Knock on effect of low home ownership

[iamnumerate]

2 minutes ago, Hullabaloo82 said:

We're not quite in the baby boomer level of largesse though; will probably never be able to have bambino number 2 as ****** taking on an even bigger mortgage at 35. Could never afford to buy a brand new car in one go in cash. It essentially took us till our 30s, 2 degrees and 1 professional job to get less than what my parents (with barely a GCSE between them) had by their early 20s (folks managed to buy a 5 bed detached house on the edge of town on a waitress/low level it guy income). 

 

Why do you need a bigger house for a second child?  You have 3 bedrooms.

[Thorn]

20 minutes ago, adarmo said:

Might be stepping out a bit here but aren't most people on this website because they want prices to fall, and because they will be if/when they do? Each person will have a line drawn at what represents value to them. For me it was Brexit and all the doom and gloom around the General Election. I figured it was the perfect time to find a vendor who needed to move quickly. I got 12% off the original asking price. Some people would be happy with 5%, some with 20%, some 50%. Will that happen, who knows?

I just find it funny that some will stick two fingers up at anyone buying a house when they're all on here to talk about the time in the future when prices fall and they can buy. 

Good luck to you. 

I am on here to help me decide on price discovery. Which is set at the margins. And I don't think 12% off - (?off an asking price?) represents the low margin to come after the bust.

Those prices will be set by truly desperate sellers. 

[sPinwheel]

59 minutes ago, Thorn said:

Right.

Have you ever been evicted with your family by your speculator landlord? It focuses the mind.

Right. How often does that happen.

[iamnumerate]

5 minutes ago, sPinwheel said:

Right. How often does that happen.

My sister moved for work and decided to rent our her house rather than buy because she was not sure if she wanted to move, she is sure now and is evicting her tenants.

[sPinwheel]

18 minutes ago, iamnumerate said:

My sister moved for work and decided to rent our her house rather than buy because she was not sure if she wanted to move, she is sure now and is evicting her tenants.

So....how common is that.

[Thorn]

24 minutes ago, sPinwheel said:

Right. How often does that happen.

Not sure about others.

Me? Twice in the last 3 years. Both with minimum notice.

 

[Option5]

5 minutes ago, sPinwheel said:

So....how common is that.

Figures from 2015

The 2015 Ministry of Justice figures indicating that the number of tenants being evicted from their homes reached a record high last year. In England and Wales, more than 170 tenants were being evicted every day last year, with the overall figures for the year totalling 42,728. More than half of the evictions were thought to have been by private landlords and there are various factors that have come into play from tenants unable to pay rent as a result of welfare cuts, to landlords removing tenants who complain about the poor state of a property.

[iamnumerate]

4 minutes ago, sPinwheel said:

So....how common is that.

Sadly it is impossible to tell because Landlords use no fault evictions to get rid of bad tenants(who don't pay) as well as good (to sell).  Saying that I have known quite a lot of people who have had that experience.

[Si1]

4 minutes ago, iamnumerate said:

Sadly it is impossible to tell because Landlords use no fault evictions to get rid of bad tenants(who don't pay) as well as good (to sell).  Saying that I have known quite a lot of people who have had that experience.

That's very sad. I've luckily never had that experience.

[sPinwheel]

6 minutes ago, Option5 said:

Figures from 2015

The 2015 Ministry of Justice figures indicating that the number of tenants being evicted from their homes reached a record high last year. In England and Wales, more than 170 tenants were being evicted every day last year, with the overall figures for the year totalling 42,728. More than half of the evictions were thought to have been by private landlords and there are various factors that have come into play from tenants unable to pay rent as a result of welfare cuts, to landlords removing tenants who complain about the poor state of a property.

I'd equate an eviction due to non payment of rent to a repossession due to non payment of mortgage.

[Option5]

Just now, sPinwheel said:

I'd equate an eviction due to non payment of rent to a repossession due to non payment of mortgage.

Apart from the timescales involved I agree, however mortgage providers will usually try to assist in easing the situation whereas a landlord may not.

[adarmo]

2 hours ago, Thorn said:

Good luck to you. 

I am on here to help me decide on price discovery. Which is set at the margins. And I don't think 12% off - (?off an asking price?) represents the low margin to come after the bust.

Those prices will be set by truly desperate sellers. 

What sort of reduction would you be looking for?

[Hullabaloo82]

3 hours ago, iamnumerate said:

Why do you need a bigger house for a second child?  You have 3 bedrooms.

In a nutshell space.

3rd bedroom is basically a home office with a sofa bed in it. 

I work at home a lot (my office is about 50 miles away - add that to the disparity with boomers list. My dad never commuted further than 20 mins his whole life) and doing that in the kitchen diner with 2 kids roaming around half of the time isn't very appealing. 

