Grayphil Posted August 25, 2020 Share Posted August 25, 2020 1 hour ago, The Preacherman said: If the vaccine doesn't work on the high risk then it is a useless vaccine. The vaccination policy should be to protect the vulnerable. So this would be to give it the same people as the flu vaccine with the exception of kids where covid-19 is very low risk unlike flu. As I'm sure you know, we have the flu vaccine, but it still kills 20/30000 most years UK.. The only way this vaccine will be viable, is if alll the under 70s take it. Then we have 70/80% herd immunity. The more I've been looking Into the response for flu vaccine, the more I was surprised how innnefective it is in old people..its pretty ineffective on fat people! Is does help some people, but it's no where like a miracle cure.. And its not going to help us get to zero covid. I was surprised to hear how innnefective he flu vaccine is, when given to older people Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grayphil Posted August 25, 2020 Share Posted August 25, 2020 7 minutes ago, The Spaniard said: For well-informed, alternative analyses of current events have a look at the off-guardian.org website, James Corbett's The Corbett Report, Polly St George's Amazing Polly and Dave Cullen's Computing Forever YT channels. There are no doubt many others. I do not necessarily endorse all that is presented by these sources, but IMHO they are run by serious, well-intentioned people. To dismiss them without examination by allowing an uncritical, conditioned 'conspiracy theory' reaction to them is to curtail one's curiosity unreasonably. For further diverse opinion, former BBC presenter Anna Brees is running a fascinating YT channel through which many and varied members of the public are each expressing their individual view by submitting a short 'talking head' video. I was going to send my own little one into Anna Brees, but I do have a look at her twitter.. Also off guardian is quite entertaining.. I'll have a look at the others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikhail Liebenstein Posted August 25, 2020 Share Posted August 25, 2020 2 hours ago, The Preacherman said: Sweden had a pandemic plan which they prepared for and stuck to. The UK had a pandemic plan which they didn't prepare for (no PPE stockpiles) and initially stuck to and then panicked. Who needs stockpiles when you have Eton Spunk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikhail Liebenstein Posted August 25, 2020 Share Posted August 25, 2020 14 minutes ago, Grayphil said: As I'm sure you know, we have the flu vaccine, but it still kills 20/30000 most years UK.. The only way this vaccine will be viable, is if alll the under 70s take it. Then we have 70/80% herd immunity. The more I've been looking Into the response for flu vaccine, the more I was surprised how innnefective it is in old people..its pretty ineffective on fat people! Is does help some people, but it's no where like a miracle cure.. And its not going to help us get to zero covid. I was surprised to hear how innnefective he flu vaccine is, when given to older people Indeed, flu shots are one of the least effective vaccines out there.That is why I never bother with it or let the kids have it at school. I don’t mind jabs for things like yellow fever, TB, Measles, Mumps, Rubella, Tetnus and Polio. Those ones actually work and last. Flu jabs are just too hit and miss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nightowl Posted August 25, 2020 Share Posted August 25, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Bob8 said: But, you point is very true. Even for flu, getting young people vaccinated would be a far more effective way of protecting the elderly than vaccinating the elderly. But, the issue is with getting all the young vaccinated. Although there is a number doing the rounds suggesting over 50% won't want the covid vaccine, as already mentioned that might fall once the nudge unit and the nation's Karens get to work, and there's the dangerous precident if legislation enforces it. One thing less talked about yet is the time to get one. Chris Whitty was talking about a covid vaccine for winter 2021/22 being realistic, which will make it late and redundant by then. Edited August 25, 2020 by nightowl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winkie Posted August 25, 2020 Share Posted August 25, 2020 (edited) On 24/08/2020 at 10:01, Bob8 said: To give some credit to the Government, some things are much clearer now than then. An early moderate shutdown appears to be most effective. That was not obvious at the time. Stockpiling of equipment, including PPE, was an unacceptable failure. Pandemics are not a shock. In 2008, the UK was better prepared than anyone else in the world, one of the recent Governments since then decided to not bother with the insurance premium. At some point there is likely to be a flu pandemic that is far more serious than this. We have to have PPE, respirators and the apps ready straight away. Careful balance of economy and health will not be an option in that case. Agree, without health, with the fear of becoming unhealthy, without the confidence that those in charge are looking after all of our best interests, where messages are clear and concise there is no economy, health