Covid in Scotland: Council tax pandemic debt 'explosion' feared

[jimmy2x3]

be the same in england but this is the scotland storu on it. 

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-55514828

[dougless]

That will be interesting because non payment of council tax is already the main reason for court orders etc.  Council funding has been hammered by the Tories and most councils are desperate for money but suddenly these same councils will end up driving many of their residents into bankruptcy.

[msi]

 

That will be interesting because non payment of council tax is already the main reason for court orders etc.  Council funding has been hammered by the Tories and most councils are desperate for money but suddenly these same councils will end up driving many of their residents into bankruptcy.

 

If it's the SNP or Labour local councils, then the Tory Westminster Government won't give a rats ass.  They'll just spin the 'spendthrift councils can't control costs line'.

Never mind Tory run Northamptonshire and Rishi Rich's spending splurge.

[stuckmojo]

 

That will be interesting because non payment of council tax is already the main reason for court orders etc.  Council funding has been hammered by the Tories and most councils are desperate for money but suddenly these same councils will end up driving many of their residents into bankruptcy.

 

This. While at the same time not providing any of the services. I saw councils all across the North destroying roads and traffic with some idiotic cycle lanes nobody will ever use. this must have cost a bomb. 

[Freki]

That would be an interesting source of data to measure job precarity as a %age of the council population. 

[Greater Fool]

 

This. While at the same time not providing any of the services. I saw councils all across the North destroying roads and traffic with some idiotic cycle lanes nobody will ever use. this must have cost a bomb. 

The government have been giving "green" funding to councils to widen cycle lanes. 

Edited January 5, 2021 by Tiger131

[MonsieurCopperCrutch]

Is it to pay for all the new cycle lanes?

[jimmy2x3]

 

That will be interesting because non payment of council tax is already the main reason for court orders etc.  Council funding has been hammered by the Tories and most councils are desperate for money but suddenly these same councils will end up driving many of their residents into bankruptcy.

 

you missed out council waste and big unwarranted pay checks and pay offs, compounded with a culture of early retirement and large pensions. its not just all about cuts in funding. 

Councils to pay for all this have been attacking their own residents with more and more punitive charges and taxes. monitising everything they can and restricting services and activities. councils have just become one large and expensive suck on the people they claim to support. i hardly ever hear a good word about them, they are also the first to pressure and send threats when they are owed money, they are extreme militant about it. 

A national debate needs done about whats gone wrong at councils but most allready know the answers and thats that a council job used to be a average type paid job within society it served  but now that seems to have switched to some of the best paid jobs in the towns they serve and with the pensions that need to be paid. And also the defferment of payments in schemes such as building schools and public buildings  that now needs paying. we can all thank gordon brown for all this. he massively increased council employee numbers and wages and the buy now pay later public building programs, this 20 years later has created the perfect money squeeze. 

 

[stuckmojo]

On 06/01/2021 at 01:08, jimmy2x3 said:

you missed out council waste and big unwarranted pay checks and pay offs, compounded with a culture of early retirement and large pensions. its not just all about cuts in funding. 

Councils to pay for all this have been attacking their own residents with more and more punitive charges and taxes. monitising everything they can and restricting services and activities. councils have just become one large and expensive suck on the people they claim to support. i hardly ever hear a good word about them, they are also the first to pressure and send threats when they are owed money, they are extreme militant about it. 

A national debate needs done about whats gone wrong at councils but most allready know the answers and thats that a council job used to be a average type paid job within society it served  but now that seems to have switched to some of the best paid jobs in the towns they serve and with the pensions that need to be paid. And also the defferment of payments in schemes such as building schools and public buildings  that now needs paying. we can all thank gordon brown for all this. he massively increased council employee numbers and wages and the buy now pay later public building programs, this 20 years later has created the perfect money squeeze. 

 

Agreed 100%

 

[NobodyInParticular]

On 1/6/2021 at 1:08 AM, jimmy2x3 said:

you missed out council waste and big unwarranted pay checks and pay offs, compounded with a culture of early retirement and large pensions. its not just all about cuts in funding. 

There are very few instances of this these days, but they make great press. 

Quote

Councils to pay for all this

No, mostly roads, social services, social, care. 

Quote

monitising everything they can and restricting services and activities.

Because social care costs have gone up much faster than funding. 

