winkie Posted August 3, 2023 Share Posted August 3, 2023 On 20/07/2023 at 19:28, dugsbody said: 🤣 I genuinely sometimes wonder if a lot of the "brexiters" here are fake to give the rest of them a bad name. The material just feels a little too perfect sometimes. ......brexiters I have met on the whole are embarrassed about voting for it......they would prefer not talk about it. Got had? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dweller Posted August 3, 2023 Share Posted August 3, 2023 2 hours ago, Dweller said: Delayed again! Eventually someone is going to have to admit that being out of the SM /CU is never going to work. https://www.proactiveinvestors.co.uk/companies/news/1022505/brexit-border-plans-face-new-delay-as-ministers-mull-inflation-1022505.html Brexit border plans face new delay as ministers mull inflation FFS IT'S CALLED LEAVING THE EU ITS WHAT YOU VOTED FOR ! https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-uk-eu-trade-imports-b2379743.html Former Brexit minister Sir Jacob Rees-Mogg described the memos as a “storm in a teacup” but restated his objections to the checks themselves. “I don’t think we should be imposing these controls at all,” he told The Independent. “I managed when I was Brexit opportunities minister to delay them because they purely impose costs on British consumers for no real advantage. “It seems to me to be a protectionist measure designed to make trade more difficult, and not in the interests of the UK economy. “I wouldn’t bother with these checks, they’re pointless, and in an inflationary time, a cost to British consumers we could do without.” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msi Posted August 3, 2023 Share Posted August 3, 2023 1 minute ago, Dweller said: FFS IT'S CALLED LEAVING THE EU ITS WHAT YOU VOTED FOR ! https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-uk-eu-trade-imports-b2379743.html Former Brexit minister Sir Jacob Rees-Mogg described the memos as a “storm in a teacup” but restated his objections to the checks themselves. “It seems to me to be a protectionist measure designed to make trade more difficult, and not in the interests of the UK economy. FFS does he not hear himself ?.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confusion of VIs Posted August 3, 2023 Author Share Posted August 3, 2023 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Dweller said: FFS IT'S CALLED LEAVING THE EU ITS WHAT YOU VOTED FOR ! https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-uk-eu-trade-imports-b2379743.html Former Brexit minister Sir Jacob Rees-Mogg described the memos as a “storm in a teacup” but restated his objections to the checks themselves. “I don’t think we should be imposing these controls at all,” he told The Independent. “I managed when I was Brexit opportunities minister to delay them because they purely impose costs on British consumers for no real advantage. “It seems to me to be a protectionist measure designed to make trade more difficult, and not in the interests of the UK economy. “I wouldn’t bother with these checks, they’re pointless, and in an inflationary time, a cost to British consumers we could do without.” Another day brings another Brexit failure. Does Mogg not know that these checks are required by the Brexiteers beloved WTO. You can get away with treating countries differently for a while but eventually there will be a court case and we will be told to either implement them or allow goods from anywhere in the world to enter the UK without checks. Still it will be a non issue if Labour win the GE as they have said they will agree to maintain alignment with EU standards, meaning there will be no need for the checks. Huggy will be along in a minute to explain why this is a Brexit bonus and all part of the plan for taking back control, followed by kzb with a response that demonstrate that this all goes way over his head. Edited August 3, 2023 by Confusion of VIs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msi Posted August 3, 2023 Share Posted August 3, 2023 19 minutes ago, Confusion of VIs said: Another day brings another Brexit failure. Still it will be a non issue if Labour win the GE as they have said they will agree to maintain alignment with EU standards, meaning there will be no need for the checks. You mean one party is starting to be pragmatic with the sh*t show it's been dealt with? That will never do Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winkie Posted August 3, 2023 Share Posted August 3, 2023 Inflation lower in Europe.....food prices not rising fast like it is here, there is not a shortage of workers, house prices are more affordable to buy for those on average earnings, debt is cheaper, rents are protected,communities are strong, people are generally happier......only my own observations, that doesn't mean all people are having a good time, they are not.....there is no perfection, but we have made a bad thing worse, made things much worse than they could have been..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
