Coronavirus - potential Black Swan?

[Riedquat]

Just now, Bruce Banner said:

So you say but it doesn't make it right. Legal, perhaps, but not right!

Exactly!

It doesn't make sense to confuse the discussion about rights and wrongs with legality and illegality, and the latter doesn't define the former. That's why I've already grumbled about using "the law says..." in such a discussion. What the law says is only relevant when considering the reasoning behind the law rather than the law itself, and even then as a subjective opinion rather than an objective fact.

[Ah-so]

1 hour ago, Bruce Banner said:

If I had children under 18 and I had reason to believe that the family GP was minded to treat my children, other than in an emergency, without parental consent, I would find another GP.

As any GP can treat your children over 16 without your consent, you might find moving rather pointless. 

[Bruce Banner]

No trust, no GP!

[Ah-so]

2 hours ago, markyh said:

My 15 year old wont be getting the vaccine, have already told them i forbid it, and if they disobey me and take it and risk their life because they want too, there will be no £20k+ EV bought for them when they pass their driving test @ 17. 

"I wont dad" was they reply i got.  I like being extra wealthy very much now i am, you have more power and control of those around you when you control the pursestrings.  

 

Aside from your beliefs in vaccines and your retro views views on ethnic minorities, I do notice a regular reference to money in your posts. Whether it's the price of your holiday or the cost of a car, and another instance that escapes my memory. Great that you have been able to join the middle class club, at least from a financial perspective, but one of the unwritten rules of the club is that you never mention prices - it's rather gauche. 

I hope your kid has the jab in secret to spite you. 

[Will!]

1 hour ago, Riedquat said:

Without actually saying what it said. As I've said before I don't go off and read articles or watch videos posted to make a point, posts should stand by themselves and use such things as references or for further information.

You said it yourself there - "concept".  Thoughts on the concept of a legal age and what it means rather than what the law actually is.

To summarise is to oversimplify and you mention concepts rather than the letter of the law, but in a nutshell:

For a decision to give or refuse consent it must be informed and the decision maker must have capacity / be competent to make the decision.

To be informed a decision maker must be informed of the nature of, purpose of, risks of, benefits of and alternatives to the action for which consent is being sought.

To have capacity to make a decision the decision maker must be able to understand the above information, weigh it, reach a decision and communicate that decision.  They do not have to believe the information.

 

 

[Riedquat]

Just now, Will! said:

To summarise is to oversimplify and you mention concepts rather than the letter of the law, but in a nutshell:

For a decision to give or refuse consent it must be informed and the decision maker must have capacity / be competent to make the decision.

To be informed a decision maker must be informed of the nature of, purpose of, risks of, benefits of and alternatives to the action for which consent is being sought.

To have capacity to make a decision the decision maker must be able to understand the above information, weigh it, reach a decision and communicate that decision.  They do not have to believe the information.

That does not address my points in the slightest.

[Will!]

33 minutes ago, Bruce Banner said:

So you say but it doesn't make it right. Legal, perhaps, but not right!

It maximises the autonomy of the individual so I’m OK with it.

[pig]

3 hours ago, markyh said:

My 15 year old wont be getting the vaccine, have already told them i forbid it, and if they disobey me and take it and risk their life because they want too, there will be no £20k+ EV bought for them when they pass their driving test @ 17. 

"I wont dad" was they reply i got.  I like being extra wealthy very much now i am, you have more power and control of those around you when you control the pursestrings.  

 

Somebody call the nspcc lol

[Will!]

3 hours ago, Riedquat said:

The entire concept of having a legal age of adulthood is that that is when you are responsible for yourself and your decisions and not your parents.

 

37 minutes ago, Riedquat said:

That does not address my points in the slightest.

What were your points?

[scottbeard]

3 hours ago, markyh said:

I like being extra wealthy very much now i am, you have more power and control of those around you when you control the pursestrings.  

As well as giving them more incentive to bump you off so they can get the money quicker and without having to do what you tell them.

(Source:  most episodes of Midsomer Murders )

[markyh]

1 hour ago, Ah-so said:

Aside from your beliefs in vaccines and your retro views views on ethnic minorities, I do notice a regular reference to money in your posts. Whether it's the price of your holiday or the cost of a car, and another instance that escapes my memory. Great that you have been able to join the middle class club, at least from a financial perspective, but one of the unwritten rules of the club is that you never mention prices - it's rather gauche. 

I hope your kid has the jab in secret to spite you. 

I will always be working class, having grown up in council houses, so yep i will shout from the roofs tops, and just this afternoon ticked over froma  USD millionaire to a £ GBP millionaire, £10k over, and that's without the house and the pension. 

[markyh]

26 minutes ago, scottbeard said:

As well as giving them more incentive to bump you off so they can get the money quicker and without having to do what you tell them.

