Will Russia invade Ukraine and what happens if it escalates with NATO/US getting involved

[MonsieurCopperCrutch]

Strange how we did not hear a peep out of the comrade clowns @rollover, @Staffsknot, and @Lucky Larry when their army of vile orcs castrated an unarmed Ukranian POW.

Funny that, eh?

[Si1]

10 minutes ago, Peter Hun said:

No it was posted as "the result of a 120mm mortar" on Ukrainian Telegram.

Didn't look like it to me. It was posted again with the second video linking the two. And now the story was different.

Some Ukrainians are calling it Russian propaganda. Better than previous attempts and with drone evidence too, Lucky to have a red toy car and distinctive clothing  clue to match up the two videos.

I have no opinion, but making a judgement that this was a warcrime is ridiculous because there is no evidence of who shot them. Russian barrier troops exist.

It's not the first video of Russians getting shot for perfidious actions, btw.

 

There was that video where a surrendering Russian pulled a grenade, and in that situation the UAF forces managed to take the rest of them as POWs iirc. Looked messy all the same.

If there could be a warcrime then it needs investigating for the sakes of the dead people and also for the long term moral integrity of Ukraine.

[MonsieurCopperCrutch]

Gotta be impressed with the quality of Ukranian dugouts while the orc army live in holes.

 

[pig]

1 hour ago, Staffsknot said:

Its always the same individuals though and that's why I stick them on ignore.

I would venture reading the DM as factual content is usually first fail.

Well no I guess what I'm suggesting is that getting distracted by DMs take on the truth is the first fail. My point is its not the content its where attention is directed.

I can spend all day picking apart DM articles that are a total clusterfeck of half lies and spin - or stand back and see the real problem is that they've got some story connected to say, benefit scroungers on 5 pages of a single edition.

The 'factual content' or lack of, is less than half the problem. Maybe Bob from Sheffield  did actually pretend he had one leg. Maybe this was made up by the DM. It does not matter from the perspective of weapons grade 'psi-ops' whose objective is  'look at this not that'. 

As a matter of principle I do take your general point about having a bit of maturity over the facts of individual incidents, not least because taking war crimes seriously will do more to protect countries like Ukraine than undermine them.

 

 

[Si1]

35 minutes ago, Lucky Larry said:

I literally only had to go back 2 previous posts 

Yay for war , yay for big bombs that go boom , yay for what they do 

cheerleading more death and destruction from behind your keyboard , pathetic. 

You actually had no good answer did you you sad man. My peaceful solution is for Russia to leave Ukraine. My peaceful solution prior to February was for Russia not to enter Ukraine. Your warmongering solution is to invite Russian atrocities.

Slava Ukraini.

[shlomo]

Former President Trump, and others in the US including some Democrats as well as Republicans, have criticized continued US support for Ukraine in its war with Russia. They have called for military and financial support to Ukraine to be cut, even ended. They downplay the risk from Russia and argue that the money should be spent at home. 

Yet from numerous perspectives, when viewed from a bang-per-buck perspective, US and Western support for Ukraine is an incredibly cost-effective investment.  

Altogether, the Biden administration received Congressional approval for $40bn in aid for Ukraine for 2022 and has requested an additional $37.7bn for 2022. More than half of this aid has been earmarked for defense.  

These sums pale into insignificance when set against a total US defense budget of $715bn for 2022. The assistance represents 5.6% of total US defense spending. But Russia is a primary adversary of the US, a top tier rival not too far behind China, its number one strategic challenger. In cold, geopolitical terms, this war provides a prime opportunity for the US to erode and degrade Russia’s conventional defense capability, with no boots on the ground and little risk to US lives.  

The Ukrainian armed forces have already killed or wounded upwards of 100,000 Russian troops, half its original fighting force; there have been almost 8,000 confirmed losses of armored vehicles including thousands of tanks, thousands of APCs, artillery pieces, hundreds of fixed and rotary wing aircraft, and numerous naval vessels. US spending of 5.6% of its defense budget to destroy nearly half of Russia’s conventional military capability seems like an absolutely incredible investment. If we divide out the US defense budget to the threats it faces, Russia would perhaps be of the order of $100bn-150bn in spend-to-threat. So spending just $40bn a year, erodes a threat value of $100-150bn, a two-to-three time return.  

The US military might reasonably wish Russia to continue deploying military forces for Ukraine to destroy.  

Meanwhile, replacing destroyed kit, and keeping up with the new arms race that it has now triggered with the West will surely end up bankrupting the Russian economy; especially an economy subject to aggressive Western sanctions. How can Russia possibly hope to win an arms race when the combined GDP of the West is $40 trillion, and its defense spending amounting to 2% of GDP totals well in excess of $1 trillion when the disproportionate US defense contribution is considered? Russia’s total GDP is only $1.8 trillion. Vladimir Putin will have to divert spending from consumption to defense, risking social and political unrest over the medium term, and a real and soon-to-be present danger to his regime. Just imagine how much more of a bargain Western military aid will be if it ultimately brings positive regime change in Russia. 