debtlessmanc Posted August 3, 2023 Share Posted August 3, 2023 3 hours ago, dugsbody said: (I'm not even bothering to address your usual English supremacist views that the UK is special for migrants). its simple, we speak english, no other specialness needed... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spyguy Posted August 3, 2023 Share Posted August 3, 2023 59 minutes ago, debtlessmanc said: its simple, we speak english, no other specialness needed... Well, we've a relatively open mind and dont mind giving new thigns and foreng people a go. Despite what people might think, conntinental Eruope is very anally provenicial. https://www.lemonde.fr/en/pixels/article/2023/07/14/european-commission-rejects-french-demand-to-reconsider-american-hire-to-key-eu-post_6053016_13.html European Commission rejects French demand to reconsider American hire to key EU post The French government on Thursday asked the Commission to rethink the hiring of US economics expert Fiona Scott Morton to such a sensitive position, saying it raised conflict-of-interest risks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thecrashingisles Posted August 3, 2023 Share Posted August 3, 2023 2 hours ago, Confusion of VIs said: Another day brings another Brexit failure. Does Mogg not know that these checks are required by the Brexiteers beloved WTO. You can get away with treating countries differently for a while but eventually there will be a court case and we will be told to either implement them or allow goods from anywhere in the world to enter the UK without checks. Still it will be a non issue if Labour win the GE as they have said they will agree to maintain alignment with EU standards, meaning there will be no need for the checks. Huggy will be along in a minute to explain why this is a Brexit bonus and all part of the plan for taking back control, followed by kzb with a response that demonstrate that this all goes way over his head. Who do you think is going to bring a WTO case against us? It's a completely fictitious scenario. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thecrashingisles Posted August 3, 2023 Share Posted August 3, 2023 1 hour ago, winkie said: Inflation lower in Europe.....food prices not rising fast like it is here, there is not a shortage of workers, house prices are more affordable to buy for those on average earnings, debt is cheaper, rents are protected,communities are strong, people are generally happier......only my own observations, that doesn't mean all people are having a good time, they are not.....there is no perfection, but we have made a bad thing worse, made things much worse than they could have been..... When was the last time you were "in Europe" in order to make these observations? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yodigo Posted August 3, 2023 Share Posted August 3, 2023 3 hours ago, winkie said: Inflation lower in Europe.....food prices not rising fast like it is here, there is not a shortage of workers, house prices are more affordable to buy for those on average earnings, debt is cheaper, rents are protected,communities are strong, people are generally happier......only my own observations, that doesn't mean all people are having a good time, they are not.....there is no perfection, but we have made a bad thing worse, made things much worse than they could have been..... la la land.. when you wake up... or go and live in said EU. Then you'll get the real picture. As for houses, cheap ones there are, and if I show you a few then you can tell me (1) how you'll get to a decent paying job (2) how you'll cope with the neighbour's tv and dog noise (3) if in a city, the absolute grotty area you'll be in Enough workers? Not enough jobs more like. Living costs, here's a starter for 10 https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/thousands-protest-portugal-over-cost-of-living-crisis-2023-02-25/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confusion of VIs Posted August 3, 2023 Author Share Posted August 3, 2023 18 minutes ago, yodigo said: la la land.. when you wake up... or go and live in said EU. Then you'll get the real picture. As for houses, cheap ones there are, and if I show you a few then you can tell me (1) how you'll get to a decent paying job (2) how you'll cope with the neighbour's tv and dog noise (3) if in a city, the absolute grotty area you'll be in Enough workers? Not enough jobs more like. Living costs, here's a starter for 10 https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/thousands-protest-portugal-over-cost-of-living-crisis-2023-02-25/ I am spending around half my working time in the EU (outside Berlin), it's a very nice place to live. Each time I come back it is a bit depressing to see how relative living standards are falling here. This is despite Germany having to deal with the massive impact of the loss of cheap energy from Russia. Lisbon is a victim of its own success, lots of high paying tech jobs and it being a popular location for digital nomads is pricing the locals out of parts of the city. