Cummings

[dugsbody]

34 minutes ago, Trump Invective said:

Nowt is gonna change - there's more news tomorrow, Johnson meeting Viktor Orban on Friday...

Correct, nothing will change. Somehow our public servants have made us the servants and themselves the masters.

[NoHPCinTheUK]

Glad to hear we have Bill Gates advising the advisor who advises the Prime Minister. 

[Gigantic Purple Slug]

58 minutes ago, zugzwang said:

 

Govt has to be held account for what it does. Interrogating those responsible is part of the democratic process, without that provision all manner of wrongdoings would be swept under the carpet. The suggestion in passing that Hancock and Johnson's serial dishonesty might make them liable for prosecution is simply extraordinary!

I would say yes and no. Yes in the respect that the government does have to be held accountable, and no in the respect that if that accountability constrains the way they have to operate so badly that they can't actually function. There is a reasonable balance between the two objectives.

I think that the idea of "priviliged" conversation like you may have in other areas is difficult. In the respect that I would view it as in the public interest to know for example if a politician was exhibiting consistently inappropriate behaviour towards individuals for example.

I think public scrutiny is good, but it has to be done in the correct way and in the correct format. All this stuff to me would be better handled in a proper public enquiry (which will happen eventually) where all parties get a chance to put their viewpoints across and answer questions. In some respects I see advance discussion on covid strategy as devaluing the impact of any forthcoming public enquiry. it basically gives the government a dry run to prepare for any tough questions they may face long in advance.

[Bruce Banner]

1 hour ago, Bruce Banner said:

I can't see how he can survive this, but Priti Patel is still there so maybe he will.

Breaking news: PMs spokesperson says that BJ has full confidence in Hancock 🤣.

[Timbuk3]

2 hours ago, MonsieurCopperCrutch said:

Brexshiteer rats turning on each other. Glorious viewing. 

Agree, it is a bit like this in Westminster now

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/australasia/australia-mouse-plague-bed-biting-b1854070.html

[Timbuk3]

2 hours ago, TheCountOfNowhere said:

https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSS8N2MQ095

 

UK worried about bond markets turning against government in 2020 - Cummings

 

This fella's trying to bring them all down.

 

Brilliant.

He knows their weak spots.  I wonder if they have wargamed a run on the pound, like Labour did an got pilloried for doing so in the Right wing press.  I bet they haven't got a plan for that happening either.

[yelims]

7 minutes ago, Gigantic Purple Slug said:

I would say yes and no. Yes in the respect that the government does have to be held accountable, and no in the respect that if that accountability constrains the way they have to operate so badly that they can't actually function. There is a reasonable balance between the two objectives.

I think that the idea of "priviliged" conversation like you may have in other areas is difficult. In the respect that I would view it as in the public interest to know for example if a politician was exhibiting consistently inappropriate behaviour towards individuals for example.

I think public scrutiny is good, but it has to be done in the correct way and in the correct format. All this stuff to me would be better handled in a proper public enquiry (which will happen eventually) where all parties get a chance to put their viewpoints across and answer questions. In some respects I see advance discussion on covid strategy as devaluing the impact of any forthcoming public enquiry. it basically gives the government a dry run to prepare for any tough questions they may face long in advance.

Uks problem is that the cabinet is a dictatorship, all checks and balances are non existent or been steamrolled over (Cummings drove that steamroller too)

 

I said it before uks political system is a joke and one would really need to stretch definition of democracy and squint really hard

 

and of course you are a Brexiteer who made the problems worse (Henry 8 powers, no rights to protest etc)

[Gigantic Purple Slug]

13 minutes ago, yelims said:

Uks problem is that the cabinet is a dictatorship, all checks and balances are non existent or been steamrolled over (Cummings drove that steamroller too)

 

I said it before uks political system is a joke and one would really need to stretch definition of democracy and squint really hard

 

and of course you are a Brexiteer who made the problems worse (Henry 8 powers, no rights to protest etc)

Well if the UK isn't run by the cabinet who should it be run by ?

I think dictatorship implies a single person (the dictator) not a group of 20 people.

I don't think what is presented at the moment gives the impression of a dictatorship. You can tell that by the large numbers of people that are involved in the discussions (advisors etc). Agreeing and disagreeing with other about strategy.

Ultimately one person has to make the decision though (that person being democratically elected), unless there is some reason why it needs to go for a vote in parliament.

[MonsieurCopperCrutch]

8 minutes ago, Gigantic Purple Slug said:

Well if the UK isn't run by the cabinet who should it be run by ?

I think dictatorship implies a single person (the dictator) not a group of 20 people.

I don't think what is presented at the moment gives the impression of a dictatorship. You can tell that by the large numbers of people that are involved in the discussions (advisors etc). Agreeing and disagreeing with other about strategy.

Ultimately one person has to make the decision though (that person being democratically elected), unless there is some reason why it needs to go for a vote in parliament.

[MancTom]

1 hour ago, Bruce Banner said:

I can't see how he can survive this, but Priti Patel is still there so maybe he will.

I can. As always the minister simply refuses to resign because they have absolutely no shame, Boris declines to sack him and voters keep loving Boris.