Second, the war has served to destroy the myth that Russian military technology is somehow comparable to that of the US and West. Remember that Ukraine is using only upgraded second generation US technology but is consistently beating whatever Russia’s military can deploy. Wars are shop windows for defense manufacturers; any buyer in their right mind will want the technology made by the winner. Putin’s misjudgment has merely provided a fantastic marketing opportunity for its Western competitors.  

[MonsieurCopperCrutch]

Orc tents.

Winter is here!!!

 

[Lucky Larry]

1 hour ago, Si1 said:

You actually had no good answer did you you sad man. My peaceful solution is for Russia to leave Ukraine. My peaceful solution prior to February was for Russia not to enter Ukraine. Your warmongering solution is to invite Russian atrocities.

Slava Ukraini.

You were cheering on getting big bombs that go boom , some peaceful solution , do you think all of them are aimed at Russian Generals ?  You don't give a toss how many die , it's all a game to silly wee boys like you cheering it on from your bedroom . There are very few of us on here that have called for the immediate cessation of violence and for talks to take place , you are not one of them . Sad and pathetic little man that has shown his utter ignorance of the realities of war 

[Confusion of VIs]

10 minutes ago, Lucky Larry said:

You were cheering on getting big bombs that go boom , some peaceful solution , do you think all of them are aimed at Russian Generals ?  You don't give a toss how many die , it's all a game to silly wee boys like you cheering it on from your bedroom . There are very few of us on here that have called for the immediate cessation of violence and for talks to take place , you are not one of them . Sad and pathetic little man that has shown his utter ignorance of the realities of war 

Such a dishonest post.

[Staffsknot]

2 hours ago, Si1 said:

They're precision weapons, able to destroy logistics and command centres. Are the Russian generals innocent conscripts now?

Stop interacting with attention seeking whatabouttery spouters you're just going to waste time. He's an irrelevance trying to be relevant.

Let him rail into obscurity and do yourself a favour.

[Staffsknot]

1 hour ago, pig said:

Well no I guess what I'm suggesting is that getting distracted by DMs take on the truth is the first fail. My point is its not the content its where attention is directed.

I can spend all day picking apart DM articles that are a total clusterfeck of half lies and spin - or stand back and see the real problem is that they've got some story connected to say, benefit scroungers on 5 pages of a single edition.

The 'factual content' or lack of, is less than half the problem. Maybe Bob from Sheffield  did actually pretend he had one leg. Maybe this was made up by the DM. It does not matter from the perspective of weapons grade 'psi-ops' whose objective is  'look at this not that'. 

As a matter of principle I do take your general point about having a bit of maturity over the facts of individual incidents, not least because taking war crimes seriously will do more to protect countries like Ukraine than undermine them.

 

 

And yours is a mature stance also.

Yes Russia is doing the look at the puppets routine, but you kill it by investigating, not coming up with spurious reasons as many have done - pulling the excuses routine gives them what they want too.

[Staffsknot]

25 minutes ago, Confusion of VIs said:

Such a dishonest post.

Again what are you gaining from not ignoring Larry... he's gaining attention which is all he craves.

He's spent pages going on and on about evils of the West, conspiracies and false flag talk.

If he wants peace he'd be spending every post calling for that. Instead it was evil West as Kyiv was attacked, West is worse as war crimes emerged and yadda yadda yadda.

So why are you engaging with someone so blatantly uninterested in engaging with you in a genuine manner?

Calling them out sometimes just gives them the attention they crave to go on and on again and drag things off course.

[pig]

1 hour ago, Lucky Larry said:

You were cheering on getting big bombs that go boom , some peaceful solution , do you think all of them are aimed at Russian Generals ?  You don't give a toss how many die , it's all a game to silly wee boys like you cheering it on from your bedroom . There are very few of us on here that have called for the immediate cessation of violence and for talks to take place , you are not one of them . Sad and pathetic little man that has shown his utter ignorance of the realities of war 

Absolutely - there are far too many on here who, like you, are apologists for the expression of power through genocidal wars.

[Si1]

@Staffsknot @MonsieurCopperCrutch

 

 

[Lucky Larry]

3 hours ago, Si1 said:

They're precision weapons, able to destroy logistics and command centres.

And Polish farmers , do we get a yay for that ? 

[Lucky Larry]

22 minutes ago, pig said:

Absolutely - there are far too many on here who, like you, are apologists for the expression of power through genocidal wars.

I'm practically the only person on here that has condemned all wars , you on the other hand ...........

[Lucky Larry]

49 minutes ago, Staffsknot said:

Again what are you gaining from not ignoring Larry...

You've spent your last half a dozen posts mentioning me begging others not to engage , you really don't like me pointing out the facts about your glorious Empire and what it's built on  do you .

[MonsieurCopperCrutch]

1 hour ago, Si1 said:

@Staffsknot @MonsieurCopperCrutch

 

 

Those brave Ukrainian heros are in the clear. Yes let's have a proper investigation into it but I guarantee you 100% that they will be exonerated. They followed procedure for taking in surrendering forces of a much larger size. It's just the orc who has watched too many Rambo movies at home screwed it up for his own clown comrades and sadly the unfortunate Ukranian hero.