Quote

a council job used to be a average type paid job within society it served  but now that seems to have switched to some of the best paid jobs in the townsh they serve

That's because the lower paid jobs were outsourced to private companies. If you based it on a one-to-one with comparator jobs in the private sector, they pay less. 

Quote

we can all thank gordon brown for all this.

It was Major's idea. You'd have a point about Brown being too enthusiastic about it. 

Quote

he massively increased council employee numbers and wages

Actually, count and wages decreased when Brown was PM. Actually, overall, since 2005.

Quote

 

 

Edited January 12, 2021 by NobodyInParticular

[Wayward]

Also see thread linked above...councils heavily invested in retail property,  oh dear.

[Insane]

On 04/01/2021 at 11:25, stuckmojo said:

This. While at the same time not providing any of the services. I saw councils all across the North destroying roads and traffic with some idiotic cycle lanes nobody will ever use. this must have cost a bomb. 

Parts of London have been plagued with these Cycle Lanes. Two lane roads have been reduced to one lane causing massive bottle necks and parking spaces in high streets removed destroying local businesses. 

I think it was Wandsworth Council who said they were going to Rip Out a Cycle Lane that the Mayor had just had built and cost £18 million. It had caused massive bottle necks for motor cars and other motor Transport , while hardly any cycles used it. 

[coypondboy]

Both my sister and brother in law lef school at 16 with no qualifications joined the local council and 32 years later both took early redundancy with 4 weeks pay per years service at 52 with enhanced retirement kicking in at 55.  Neither did any other exams to better themselves during their working life but both ended up in senior management roles on over 50k.

I am not knocking them and pleased they are financially secure but having worked in the private sector got a degree and masters degree over working lifetime still never earned this much and made redundant 6 times with no defined benefit pension scheme and redundancy most times was bear minimum.      

How will the private sector be able to afford the pensions of these millions of public sector workers who are likely to live for 30-40 years on pensions they cannot spend later in their 80's when holidaying not so easy.

My council tax bill increase of 6% pa for the foreseeable future already has to cover these pensions and a bit for the police and fire service pensions and I have calculated that by the time I reach 80 will be £6,850 pa?

[MonsieurCopperCrutch]

10 minutes ago, coypondboy said:

Both my sister and brother in law lef school at 16 with no qualifications joined the local council and 32 years later both took early redundancy with 4 weeks pay per years service at 52 with enhanced retirement kicking in at 55.  Neither did any other exams to better themselves during their working life but both ended up in senior management roles on over 50k.

I am not knocking them and pleased they are financially secure but having worked in the private sector got a degree and masters degree over working lifetime still never earned this much and made redundant 6 times with no defined benefit pension scheme and redundancy most times was bear minimum.      

How will the private sector be able to afford the pensions of these millions of public sector workers who are likely to live for 30-40 years on pensions they cannot spend later in their 80's when holidaying not so easy.

My council tax bill increase of 6% pa for the foreseeable future already has to cover these pensions and a bit for the police and fire service pensions and I have calculated that by the time I reach 80 will be £6,850 pa?

How old are you?

[spacedin]

3 hours ago, coypondboy said:

Both my sister and brother in law lef school at 16 with no qualifications joined the local council and 32 years later both took early redundancy with 4 weeks pay per years service at 52 with enhanced retirement kicking in at 55.  Neither did any other exams to better themselves during their working life but both ended up in senior management roles on over 50k.

I am not knocking them and pleased they are financially secure but having worked in the private sector got a degree and masters degree over working lifetime still never earned this much and made redundant 6 times with no defined benefit pension scheme and redundancy most times was bear minimum.      

How will the private sector be able to afford the pensions of these millions of public sector workers who are likely to live for 30-40 years on pensions they cannot spend later in their 80's when holidaying not so easy.

My council tax bill increase of 6% pa for the foreseeable future already has to cover these pensions and a bit for the police and fire service pensions and I have calculated that by the time I reach 80 will be £6,850 pa?

I feel for you, there are a lot less of these cushy jobs about though since George Osborne 'reformed' the public sector. Moreover, some Tory councils have outsourced these jobs to corporations like Crapita. 

Council tax has been on the rise alright, although councils are not allowed to raise council tax by more than 2.99%/annum without a public rubber stamp of approval through a costly local referendum. The reason the overall bill has gone up so much is because of the added 'health and social care' element that Theresa May introduced due to increased demand on hospitals because of how the Health and Social Care Act 2012 'reformed' the health service.