before wealth.......I take it has been a learning process for all of us....better prepared next time. Edit to say......it was pushed hard that we should save the NHS.....the NHS therefore could not have been up to the job then, that is not the fault of the people or the people working in the NHS....billions are spent on it every year to be top A1 service of the world......perhaps the message could have been more towards saving peoples lives, and keeping people healthy. Edited August 25, 2020 by winkie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spaniard Posted August 25, 2020 Share Posted August 25, 2020 1 hour ago, winkie said: Agree, without health, with the fear of becoming unhealthy, without the confidence that those in charge are looking after all of our best interests, where messages are clear and concise there is no economy, health before wealth.......I take it has been a learning process for all of us....better prepared next time. Fortunately for us the WEF, together with the John Hopkins Center for Health Security and the ubiquitous B&M Gates Foundation, had, with impeccable timing, rehearsed just such a novel corona virus pandemic in Event 201 in October 2019. https://www.centerforhealthsecurity.org/event201/scenario.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpeggio Posted August 25, 2020 Share Posted August 25, 2020 2 hours ago, The Spaniard said: For well-informed, alternative analyses of current events have a look at the off-guardian.org website, James Corbett's The Corbett Report, Polly St George's Amazing Polly and Dave Cullen's Computing Forever YT channels. There are no doubt many others. Lots of interesting stuff out there. I spose' the recent clip from Mexico of a man's heart being cut out and eaten while he is still alive might also be a sort of argument against open borders. Although such a suggestion might be a little too far right for liberals. *If you have never experience real horror in your life then I would suggest not watching the clip.*....I decided to remove the link to the clip....Searching for "Mexico man's heart cut out and eaten while still alive" brings this stuff up since at least 2018. I'm not assuming anything here about the young men of fighting age coming over to the UK on dinghies. After all we don't know anything about them, they could be anyone. 21 hours ago, Grayphil said: The Queen is missing, I heard she has resumed her original Repltile self, and will be kinghting David Icke on her Christmas day message. Anti Pedo protests outside Buckingham Palace recently... https://www.express.co.uk/news/royal/1326739/Royal-latest-news-Buckingham-Palace-protest-Prince-Andrew-paedophile-Royal-Family-video Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nightowl Posted August 25, 2020 Share Posted August 25, 2020 8 minutes ago, The Spaniard said: Fortunately for us the WEF, together with the John Hopkins Center for Health Security and the ubiquitous B&M Gates Foundation, had, with impeccable timing, rehearsed just such a novel corona virus pandemic in Event 201 in October 2019. https://www.centerforhealthsecurity.org/event201/scenario.html They've been rehearsing for a casualty number of 65M though! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zugzwang Posted August 25, 2020 Share Posted August 25, 2020 2 hours ago, Grayphil said: As I'm sure you know, we have the flu vaccine, but it still kills 20/30000 most years UK.. The only way this vaccine will be viable, is if alll the under 70s take it. Then we have 70/80% herd immunity. The more I've been looking Into the response for flu vaccine, the more I was surprised how innnefective it is in old people..its pretty ineffective on fat people! Is does help some people, but it's no where like a miracle cure.. And its not going to help us get to zero covid. I was surprised to hear how innnefective he flu vaccine is, when given to older people We don't need a vaccine to get to zero covid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpeggio Posted August 25, 2020 Share Posted August 25, 2020 1 minute ago, nightowl said: They've been rehearsing for a casualty number of 65M though! https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/climate-and-people/giraffe-covid-threat-kenya-hunger/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zugzwang Posted August 25, 2020 Share Posted August 25, 2020 2 minutes ago, Arpeggio said: Lots of interesting stuff out there. I spose' the recent clip from Mexico of a man's heart being cut out and eaten while he is still alive might also be a sort of argument against open borders. Although such a suggestion might be a little too far right for liberals. *If you have never experience real horror in your life then I would suggest not watching the clip.