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Knock on effect of low home ownership

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I was mulling over the impact of renting rather than owning a house into 20s/30s

Despite being a music/movie lover, I've ended up storing my projector/surround sound system as my new rental didn't have enough space to warrant it. As a result I'm not buying new films, cables, etc etc. Even if you think I should just use a laptop and netflix, the fact is my passion (and discretionary spending) has been curtailed by having to rent.

Same with DIY - I do the bare minimum in terms of DIY - I fitted a new U-bend under the sink, plus a new cord on the bathroom light switch, some mould spray ... that's about it. I'd love to learn to do a bit of plastering, replace a door, etc etc ... but no way am I bothering.

Gardening is minimal now, so I don't buy plants etc. I'd love to get some nice shrubs, turf the lawn, but not worth the cost/effort.

Parking - there seem to be multiple cars outside every house, even though parking very limited - youngsters still at home, using cars for freedom.

However, the opposite seems to be true for clothing - for many millenials though clothes are big business (BooHoo share price up 800% in couple of years), I guess because you can stay on top of fashion wherever you live, and you can pack it all into a suitcase.

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i think it creates a two tier wage system in most companies:

1. those tied to houses who cant just up and leave at for better pay, and knowing push for better wages with minimal risk (no mortgage to think about)
2. and those who are stuck with mortgages and cant just move 50 miles away for a better job

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Who will pay all the rents when no longer able to work?....will the pension cover it? 

Not as if can sell a house to pay for any care or care home further down the road.

If can save and pay private rent would not be paying private rent, would be buying....so no savings, no stake.;)

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1 hour ago, jiltedjen said:

i think it creates a two tier wage system in most companies:

1. those tied to houses who cant just up and leave at for better pay, and knowing push for better wages with minimal risk (no mortgage to think about)
2. and those who are stuck with mortgages and cant just move 50 miles away for a better job

I assume with 1 you mean 'those not tied to houses who can just up an leave....'

I can see 2 splits like that at work (in banking finance).

A lot of people in the not tied to a house category end up contracting as opposed to being permanent. Its almost like the gig economy but at the other end of the pay scale. The majority of contractors are either older and have paid off their mortgage and felt safe to take the jump into contracting or have never known any different and (largely) rent.

Also i see a massive split at work between bookers and people just 10 years younger. With a minimal mortgage the boomers have holidays 3 times a year, lots of discretionary spending on night out, restaurants, out having lunch every day, brand new macbook pro to work on, brand new iphone, new car (My boss was down at the Land Rover dealership the week the Velar came out to pick one up), 6 weeks holidays a year, accrued pay increases, bonuses, final salary pension (though now capped) . This group simply cant understand whats wrong with the people younger than them, renting or mortgaged to the hilt, shopping in Aldi, drinking free vending machine coffee in stead of going to starbucks 3 times a day, paying the same as them into a  pension to get out roughly a third of the benefit back out, cant afford a 'new' car, dual income family spending one full income on childcare etc etc. It goes well beyond house prices though a lot of that extra discretionary spending wealth comes from having a low/no mortgage in relative terms. 

Edited by regprentice
pressed enter too soon

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9 hours ago, regprentice said:

I assume with 1 you mean 'those not tied to houses who can just up an leave....'

I can see 2 splits like that at work (in banking finance).

A lot of people in the not tied to a house category end up contracting as opposed to being permanent. Its almost like the gig economy but at the other end of the pay scale. The majority of contractors are either older and have paid off their mortgage and felt safe to take the jump into contracting or have never known any different and (largely) rent.

Also i see a massive split at work between bookers and people just 10 years younger. With a minimal mortgage the boomers have holidays 3 times a year, lots of discretionary spending on night out, restaurants, out having lunch every day, brand new macbook pro to work on, brand new iphone, new car (My boss was down at the Land Rover dealership the week the Velar came out to pick one up), 6 weeks holidays a year, accrued pay increases, bonuses, final salary pension (though now capped) . This group simply cant understand whats wrong with the people younger than them, renting or mortgaged to the hilt, shopping in Aldi, drinking free vending machine coffee in stead of going to starbucks 3 times a day, paying the same as them into a  pension to get out roughly a third of the benefit back out, cant afford a 'new' car, dual income family spending one full income on childcare etc etc. It goes well beyond house prices though a lot of that extra discretionary spending wealth comes from having a low/no mortgage in relative terms. 