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confusion of VIs Posted August 3, 2023 Author Share Posted August 3, 2023 2 hours ago, thecrashingisles said: Who do you think is going to bring a WTO case against us? It's a completely fictitious scenario. Any large company that thinks it is losing market share to unchecked EU good could trigger one. Do you think not being able to enforce standards on our own border is a sustainable position or even a good look. NB As last year's random customs check showed we are already the go to dumping ground for substandard or unsaleable foods. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob8 Posted August 3, 2023 Share Posted August 3, 2023 6 minutes ago, Confusion of VIs said: I am spending around half my working time in the EU (outside Berlin), it's a very nice place to live. Each time I come back it is a bit depressing to see how relative living standards are falling here. This is despite Germany having to deal with the massive impact of the loss of cheap energy from Russia. Lisbon is a victim of its own success, lots of high paying tech jobs and it being a popular location for digital nomads is pricing the locals out of parts of the city. I live in Denmark and the feeling is stronger. To a certain extent, it is a false argument. China is per head poorer than the EU and that was the great prize to associate with in 2016. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winkie Posted August 3, 2023 Share Posted August 3, 2023 Everyone I know that can is applying or considering applying for a European passport.....why would they want to do that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winkie Posted August 3, 2023 Share Posted August 3, 2023 2 hours ago, thecrashingisles said: When was the last time you were "in Europe" in order to make these observations? Last week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winkie Posted August 3, 2023 Share Posted August 3, 2023 49 minutes ago, yodigo said: la la land.. when you wake up... or go and live in said EU. Then you'll get the real picture. As for houses, cheap ones there are, and if I show you a few then you can tell me (1) how you'll get to a decent paying job (2) how you'll cope with the neighbour's tv and dog noise (3) if in a city, the absolute grotty area you'll be in Enough workers? Not enough jobs more like. Living costs, here's a starter for 10 https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/thousands-protest-portugal-over-cost-of-living-crisis-2023-02-25/ I have no intention of living there, I just like the freedom to move and do business easily, like we used to do......why the hostile environment, why do we think cutting ourselves off, not being at the table will make life easier for us.....we have a lot of history with Europe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thecrashingisles Posted August 3, 2023 Share Posted August 3, 2023 23 minutes ago, Confusion of VIs said: Any large company that thinks it is losing market share to unchecked EU good could trigger one. Do you think not being able to enforce standards on our own border is a sustainable position or even a good look. You're really quite ignorant. WTO disputes are only interstate. https://www.wto.org/english/tratop_e/dispu_e/disp_settlement_cbt_e/c1s4p1_e.htm Quote Since only WTO Member governments can bring disputes, it follows that private individuals or companies do not have direct access to the dispute settlement system, even if they may often be the ones (as exporters or importers) most directly and adversely affected by the measures allegedly violating the WTO Agreement. The same is true of other non-governmental organizations with a general interest in a matter before the dispute settlement system (which are often referred to as NGOs). They, too, cannot initiate WTO dispute settlement proceedings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confusion of VIs Posted August 3, 2023 Author Share Posted August 3, 2023 47 minutes ago, thecrashingisles said: You're really quite ignorant. WTO disputes are only interstate. https://www.wto.org/english/tratop_e/dispu_e/disp_settlement_cbt_e/c1s4p1_e.htm That's why I used the word "trigger". A complaint by a national company is usually the trigger for a state getting involved. Clearly I did not dumb it down enough for you to understand but that's your problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confusion of VIs Posted August 3, 2023 Author Share Posted August 3, 2023 4 hours ago, debtlessmanc said: its simple, we speak english, no other specialness needed... No Id cards is another bit of specialness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonb2 Posted August 3, 2023 Share Posted August 3, 2023 4 hours ago, spyguy said: Well, we've a relatively open mind and dont mind giving new thigns and foreng people a go. Despite what people might think, conntinental Eruope is very anally provenicial. https://www.lemonde.fr/en/pixels/article/2023/07/14/european-commission-rejects-french-demand-to-reconsider-american-hire-to-key-eu-post_6053016_13.html European Commission rejects French demand to reconsider American hire to key EU post The French government on Thursday asked the Commission to rethink the hiring of US economics expert Fiona Scott Morton