*....I decided to remove the link to the clip....Searching for "Mexico man's heart cut out and eaten while still alive" brings this stuff up since at least 2018. I'm not assuming anything here about the young men of fighting age coming over to the UK on dinghies. After all we don't know anything about them, they could be anyone. Anti Pedo protests outside Buckingham Palace recently... https://www.express.co.uk/news/royal/1326739/Royal-latest-news-Buckingham-Palace-protest-Prince-Andrew-paedophile-Royal-Family-video Terrible things happen all the time in the Americas. That's the terrible thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nightowl Posted August 25, 2020 Share Posted August 25, 2020 2 hours ago, Grayphil said: I was surprised to hear how innnefective he flu vaccine is, when given to older people On top of that the flu virus is hard to predict how it might mutate by the time it arrives each winter making it hard to guess what the vaccine should be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpeggio Posted August 25, 2020 Share Posted August 25, 2020 2 minutes ago, zugzwang said: Terrible things happen all the time in the Americas. That's the terrible thing. Indeed. MS13 would cut your heart out and make your mother watch while ****** her, then *** her ***** ***, force your kids to *** **** ********, then **** them *****. Trump recently took out some MS13. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpeggio Posted August 25, 2020 Share Posted August 25, 2020 22 hours ago, Grayphil said: This may be the bigger scandals where it seems Fauci is complicit. And big Pharma really Is a thing @Arpeggio @The Spaniard u two do get some flack here.. But seems 2020 is proving a lot of what you guys say as true.. Can't see why. It's all there. They want biometric digital ID for everyone in a cashless world. As you can see at bottom of this website they are funded by Global Alliance Vaccine Initiative (GAVI) and Microsoft. https://id2020.org/ It reads nice and friendly. The idea is for your digital biometric ID to "allow" you to get back to normal, allowed to work, allowed to shop, go to venues etc. Eventually if you don't have your vaccine, your ability to buy or sell becomes restricted. It wont start like that but will step towards it. They will start with the disadvantaged. At the moment in Australia there is "no jab no pay" policy since 2018 for benefits. The more the economy is destroyed, the more dependents they can get etc. Once they have got so far with enough power there will be no consequence for them and no turning back. They can make vaccines regular, add already existing vaccines to the mandate, pretty much anything for the "common good". You wont be able to do anything about it largely because your finances will be completely digital. In China they are using the pandemic as cover to target dissidents. It doesn't have to happen. If people allow it, it will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zugzwang Posted August 25, 2020 Share Posted August 25, 2020 52 minutes ago, Arpeggio said: Indeed. MS13 would cut your heart out and make your mother watch while ****** her, then *** her ***** ***, force your kids to *** **** ********, then **** them *****. Trump recently took out some MS13. Sounds like an episode of Mayans M.C. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longgone Posted August 25, 2020 Share Posted August 25, 2020 1 hour ago, Arpeggio said: Lots of interesting stuff out there. I spose' the recent clip from Mexico of a man's heart being cut out and eaten while he is still alive might also be a sort of argument against open borders. Although such a suggestion might be a little too far right for liberals. *If you have never experience real horror in your life then I would suggest not watching the clip.*....I decided to remove the link to the clip....Searching for "Mexico man's heart cut out and eaten while still alive" brings this stuff up since at least 2018. I'm not assuming anything here about the young men of fighting age coming over to the UK on dinghies. After all we don't know anything about them, they could be anyone. Anti Pedo protests outside Buckingham Palace recently... https://www.express.co.uk/news/royal/1326739/Royal-latest-news-Buckingham-Palace-protest-Prince-Andrew-paedophile-Royal-Family-video sounds like a movie ray liotta should do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markyh Posted August 25, 2020 Share Posted August 25, 2020 23 hours ago, Bob8 said: I was speaking to an ICU nurse in North Carolina. They stopped trialling Hydroxychloroquine as it was killing people. We will see if early application is better. Hydroxychloroquine only works as a preventative measure to stop CV19 developing in patients BEFORE they get. If you start pumping it into those who are already well into the virus spread then it will just make them worse. No one takes Hydroxychloroquine once they have been admitted to hospital with full blown Maleria. It is a preventative medicine being used as a cure, which it isnt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Hun Posted August 25, 2020 Share Posted August 25, 2020 23 minutes ago, markyh said: No one takes Hydroxychloroquine once they have been admitted to hospital with full blown Maleria. Not true. The instructions say take once a week as a preventative then once a day as a cure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markyh Posted August 25, 2020 Share Posted August 25, 2020 52 minutes ago, Peter Hun said: Not true. The instructions say take once a week as a preventative then once a day as a cure. Not sure as this is the shit stuff only the worlds poor use, so is quite inneffective. When we had Malaria tablets in 2011 for Kenya we bought the posh stuff via a private clinic they only sell to westerners, that