I see it everywhere. Boomers and older GenXers are the Asset Holding Generation and everyone younger is the Shafted Generation. It's so obvious and so unnatural that it won't last. 

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10 minutes ago, Thorn said:

I see it everywhere. Boomers and older GenXers are the Asset Holding Generation and everyone younger is the Shafted Generation. It's so obvious and so unnatural that it won't last. 

No there are plenty of younger generation that are living off the backs of the assets their parents hold and can share.....it is the younger generation that are in competition for the same opportunities where their parents do not have the means to help that will have to work twice as hard, be twice as shrewd and savvy....the rest either give up or couldn't care.;)

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38 minutes ago, sPinwheel said:

Why are British people obsessed with ownership. 

Why are British people obsessed with shafting each other?

Backstabbing, gossiping, whinging, bitching, stirring...all national pastimes. If there was an Olympic sport in those things, UK would blitz the medals table hands down. 

****** the house. Save all my hard earned coin to buy a shitbox grey monstrosity that couldn't house a rat, let alone two adults and a couple of kids?!

I'm giving up on this shitehole of a country. 38 years, and all I've seen is things get worse over here. I need a new country and a new challenge. 

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14 hours ago, Grab_Some_Popcorn said:

I was mulling over the impact of renting rather than owning a house into 20s/30s

Despite being a music/movie lover, I've ended up storing my projector/surround sound system as my new rental didn't have enough space to warrant it. As a result I'm not buying new films, cables, etc etc. Even if you think I should just use a laptop and netflix, the fact is my passion (and discretionary spending) has been curtailed by having to rent.

Same with DIY - I do the bare minimum in terms of DIY - I fitted a new U-bend under the sink, plus a new cord on the bathroom light switch, some mould spray ... that's about it. I'd love to learn to do a bit of plastering, replace a door, etc etc ... but no way am I bothering.

Gardening is minimal now, so I don't buy plants etc. I'd love to get some nice shrubs, turf the lawn, but not worth the cost/effort.

Parking - there seem to be multiple cars outside every house, even though parking very limited - youngsters still at home, using cars for freedom.

However, the opposite seems to be true for clothing - for many millenials though clothes are big business (BooHoo share price up 800% in couple of years), I guess because you can stay on top of fashion wherever you live, and you can pack it all into a suitcase.

100% agree that its had an effect on everything I've done.  No where to put a new car, spend out on a 2017 model only to have some townie key it because I'd have to keep it on the street.  On top of that everything has been in storage, it's that or not live.  I really can't stand this country but I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place as far as moving goes.

Going down B&Q for plug or something maybe but new kitchen, cooker, white goods from curries, no way.  Basically no house = no space = nothing but work and taxes, absolutely can't wait for the riots to start and see what May decides to do this time around

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Theres loads I'm not buying or putting on hold

I want a workshop or a garage for tools (currently have money set aside for this but no garage or space to extend)

I want a nice home office (because i work from home) can't even paint current office

I want a nice garden for BBQ's (can't currently as living in a flat) Could rent a house yes but then i can't make the garden nice

Like others and as a ex-carpenter i spend no money in the likes of B&Q when i buy a home i will be spending a great deal time and money on it 

Also have a couple work projects i have on hold as they mean i will need to be based in the UK and currently wondering if i will stay here

Same for most of my friends all builders mostly don't spend any money on there rented homes but have big ideas for when or if they buy

 

 

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10 hours ago, giggler000 said:

100% agree that its had an effect on everything I've done.  No where to put a new car, spend out on a 2017 model only to have some townie key it because I'd have to keep it on the street.  On top of that everything has been in storage, it's that or not live.  I really can't stand this country but I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place as far as moving goes.