The other option we have is to go into the loft. Reality is that that is probably what we will do if Mrs decides the biological pull of a second child is too much but right now we are quite settled and the hassle of a loft conversion doesn't appeal. 

[Thorn]

2 hours ago, adarmo said:

What sort of reduction would you be looking for?

Not sure yet. Still working that bit out. The evaporation in asking/sold prices in Ireland in the GFC was massive. Property "Wealth" just disappeared overnight for many. 

[Guest]

25 minutes ago, Thorn said:

Not sure yet. Still working that bit out. The evaporation in asking/sold prices in Ireland in the GFC was massive. Property "Wealth" just disappeared overnight for many. 

Problem is 5 vendors could list 5 identical houses at very different prices. Which ones the right price? I tend to look at average wage for a typical buyer of the specific property... Where I am a 3 bed semi should be 4 (ish) x average family wage of a 40yr old (ish!) couple. 

So I'm in BN13, I reckon (£35k + £15k) x 4 should get you an average semi. That's £200k but they peaked at £280k. 30% drop sounds about right.

[Wayward]

23 hours ago, giggler000 said:

Going down B&Q for plug or something maybe but new kitchen, cooker, white goods from curries, no way.  Basically no house = no space = nothing but work and taxes, absolutely can't wait for the riots to start and see what May decides to do this time around

renters may not be spending but dont worry the economy is kept ticking over by the spending by the rentiers in restaurants and on luxury goods etc.

I have pretty much given up on consumerism, like a slave I work and produce but dont consume.

[Thorn]

1 hour ago, Grab_Some_Popcorn said:

Problem is 5 vendors could list 5 identical houses at very different prices. Which ones the right price? I tend to look at average wage for a typical buyer of the specific property... Where I am a 3 bed semi should be 4 (ish) x average family wage of a 40yr old (ish!) couple. 

So I'm in BN13, I reckon (£35k + £15k) x 4 should get you an average semi. That's £200k but they peaked at £280k. 30% drop sounds about right.

Sounds fair enough.

Because prices are set at the margin, it doesn't matter what sort of Anchoring the 5 vendors do to convince you what they each think theirs is worth. 

The only thing that matters is the latest sold lowest or highest price. Once Mrs Y at Number 24 accepts "peanuts" for her place for whatever reason, that's the new latest price for them all.

Thats all that matters. In a declining market, all else is just HPI dreaming by greedy vendors.

Then depending on how desperate the rest are, once word of the new price is out, they are forced to drop their asking/sale prices because to get their money out its Don't Panic, But if you're going to panic, Panic First.

[Kurt Barlow]

On 9/26/2017 at 2:23 PM, Grab_Some_Popcorn said:

I was mulling over the impact of renting rather than owning a house into 20s/30s

Despite being a music/movie lover, I've ended up storing my projector/surround sound system as my new rental didn't have enough space to warrant it. As a result I'm not buying new films, cables, etc etc. Even if you think I should just use a laptop and netflix, the fact is my passion (and discretionary spending) has been curtailed by having to rent.

Same with DIY - I do the bare minimum in terms of DIY - I fitted a new U-bend under the sink, plus a new cord on the bathroom light switch, some mould spray ... that's about it. I'd love to learn to do a bit of plastering, replace a door, etc etc ... but no way am I bothering.

Gardening is minimal now, so I don't buy plants etc. I'd love to get some nice shrubs, turf the lawn, but not worth the cost/effort.

Parking - there seem to be multiple cars outside every house, even though parking very limited - youngsters still at home, using cars for freedom.

However, the opposite seems to be true for clothing - for many millenials though clothes are big business (BooHoo share price up 800% in couple of years), I guess because you can stay on top of fashion wherever you live, and you can pack it all into a suitcase.

Use that garden space to grow crops. Spinach and kale are easy. Potatoes don't take much work either.

[spyguy]

8 hours ago, Kurt Barlow said:

Use that garden space to grow crops. Spinach and kale are easy. Potatoes don't take much work either.

Unless you live a million miles from the shops, Ive not found gardening worth - other than a hobby or time sink.

Just use the the closest market. Typically half the price of supermarkets.

[regprentice]

12 hours ago, Hullabaloo82 said:

In a nutshell space.

3rd bedroom is basically a home office with a sofa bed in it. 

I work at home a lot (my office is about 50 miles away - add that to the disparity with boomers list. My dad never commuted further than 20 mins his whole life) and doing that in the kitchen diner with 2 kids roaming around half of the time isn't very appealing. 

The other option we have is to go into the loft. Reality is that that is probably what we will do if Mrs decides the biological pull of a second child is too much but right now we are quite settled and the hassle of a loft conversion doesn't appeal. 

Im in a similar suitation.

Now have 2 kids so have lost my 'office' and now work from the kitchen table. Cant have any meetings after 3.30 because the kids come in and make noise, dinner needs to be made etc. Its also a real pita during school holidays. My wifes biological clock was more like a biological h-bomb.