Edited January 13, 2021 by spacedin
Osborne spelling

[spacedin]

4 hours ago, Insane said:

Parts of London have been plagued with these Cycle Lanes. Two lane roads have been reduced to one lane causing massive bottle necks and parking spaces in high streets removed destroying local businesses. 

I think it was Wandsworth Council who said they were going to Rip Out a Cycle Lane that the Mayor had just had built and cost £18 million. It had caused massive bottle necks for motor cars and other motor Transport , while hardly any cycles used it. 

Last time I looked at the figures recently, forgive me I've forgotten where they're published but during the pandemic vehicle journeys in London have been down and cycle journeys up and this has been mirrored throughout the country. The new lanes were meant to be a temporary measure, a response to more people working from home. To be honest, the direction of travel in London has been away from the car for years anyway. 

One thing I would mention is that the government created a new organisation called Active Travel England to oversee the rollout of permanent cycle infrastructure throughout the country and was given £2billion of funding to achieve this although I think £250million of this has already been spent on the temporary measures. 

Edited January 13, 2021 by spacedin

[Si1]

3 hours ago, MonsieurCopperCrutch said:

How old are you?

+1

It rather depends when this happened. Public sector promotions and general troughing was at obscene levels under Gordon Brown, and the redundancy and early retirement packages given in the noughties were stupidly generous. Time serving middle managers still exist in the public sector, and whilst I can't speak about that other posters relatives, the ones I know ruthlessly passive aggressively protect their interests (mostly financial) and benefits to the exclusion of providing decent service to the tax payers who pay them. In fact that's the lowest priority, if it's any priority at all. Middle management jobs, slightly under the radar, senior enough to get paid really well, not quite senior enough to see scrutiny.

 

(You get passive aggressive self serving pr1cks in private sector too, it's just that the private sector has better cost control so is less likely to tolerate them for so long, IME)

Edited January 13, 2021 by Si1

[Gbob]

6 hours ago, Insane said:

Parts of London have been plagued with these Cycle Lanes. Two lane roads have been reduced to one lane causing massive bottle necks and parking spaces in high streets removed destroying local businesses. 

I think it was Wandsworth Council who said they were going to Rip Out a Cycle Lane that the Mayor had just had built and cost £18 million. It had caused massive bottle necks for motor cars and other motor Transport , while hardly any cycles used it. 

As a cyclist, I'd be happier if they just maintained the existing roads properly instead of pratting about putting lanes in and taking them out again.  And have you ever seen those roads in towns where they pave over the road and make it look like a pavement, but its still actually a road? Fecking ridiculous.

Edited January 13, 2021 by Glenn

[spacedin]

12 minutes ago, Glenn said:

As a cyclist, I'd be happier if they just maintained the existing roads properly instead of pratting about putting lanes in and taking them out again.  And have you ever seen those roads in towns where they pave over the road and make it look like a pavement, but its still actually a road? Fecking ridiculous.

The problem is, there are a lot of people who don't cycle because of how dangerous the roads are, hence the need for decent infrastructure. Certainly if we want to see more people get out of their cars.

[Insane]

5 hours ago, Glenn said:

  And have you ever seen those roads in towns where they pave over the road and make it look like a pavement, but its still actually a road? Fecking ridiculous.

Absolute Madness yes I have.

The whole point of the Kerb and the drop down onto the road is for people both motorists and pedestrians to easily see what is road and what is pavement. Safety. 

I was in Bexleyheath Kent recently a place I do not know well and all of a sudden I thought I was driving over the pedestrian only part of the high street. Your in a situation and you slightly panic I braked , the person in the car with me who knew the area was saying no no it is ok it is road carry on , I was working out what was happening and the car behind me annoyed at me breaking started Hooting. It all adds to confusion and that is when accidents happen. 

Same thing in Guildford Surry a few years back and the person in the car with me (Brother) was not sure either and saying , yes you can drive here carry on and then oh no I am not sure if you can or not , umm yes , no , yes . It was dark and confusing. 

A few days later my brother phoned me and told me that a woman had been knocked over and killed at the exact spot where we had been trying to work out if it was road or pavement. MADNESS !!!!

[sexton]

7 hours ago, Insane said:

Absolute Madness yes I have.

The whole point of the Kerb and the drop down onto the road is for people both motorists and pedestrians to easily see what is road and what is pavement. Safety. 