Going down B&Q for plug or something maybe but new kitchen, cooker, white goods from curries, no way.  Basically no house = no space = nothing but work and taxes, absolutely can't wait for the riots to start and see what May decides to do this time around

We need a new fridge/freezer (both ours are 15 yrs old). We'd like to buy full height fridge and freezers but we'd have to move the effers when we buy, and who knows if they'd fit in our next place. Will probably just get stop gap cheap ones from second hand shop. I feel like a student but we're a family of 4 with above average income. Grrrrrr.

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12 hours ago, sPinwheel said:

Why are British people obsessed with ownership. 

A lot of people in other countries Spain,Ireland, Australia,US etc like buying as well.  It is not just a British thing. 

One big effect that no one has mentioned, is that once you have paid for a house, maintenance etc is not that much.  Therefore if people buy at 25 and pay off at 50 they have 15 years to save/help their children.  If they never buy and always rent they have an extra expense as a pensioner.

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11 minutes ago, iamnumerate said:

A lot of people in other countries Spain,Ireland, Australia,US etc like buying as well.  It is not just a British thing. 

One big effect that no one has mentioned, is that once you have paid for a house, maintenance etc is not that much.  Therefore if people buy at 25 and pay off at 50 they have 15 years to save/help their children.  If they never buy and always rent they have an extra expense as a pensioner.

Agree.Iv spent about £7k in 18 years on maintenance and that includes brand new central heating system including all radiators etc,all new double glazing and doors and a complete new block paved drive.Id think a decent quality semi would need about £600 a year tops for maintenance and that includes changing the big things over the years.Some of my friends are doing just as you say above.One has a good job for the north £42k a year,but still lives in the terrace house they bought at 21.Not the type to keep up with the Jones.Hes just bought his daughter a house with 75% down for her,she has a mortgage for 25%.So she is 26 with a mortgage for £18k.There is a lot of money passing down from grandparents to children to grandchildren.Pensioners have mostly big incomes compared to their needs for all the reasons we know on this site.Most of them arent going off on a cruise a year etc,they are handing it over to their children/grandchildren.Car here,house bill there.

For people who have a family who didnt bother saving/buying decades ago,or dont help out though its very very tough.

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9 minutes ago, durhamborn said:

<snip>

For people who have a family who didnt bother saving/buying decades ago,or dont help out though its very very tough.

This.....the tables have turned, was always more about the children helping out, looking after their parents, now it is the parents seeing their children/grandchildren get a step up......than must mean that society as a whole must be getting poorer.;)

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15 minutes ago, durhamborn said:

Agree.Iv spent about £7k in 18 years on maintenance and that includes brand new central heating system including all radiators etc,all new double glazing and doors and a complete new block paved drive.Id think a decent quality semi would need about £600 a year tops for maintenance and that includes changing the big things over the years.Some of my friends are doing just as you say above.One has a good job for the north £42k a year,but still lives in the terrace house they bought at 21.Not the type to keep up with the Jones.Hes just bought his daughter a house with 75% down for her,she has a mortgage for 25%.So she is 26 with a mortgage for £18k.There is a lot of money passing down from grandparents to children to grandchildren.Pensioners have mostly big incomes compared to their needs for all the reasons we know on this site.Most of them arent going off on a cruise a year etc,they are handing it over to their children/grandchildren.Car here,house bill there.

For people who have a family who didnt bother saving/buying decades ago,or dont help out though its very very tough.

You sure hes from the NE? Where's his Porshe Cayenne and EuroDisyney photos?

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It's funny how those 118 lot are so fond of citing the 'fact' that BTL keeps the economy ticking over with B&Q purchases and trades men's wages, yet if I owned my place I'd strip all the wallpaper and redecorate, replace the sh*t cooker, fit a dishwasher, run electricity to the garage, then make better use of the garage meaning purchase of tools and materials and so on and so on. And that's just in an already fairly well decorated and maintained house that apparently is keeping the economy afloat. Basically, as ever, they're talking b*llocks.

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17 hours ago, sPinwheel said:

Why are British people obsessed with ownership. 