You're right, in a smallish town (Aberdeen) my dad was often only a ten min drive to work and i recall he was often at home at lunchtimes when i came home from school. Dont know anyone working who can say that today.

Im just outside edinburgh. I'd like a bigger house but, against what i paid 10 years ago for a 3 bed (82k) i'd have to shell out another 1/4 million to buy a 4 bed, probably with a smaller garden but maybe with the 'benefit' of a novelty garage to small formodern cars.

Working from home is fairly mandatory nowadays in many industries. 10 years ago i knew someone who worked from home after a serious operation and she was once given a verbal warning for allowing her dog to bark in the background during a meeting as it was ' unprofessional', now a week doesnt go by without being on a call/meeting where someone has to break off for a moment to sign for a pracel at the door etc. Recently i was in a meeting where someone said ' i cant check that document for you at the moment because i'm out walking my dog'.

[markyh]

23 hours ago, iamnumerate said:

A lot of people in other countries Spain,Ireland, Australia,US etc like buying as well.  It is not just a British thing. 

One big effect that no one has mentioned, is that once you have paid for a house, maintenance etc is not that much.  Therefore if people buy at 25 and pay off at 50 they have 15 years to save/help their children.  If they never buy and always rent they have an extra expense as a pensioner.

That's daft because @ 25 you cant afford a family home, I bought a 2 bed semi (with 1 toilet in the bathroom) when I was 27. We had our first kid there but then had to jump to a bigger house, a new 25 year mortgage. Then we fancied a detached in a Village and bought that last year with a new 20 year mortgage up to retirement @ 67! 

It has never been common practice for someone in there 20's to buy their first home as a large 3/4/5 bed house in a nice area near good schools and just start paying the mortgage off to be clear by 50!

May it happened quickly in the 70's due to unique high inflation wiping out mortgage costs and ever higher wages. No chance in the 90's of after.

[iamnumerate]

2 minutes ago, markyh said:

That's daft because @ 25 you cant afford a family home, I bought a 2 bed semi (with 1 toilet in the bathroom) when I was 27. We had our first kid there but then had to jump to a bigger house, a new 25 year mortgage. Then we fancied a detached in a Village and bought that last year with a new 20 year mortgage up to retirement @ 67! 

It has never been common practice for someone in there 20's to buy their first home as a large 3/4/5 bed house in a nice area near good schools and just start paying the mortgage off to be clear by 50!

May it happened quickly in the 70's due to unique high inflation wiping out mortgage costs and ever higher wages. No chance in the 90's of after.

Friends of mine who bought in the mid 90s got decent houses when they were less than 25.  Sadly I missed the boat and have no chance of similar.

I agree with you however that 25 is a bit young, saying that my sister got a decent house at 27 in 2002 - so it did happen until recently (she bought her first house very young, pre Blair boom).

[Option5]

7 minutes ago, markyh said:

That's daft because @ 25 you cant afford a family home, I bought a 2 bed semi (with 1 toilet in the bathroom) when I was 27. We had our first kid there but then had to jump to a bigger house, a new 25 year mortgage. Then we fancied a detached in a Village and bought that last year with a new 20 year mortgage up to retirement @ 67! 

It has never been common practice for someone in there 20's to buy their first home as a large 3/4/5 bed house in a nice area near good schools and just start paying the mortgage off to be clear by 50!

May it happened quickly in the 70's due to unique high inflation wiping out mortgage costs and ever higher wages. No chance in the 90's of after.

I "bought" my first place (new 2 bedroom "executive" apartment) in 1978, age 21. I could have bought a 3 bed semi in the same area for the same amount but I was young and stupid, now I'm just stupid.

[Mrs Bear]

I once remarked to a French neighbour of a BiL, how often it was said here that  it's only the Brits who are so keen on buying. 

She replied very emphatically (re the French)  that they most certainly do prefer buying to renting.  

I have a Swedish friend who's lived here for over 20 years, , but is moving back to Stockholm  after being widowed.  She has already bought a flat to return to - I don't think it even occurred to her to rent - and her son in Stockholm with 3 young children, is on house no. 3 since first child - they did up 1 and 2 and sold at a profit.  He has friends who have done the same.  Prices in Sweden have gone up a lot in recent years and a lot more people want to buy than used to be the case. My friend always lived in rented as a child. 

While she was undecided over which flat to buy, her daughter in law said something on the lines of, 'But it's an investment - you can always sell it later if you change your mind.' 

The mindset is not just a Brit thing - far from it. 

Edited to add - that was supposed to be in reply to whoever asked why Brits are so obsessed with ownership. 

Edited September 28, 2017 by Mrs Bear

[Parkwell]

18 hours ago, sPinwheel said:

Right. How often does that happen.

I've been evicted five times due to the landlord selling up.