Remember: not one Russian had been fully searched, cuffed, and surendered until Rambo popped up guns blazing. That's them cold hard facts comrade clown @Staffsknot likes to ignore in his 'not watching the footage' assessment.

[pig]

1 hour ago, Lucky Larry said:

I'm practically the only person on here that has condemned all wars , you on the other hand ...........

Lol who are you trying to kid ? Yourself perhaps ?

Condemn whatever war you like - its clearly just a deeply messed up means of being an apologist for this genocidal war. 

[Peter Hun]

7 hours ago, pig said:

Lol who are you trying to kid ? Yourself perhaps ?

Condemn whatever war you like - its clearly just a deeply messed up means of being an apologist for this genocidal war. 

I've blocked the ***hole.

But let me guess.. he's not calling for the Russians to leave occupied Ukraine, is he?

[Si1]

1 hour ago, Peter Hun said:

I've blocked the ***hole.

But let me guess.. he's not calling for the Russians to leave occupied Ukraine, is he?

I think so yes. The continuation of the war is Ukraine's fault apparently. Ukraine have to stop fighting. But Russia don't have to stop fighting. Apparently they can't help it or something 

[jonb2]

14 hours ago, shlomo said:

Former President Trump, and others in the US including some Democrats as well as Republicans, have criticized continued US support for Ukraine in its war with Russia. They have called for military and financial support to Ukraine to be cut, even ended. They downplay the risk from Russia and argue that the money should be spent at home. 

Yet from numerous perspectives, when viewed from a bang-per-buck perspective, US and Western support for Ukraine is an incredibly cost-effective investment.  

Altogether, the Biden administration received Congressional approval for $40bn in aid for Ukraine for 2022 and has requested an additional $37.7bn for 2022. More than half of this aid has been earmarked for defense.  

These sums pale into insignificance when set against a total US defense budget of $715bn for 2022. The assistance represents 5.6% of total US defense spending. But Russia is a primary adversary of the US, a top tier rival not too far behind China, its number one strategic challenger. In cold, geopolitical terms, this war provides a prime opportunity for the US to erode and degrade Russia’s conventional defense capability, with no boots on the ground and little risk to US lives.  

The Ukrainian armed forces have already killed or wounded upwards of 100,000 Russian troops, half its original fighting force; there have been almost 8,000 confirmed losses of armored vehicles including thousands of tanks, thousands of APCs, artillery pieces, hundreds of fixed and rotary wing aircraft, and numerous naval vessels. US spending of 5.6% of its defense budget to destroy nearly half of Russia’s conventional military capability seems like an absolutely incredible investment. If we divide out the US defense budget to the threats it faces, Russia would perhaps be of the order of $100bn-150bn in spend-to-threat. So spending just $40bn a year, erodes a threat value of $100-150bn, a two-to-three time return.  

The US military might reasonably wish Russia to continue deploying military forces for Ukraine to destroy.  

Meanwhile, replacing destroyed kit, and keeping up with the new arms race that it has now triggered with the West will surely end up bankrupting the Russian economy; especially an economy subject to aggressive Western sanctions. How can Russia possibly hope to win an arms race when the combined GDP of the West is $40 trillion, and its defense spending amounting to 2% of GDP totals well in excess of $1 trillion when the disproportionate US defense contribution is considered? Russia’s total GDP is only $1.8 trillion. Vladimir Putin will have to divert spending from consumption to defense, risking social and political unrest over the medium term, and a real and soon-to-be present danger to his regime. Just imagine how much more of a bargain Western military aid will be if it ultimately brings positive regime change in Russia. 

Second, the war has served to destroy the myth that Russian military technology is somehow comparable to that of the US and West. Remember that Ukraine is using only upgraded second generation US technology but is consistently beating whatever Russia’s military can deploy. Wars are shop windows for defense manufacturers; any buyer in their right mind will want the technology made by the winner. Putin’s misjudgment has merely provided a fantastic marketing opportunity for its Western competitors.  

This is an interesting post Shlomo. Thank you.

Do you have a link for the source?

[Si1]

9 minutes ago, jonb2 said:

This is an interesting post Shlomo. Thank you.

Do you have a link for the source?

https://letmegooglethat.com/?q="Former+President+Trump%2C+and+others+in+the+US+including+some+Democrats+as+well+as+Republicans%2C+have+criticized+continued+US+support+for+Ukraine+in+its+war+with+Russia."

[jonb2]

4 minutes ago, Si1 said:

https://letmegooglethat.com/?q="Former+President+Trump%2C+and+others+in+the+US+including+some+Democrats+as+well+as+Republicans%2C+have+criticized+continued+US+support+for+Ukraine+in+its+war+with+Russia."

Thanks Si1. I've found it. But wondered if it was syndicated.

It's an interesting take I've been thinking about for a while. This lot must be more than a little bothered by their purchases.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1296249/russia-arms-exports-by-country/

 

 

[Si1]

39 minutes ago, jonb2 said:

Thanks Si1. I've found it. But wondered if it was syndicated.

It's an interesting take I've been thinking about for a while. This lot must be more than a little bothered by their purchases.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1296249/russia-arms-exports-by-country/

 

 

Fair enough dude.