to such a sensitive position, saying it raised conflict-of-interest risks. Joe Biden has snubbed Britain and threatened the special relationship between the US and UK by blocking Ben Wallace’s bid to become Nato secretary-general, government sources claim. The UK defence secretary had been among the favourites to succeed Jens Stoltenberg, whose tenure as chief of the Western military alliance is due to end in September after nine years at the helm. But a “visibly deflated” Wallace told The Economist this week that “it’s not going to happen” – and some are blaming the US president. Allies of Wallace reportedly told The Telegraph that they believed Biden had torpedoed his bid, and potentially damaged relations between the two allies, by refusing to endorse him. Very anally retentive those Yanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spyguy Posted August 3, 2023 Share Posted August 3, 2023 3 minutes ago, jonb2 said: Joe Biden has snubbed Britain and threatened the special relationship between the US and UK by blocking Ben Wallace’s bid to become Nato secretary-general, government sources claim. The UK defence secretary had been among the favourites to succeed Jens Stoltenberg, whose tenure as chief of the Western military alliance is due to end in September after nine years at the helm. But a “visibly deflated” Wallace told The Economist this week that “it’s not going to happen” – and some are blaming the US president. Allies of Wallace reportedly told The Telegraph that they believed Biden had torpedoed his bid, and potentially damaged relations between the two allies, by refusing to endorse him. Very anally retentive those Yanks. Thats just speculation. The French rejection of the US economists is on record. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonb2 Posted August 3, 2023 Share Posted August 3, 2023 17 minutes ago, spyguy said: Thats just speculation. The French rejection of the US economists is on record. I think from Biden's comment, it's fairly clear how he felt. Earlier this month, Biden was asked whether “in the light of the warm words right now about UK/US defence collaboration, particularly in Ukraine”, he thought “it is time for the first UK Nato Secretary General in two decades”. The US president replied: “Maybe, that remains to be seen,” said Sky News. I suspect Wallis would have had more of a chance if we were still in the EU - as Macron and others wanted someone from an EU country. Who needs a figure from some tiny small backwater country with no friends after all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenelby Posted August 3, 2023 Share Posted August 3, 2023 22 minutes ago, jonb2 said: I suspect Wallis would have had more of a chance if we were still in the EU - as Macron and others wanted someone from an EU country. Who needs a figure from some tiny small backwater country with no friends after all. The U.K. is the highest spending nation in NATO after the US so definitely not a backwater. https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/nato-spending-by-country Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonb2 Posted August 3, 2023 Share Posted August 3, 2023 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Lenelby said: The U.K. is the highest spending nation in NATO after the US so definitely not a backwater. https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/nato-spending-by-country That might be true. But so what? Perception is greater than truth. From the world's POV, it's slipping into the fog of irrelevance thanks to its crap government and Brexit. What friends do we have now? We're a laughing stock. Brexit is turning Britain into a laughing stock, says Siemens UK boss | Brexit | The Guardian https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/apr/01/brexit-britain-siemens-uk-eu 'UK is an international laughing stock': James O'Brien reacts to Brexit latest - LBC https://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/james-obrien/uk-is-an-international-laughing-stock-james-obrien-reacts-to-brexit-latest/ What British politics looks like to the rest of the world - The Face https://theface.com/society/what-british-politics-looks-like-to-rest-world-international-reputation-laughing-stock-liz-truss-rishi-sunak Brexit deal chaos has made UK 'laughing stock of the world’ | The National https://www.thenational.scot/news/18703911.brexit-deal-chaos-made-uk-laughing-stock-world/ Opinion: Brexit has made us a laughing stock around the world - Farmers Weekly https://www.fwi.co.uk/news/opinion-brexit-has-made-us-a-laughing-stock-around-the-world UK is a 'laughing stock' after political turmoil of 2022, says Speaker Sir Lindsay Hoyle https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/uk-laughing-stock-political-turmoil-2022-speaker-sir-lindsay-hoyle-2051518 The National on Twitter: "Today's front page: Brexit Britain now a "laughing stock around the world" + secret UK Government poll puts Yes vote at 56% https://t.co/xRYEG6IJuw" / X Edited August 3, 2023 by jonb2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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