Edited May 26, 2021 by MancTom

[MancTom]

39 minutes ago, Gigantic Purple Slug said:

I would say yes and no. Yes in the respect that the government does have to be held accountable, and no in the respect that if that accountability constrains the way they have to operate so badly that they can't actually function. There is a reasonable balance between the two objectives.

I think that the idea of "priviliged" conversation like you may have in other areas is difficult. In the respect that I would view it as in the public interest to know for example if a politician was exhibiting consistently inappropriate behaviour towards individuals for example.

I think public scrutiny is good, but it has to be done in the correct way and in the correct format. All this stuff to me would be better handled in a proper public enquiry (which will happen eventually) where all parties get a chance to put their viewpoints across and answer questions. In some respects I see advance discussion on covid strategy as devaluing the impact of any forthcoming public enquiry. it basically gives the government a dry run to prepare for any tough questions they may face long in advance.

Official enquiry is a waste of time - it will be constrained such that no ministers nor senior civil servants come out looking bad. Much better to see Cummings reveal all - I look forward to seeing the WhatsApp messages being released and so on which will corroborate at least some of his accusations.

[Bruce Banner]

2 minutes ago, MancTom said:

Official enquiry is a waste of time - it will be constrained such that no ministers nor senior civil servants come out looking bad. Much better to see Cummings reveal all - I look forward to seeing the WhatsApp messages being released and so on which will corroborate at least some of his accusations.

Hopefully after they've been categorically denied.

[MonsieurCopperCrutch]

1 hour ago, dugsbody said:

These people, Hancock and Johnson are my employees. I pay their salary to run the country on our behalf. I don't pay them to make themselves unaccountable. I don't see why anyone would want their employees to be unaccountable, unless all they're interest in is screwing over their fellow countrymen at any cost.

 

1 hour ago, dugsbody said:

Oh yes. They'll dance around and make all sorts of contrived excuses but the bottom line is that they're ok with lying to everyone as long as their side wins.

The problem with this strategy is where do you end? There will be a price to pay for people who support this stuff sooner or later. 

Cummins is part of all of that though, he's no saviour.

Some people like liars as long as it get's them what they want. They are happy to live in a country where facts and truth get roughshod over in pursuit of their aim. Brexshit and Covid have just brought this vile ugly truth out to the forefront. The Brexshit and Covid threads are littered with these government apologists happy to dance to the tune of filthy liars.

[zugzwang]

7 minutes ago, MancTom said:

I can. As always the minister simply refuses to resign because they have absolutely no shame, Boris declines to sack him and voters keep loving Boris.

Keep loving Boris the Magic Money Tree.

[Roman Roady]

1 hour ago, MonsieurCopperCrutch said:

Apparently government lying to the country is acceptable behaviour to some on here. 🙄

I think it’s acceptable to most of the electorate! A country gets the politicians they deserve.

[PeanutButter]

The commentary on twitter is quite interesting. https://twitter.com/i/events/1397133905816211456

 

[PeanutButter]

The impression I get is the Cummings (as much as I don't trust or like him) is being honest. As in, I'm not picking up signals he's lying. The body language just isn't there. If anything, he's coming across earnest. 

[Social Justice League]

lol at the "Handcock should have been sacked 10-15 times" quote.

What a sniveling f**k Handcock is.

[Bruce Banner]

10 minutes ago, PeanutButter said:

The impression I get is the Cummings (as much as I don't trust or like him) is being honest. As in, I'm not picking up signals he's lying. The body language just isn't there. If anything, he's coming across earnest. 

I agree, he looks like he's telling the truth, but so do professional conmen.

[PeanutButter]

2 minutes ago, Bruce Banner said:

I agree, he looks like he's telling the truth, but so do professional conmen.

You can tell when Boris is lying though - because noise is coming out of his mouth. Also all his physical and verbal tells.

It's fascinating to watch Cummings talk, I'm not bored yet. 

[TheCountOfNowhere]

14 minutes ago, Bruce Banner said:

I agree, he looks like he's telling the truth, but so do professional conmen.

I get the feeling he's been ****ed over and he's exacting revenge...by telling the truth.

 

 

[Roman Roady]

26 minutes ago, Social Justice League said:

lol at the "Handcock should have been sacked 10-15 times" quote.

What a sniveling f**k Handcock is.

I would have loved to have been around Handcock when that gem came out.

[MonsieurCopperCrutch]

30 minutes ago, PeanutButter said:

The impression I get is the Cummings (as much as I don't trust or like him) is being honest. As in, I'm not picking up signals he's lying. The body language just isn't there. If anything, he's coming across earnest. 

That's mine impression too. Refreshingly honest after years of lies and misinformation. 

[Bruce Banner]

4 minutes ago, TheCountOfNowhere said:

I get the feeling he's been ****ed over and he's exacting revenge...by telling the truth.

 

 

Yes, you're right, telling the truth about the workings of this government is probably the most damaging strategy.

[zugzwang]

1 minute ago, MonsieurCopperCrutch said:

That's mine impression too. Refreshingly honest after years of lies and misinformation. 

 

Totally different body language to the Barnard Castle press conference.

Basically, he's confirmed every suspicion we've ever had about this govt.

Quote

Cummings recounts chilling meeting with Helen McNamara, Deputy Cab Sec: "I've been told today that there's a whole plan for this. There is no plan. We're in huge problem. I've come through here to the PM's office to tell you that we're absolutely ******ed."