The UK is still virtually a feudal society where status is informed by the ownership of land and property...just as it has since 1066.  This is very deeply ingrained in our psychological make up.

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18 hours ago, sPinwheel said:

Why are British people obsessed with ownership. 

Right.

Have you ever been evicted with your family by your speculator landlord? It focuses the mind.

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I would add that the fall in home ownership has hit the birth rate in the country.

We also have entire generations of adults being treated like children, not allowed to keep a dog and so on. Can't have kids, no privacy, and generally being treated like a piece of crap. I was watching "A History of Britain" by Simon Schama and he talks about how the English invaders refused the subjugated Welsh permission to have a friend stay overnight in their home without permission. I couldn't help but think of the modern social order.

No incentive to improve the quality of the existing housing stock, as mentioned before.

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Might be stepping out a bit here but aren't most people on this website because they want prices to fall, and because they will be if/when they do? Each person will have a line drawn at what represents value to them. For me it was Brexit and all the doom and gloom around the General Election. I figured it was the perfect time to find a vendor who needed to move quickly. I got 12% off the original asking price. Some people would be happy with 5%, some with 20%, some 50%. Will that happen, who knows?

I just find it funny that some will stick two fingers up at anyone buying a house when they're all on here to talk about the time in the future when prices fall and they can buy. 

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On 26/09/2017 at 9:15 AM, regprentice said:

I assume with 1 you mean 'those not tied to houses who can just up an leave....'

I can see 2 splits like that at work (in banking finance).

A lot of people in the not tied to a house category end up contracting as opposed to being permanent. Its almost like the gig economy but at the other end of the pay scale. The majority of contractors are either older and have paid off their mortgage and felt safe to take the jump into contracting or have never known any different and (largely) rent.

Also i see a massive split at work between bookers and people just 10 years younger. With a minimal mortgage the boomers have holidays 3 times a year, lots of discretionary spending on night out, restaurants, out having lunch every day, brand new macbook pro to work on, brand new iphone, new car (My boss was down at the Land Rover dealership the week the Velar came out to pick one up), 6 weeks holidays a year, accrued pay increases, bonuses, final salary pension (though now capped) . This group simply cant understand whats wrong with the people younger than them, renting or mortgaged to the hilt, shopping in Aldi, drinking free vending machine coffee in stead of going to starbucks 3 times a day, paying the same as them into a  pension to get out roughly a third of the benefit back out, cant afford a 'new' car, dual income family spending one full income on childcare etc etc. It goes well beyond house prices though a lot of that extra discretionary spending wealth comes from having a low/no mortgage in relative terms. 

There is a middle ground. 

I'm 35, wife 32, mortgage (3 bedrooms, garden) costs about 1/8 of joint net income. We have 2 cars, one a brand new (insert name of posh car brand) which we change every 6 months (deal through wife's work) and one used runaround. One UK holiday and one abroad this year, considering squeezing another abroad in before Christmas. I now have a career average pension (wife private, both through work). Eat out too often, don't save as much as we should but nevertheless save about £400 a month these days  (a large chunk of which goes on holidays and Christmas though). No childcare costs as all 4 of our sons grandparents live within a ten minute drive (2 within walking distance).

The difference? Am I rich, trust fund kid? No, just decided to stay living in my home town and took a less fashionable career role (public sector related) instead of decamping to the South East and chasing the dream. At 26 it felt like I'd failed in life. At 35 it feels like I made the right choice. 

We're not quite in the baby boomer level of largesse though; will probably never be able to have bambino number 2 as ****** taking on an even bigger mortgage at 35. Could never afford to buy a brand new car in one go in cash. It essentially took us till our 30s, 2 degrees and 1 professional job to get less than what my parents (with barely a GCSE between them) had by their early 20s (folks managed to buy a 5 bed detached house on the edge of town on a waitress/low level it guy income). 

 

Where I live the key disparity is between professional/trades and "unskilled" jobs. If you're in the former then this town is still a pretty decent place to live (with a bit of luck chucked in for good measure). If you're the latter it's  £7.60 for 30 hrs a week (at most) and housing benefit.

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  • 293 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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