(Source:  most episodes of Midsomer Murders )

Beauty of Crypto, no keys, no coins. Anything happens to me they are back to being just above average but with the mortgage paid off by life insurance.  Divorce, want 1/2, opps all that crypto wealth was sent to the wrong address, lost forever judge, 😉

[Confusion of VIs]

4 hours ago, Dr Doom said:

This shouldn't come as a huge surprise to anyone given the history of big tech
censoring anything that threatens the Fauci / pro vaccine narrative. 

Ivermectin does work, it just isn't profitable enough, hence the demonisation
campaign which you've clearly fallen for, hook, line, and sinker. 

 

How do you explain the NHS's discovery of cheap as chips Dexamethasone's use as a Covid treatment and its subsequent promotion and adoption all across the world. 

 

 

[Bruce Banner]

1 hour ago, Will! said:

It maximises the autonomy of the individual so I’m OK with it.

By that you mean the GP?

[Riedquat]

1 hour ago, Will! said:

 

What were your points?

That you're either responsible for yourself and your actions, in which case you shouldn't be covered by any definition of childhood (assuming that's the reason, there are of course other reasons why you might not be), or you are not, in which case what's the justifiable basis ("it's the law" not being a sufficient explanation) of saying "you are in this and that but not in some other things."

All you've said is "the law says this or that" rather than justify or explain the apparent contradictions.

[Confusion of VIs]

4 hours ago, Bruce Banner said:

Yes, if they're 12 years old.

Why not sky diving?  Your First Jump – British Skydiving

Well lots of parents let their 8yr old daughters go off horse riding, an activity that is about as dangerous as motorcycle racing, so why not skydiving.   

[Will!]

3 minutes ago, Bruce Banner said:

By that you mean the GP?

No, the patient.

[Will!]

1 minute ago, Riedquat said:

That you're either responsible for yourself and your actions, in which case you shouldn't be covered by any definition of childhood (assuming that's the reason

It isn't.

2 minutes ago, Riedquat said:

or you are not, in which case what's the justifiable basis ("it's the law" not being a sufficient explanation) of saying "you are in this and that but not in some other things."

Gillick competence.

3 minutes ago, Riedquat said:

All you've said is "the law says this or that" rather than justify or explain the apparent contradictions.

Capacity is decision specific.  There's no contradiction there.

[Riedquat]

1 minute ago, Will! said:

It isn't.

Gillick competence.

Capacity is decision specific.  There's no contradiction there.

And once again you're saying "this is what the law says it is" rather than making any argument that that's justified.

[Bruce Banner]

11 minutes ago, Will! said:

No, the patient.

The 12 year old patient, right you are then .

GP side-lines parents, complete loss of trust, parents find a new GP! 

[anonguest]

16 minutes ago, Confusion of VIs said:

Well lots of parents let their 8yr old daughters go off horse riding, an activity that is about as dangerous as motorcycle racing, so why not skydiving.   

There's horse riding and there's horse riding. And horse riding is not horse racing. Whereas motorcycle racing is racing. An adrenalin producing activity that actively takes on risk.  For the most people taking ol' Sugar Lump for a leisurely excursion across some fields is hardly comparable.

Edited September 2, 2021 by anonguest

[Will!]

11 minutes ago, Riedquat said:

And once again you're saying "this is what the law says it is" rather than making any argument that that's justified.

It maximises the autonomy of the individual.

[AThirdWay]

59 minutes ago, markyh said:

Beauty of Crypto, no keys, no coins. Anything happens to me they are back to being just above average but with the mortgage paid off by life insurance.  Divorce, want 1/2, opps all that crypto wealth was sent to the wrong address, lost forever judge, 😉

Man, your a real family man ain't ya? A right keeper!

What a control freak....

Edit: Or a troll, which I strongly suspect...

Edited September 2, 2021 by AThirdWay

[Confusion of VIs]

 

8 minutes ago, Bruce Banner said:

The 12 year old patient, right you are then .

GP side-lines parents, complete loss of trust, parents find a new GP! 

Does the GP have a choice in the matter, I thought they were obliged to retain patient confidentiality.

If so you seem to want to find a bent GP that will provide or withhold treatment based on a parent's irrational views rather than act in the best interest of the child.   

[Orb]

3 hours ago, markyh said:

Made me laugh on my last treatment, the cute early 30's polish spa manager (who had lived and worked in England) dropped into our post massage chat "was i looking forward to going back to work next week" , to which i beckoned her closer, and whispered in her ear, "I dont work anymore, i'm far to wealthy, pretty much retired, i shall just take the kids to school and back and just potter around" , which got me a naughty smile and wink in return. 

lol, amateur! Wait til you're worth 8 figures.