I was in Bexleyheath Kent recently a place I do not know well and all of a sudden I thought I was driving over the pedestrian only part of the high street. Your in a situation and you slightly panic I braked , the person in the car with me who knew the area was saying no no it is ok it is road carry on , I was working out what was happening and the car behind me annoyed at me breaking started Hooting. It all adds to confusion and that is when accidents happen. 

Same thing in Guildford Surry a few years back and the person in the car with me (Brother) was not sure either and saying , yes you can drive here carry on and then oh no I am not sure if you can or not , umm yes , no , yes . It was dark and confusing. 

A few days later my brother phoned me and told me that a woman had been knocked over and killed at the exact spot where we had been trying to work out if it was road or pavement. MADNESS !!!!

Works in town centres in the Netherlands. People there accept that cars have no more rights than pedestrians and if a car hits someone in those areas the driver will never drive again.

[Insane]

25 minutes ago, sexton said:

Works in town centres in the Netherlands. People there accept that cars have no more rights than pedestrians and if a car hits someone in those areas the driver will never drive again.

So someone walks out in front of a moving car and the driver loses his licence for life NO THANK YOU.

Where has anyone said that cars have more rights than pedestrians or want more rights than pedestrians. Cars drive on the roads , pedestrians walk on the pavement and cross roads when it is safe to do so. In the UK until recently there was a kerb between the pavement and the road with a distinct drop down to the road , this was easy for everyone Drivers and Pedestrians to see where the road and pavement was and far safer than this crazy system where people driving along a road suddenly find themselves not knowing if they are still on a road or have driven into a pedestrian only area. 

[sexton]

10 hours ago, Insane said:

So someone walks out in front of a moving car and the driver loses his licence for life NO THANK YOU.

Where has anyone said that cars have more rights than pedestrians or want more rights than pedestrians. Cars drive on the roads , pedestrians walk on the pavement and cross roads when it is safe to do so. In the UK until recently there was a kerb between the pavement and the road with a distinct drop down to the road , this was easy for everyone Drivers and Pedestrians to see where the road and pavement was and far safer than this crazy system where people driving along a road suddenly find themselves not knowing if they are still on a road or have driven into a pedestrian only area. 

You missed the point that, in those areas, cars have to go slow enough that they can stop if someone walks in front of them.

I expect bicycles having the right of way at roundabouts would infuriate you too.

[spacedin]

11 hours ago, Insane said:

So someone walks out in front of a moving car and the driver loses his licence for life NO THANK YOU.

Where has anyone said that cars have more rights than pedestrians or want more rights than pedestrians. Cars drive on the roads , pedestrians walk on the pavement and cross roads when it is safe to do so. In the UK until recently there was a kerb between the pavement and the road with a distinct drop down to the road , this was easy for everyone Drivers and Pedestrians to see where the road and pavement was and far safer than this crazy system where people driving along a road suddenly find themselves not knowing if they are still on a road or have driven into a pedestrian only area. 

Actually pedestrians have right of way over cars on the roads and have for years. This of course doesn't include people who just jump out into the road which is pretty rare on average.

Regarding the Netherlands, at 8% they have the lowest percentage of pedestrian fatalities per total road fatalities in the whole of Europe so their strategy is working. Working to save lives, not cars of course. The EU average is 21%. The figures are from 2018.

Edited January 14, 2021 by spacedin

[Insane]

4 hours ago, sexton said:

You missed the point that, in those areas, cars have to go slow enough that they can stop if someone walks in front of them.

Well on the two occasions where I suddenly thought I had driven into a pedestrian area that caused a lot of confusion the speed limit was 30 mph still. So where these ill thought out changes have been introduced in the UK as usual they have only managed to do half the job. 

We have had pavements with kerbs and a drop down to the road even before the motor car was invented , but some smart people have decided to change this system in certain places and I cannot see any advantage to it. How would a blind person know when they are walking off the pavement and onto the road ? 

A bit like the great Smart Motorways , when someone explained them to me I thought they were talking rubbish as it is so crazy. However what I was told is true. There was a recent documentary on these and a woman on there who had killed someone said " I had never heard of a smart motorway never mind being told how to use them " another woman on there said she had no malice towards the man who killed her son as the accident was not his fault it was the fault of the smart motorway system.

I am not sure about other countries I live in the UK what I am seeing in London and around London is millions of £ being spent which has caused congestion and confusion which leads to unsafe roads and pavements , but as usual when someone or a committee of people decide that they know how best to spend other peoples money nothing can stop them and if all else fails lets just paint the car driver as the big bad monster.