actually works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markyh Posted August 25, 2020 Share Posted August 25, 2020 55 minutes ago, Peter Hun said: Not true. The instructions say take once a week as a preventative then once a day as a cure. Plus, yes keep taking it as a cure if you get maleria while taking it as a preventative, as it is a pretty shit anti maleria drug due to overuse by the locals. But as far as i know it wont do any good if you are taking nothing, get maleria, then try and use it as a cure. Which is exactly what they try to do with it for CV19. dont work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captainb Posted August 25, 2020 Share Posted August 25, 2020 (edited) 37 minutes ago, markyh said: Plus, yes keep taking it as a cure if you get maleria while taking it as a preventative, as it is a pretty shit anti maleria drug due to overuse by the locals. But as far as i know it wont do any good if you are taking nothing, get maleria, then try and use it as a cure. Which is exactly what they try to do with it for CV19. dont work. Logically for malaria if it's effective in low doses against small numbers of the parasite as prevention in higher does it will act on larger numbers which will be present once you have symptoms of malaria. Whether you have used it as prevention or not is virtually irrelevant. Mode of action on malaria. "Chloroquine enters the red blood cell by simple diffusion, inhibiting the parasite cell and digestive vacuole. Chloroquine then becomes protonated (to CQ2+), as the digestive vacuole is known to be acidic (pH 4.7); chloroquine then cannot leave by diffusion. Chloroquine caps hemozoin molecules to prevent further biocrystallization of heme, thus leading to heme buildup. Chloroquine binds to heme (or FP) to form the FP-chloroquine complex; this complex is highly toxic to the cell and disrupts membrane function. Action of the toxic FP-chloroquine and FP results in cell lysis and ultimately parasite cell autodigestion.[32] Parasites that do not form hemozoin are therefore resistant to chloroquine.[33] Edited August 25, 2020 by captainb Added link Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpeggio Posted August 25, 2020 Share Posted August 25, 2020 2 hours ago, zugzwang said: Sounds like an episode of Mayans M.C. 2 hours ago, longgone said: sounds like a movie ray liotta should do. ....so yes, by the same merit, the reality is like a fiction horror / nightmare. Everything I posted which you both reply to, is really happening. The ID2020 website real, GAVI real, the gangs and the protest. I won't assume that you are making any other kind of point but if you are be upfront. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonsieurCopperCrutch Posted August 25, 2020 Share Posted August 25, 2020 4 hours ago, Arpeggio said: Lots of interesting stuff out there. I spose' the recent clip from Mexico of a man's heart being cut out and eaten while he is still alive might also be a sort of argument against open borders. Although such a suggestion might be a little too far right for liberals. *If you have never experience real horror in your life then I would suggest not watching the clip.*....I decided to remove the link to the clip....Searching for "Mexico man's heart cut out and eaten while still alive" brings this stuff up since at least 2018. I'm not assuming anything here about the young men of fighting age coming over to the UK on dinghies. After all we don't know anything about them, they could be anyone. Anti Pedo protests outside Buckingham Palace recently... https://www.express.co.uk/news/royal/1326739/Royal-latest-news-Buckingham-Palace-protest-Prince-Andrew-paedophile-Royal-Family-video Oh look at you and your feigned outrage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nightowl Posted August 25, 2020 Share Posted August 25, 2020 1 hour ago, 24gray24 said: Okay, thanks for that information. Looks like they under estimated people's response in the Internet age. At least in (socially responsible) Sweden. Now the question is what are they predicting for this winter? (Presumably the government will have sorted out the releasing the infected into care homes issue, the ppe and the testing capacity by then).? Any signs of a worse mutation? Quite why their model excluded such things maybe unknown and carefully guarded and may not come out of any enquiry, and Im sure Grayphil can fill us in with repeated problems ICL have had predicting things! My other point about this issue is the gov on this issue were badly advised which ICL have to take their share of that responsibility rather than just pointing the finger at the gov in those early days. There are noises of a bad flu season coming resulting in a "twindemic" but I dont see any evidence why this should be the case for either flu or covid. Once again theres no evidence for a worse mutation either, although that wont stop people trying to induce panic over any of these such are the times we are in (sorry - were in). 1 hour ago, pig said: FFS are you guys STILL clinging onto Sweden ? This is becoming epic 😃 Its more to further demonstrate ICLs model's problems - it wasnt intended as 'pig' baiting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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