Brexit What Happens Next Thread ---multiple merged threads.

[kzb]

Will spain win losing the pensioners?

Will the UK win with pensioners returning ?

Financially, Spain would lose and the UK would gain. 

Will currently happy pensioners retired in Europe win by having to come back?

Perhaps not, but then again retiring abroad always had risks, which presumably they accepted at the time.

[kzb]

 

Gotta go now, back tomorrow

[knock out johnny]

7 minutes ago, kzb said:

Will spain win losing the pensioners?

Will the UK win with pensioners returning ?

Financially, Spain would lose and the UK would gain. 

Will currently happy pensioners retired in Europe win by having to come back?

Perhaps not, but then again retiring abroad always had risks, which presumably they accepted at the time.

No response re homeless pensioners needing housing and increased strain on the NHS so please explain how that is a win for the UK

I see you're now prepared to throw fellow Brits under the bus simply because they had the temerity to decide to spend the rest of their days somewhere cheaper and sunnier. Nice

Edited June 21, 2017 by knock out johnny

[Richmond]

11 hours ago, ThePrufeshanul said:

After more than a week of negotiations, Theresa May cant secure 10 DUP votes which were pretty much guaranteed to go her way anyway. What possible hope have we got for the Brexit talks?

Some intruiging behind the scenes footage from Number 10:

 

 

Err because the DUP are out to squeeze as much out of the government as they can. Obviously you would ask for outrageous demands and let the government haggle you down. Or are you suggesting the government should just roll over and give the, what they want? This seems to be the default position of many people who argue the UK should just do what the EU wants.

[OnionTerror]

3 hours ago, ccc said:

Your statement of us leaving European Law is not correct. We don't know yet. You even state that in your very next sentence.

So yes my statement was also based on the assumption we will be. I do hope so.

I was more thinking about the bit about treaties and when they cease to apply. I understand it now though.

From the link I provided:

http://ec.europa.eu/trade/policy/countries-and-regions/countries/switzerland/

Quote

Switzerland's economic and trade relations with the EU are mainly governed through a series of bilateral agreements where Switzerland has agreed to take on certain aspects of EU legislation in exchange for accessing the EU's single market.

https://www.slaughterandmay.com/media/2535258/brexit-essentials-alternatives-to-eu-membership.pdf

Quote

As for any third country wishing to trade with the EU, the UK would be required to comply with certain single market rules in return for access. For example, there is no automatic mutual recognition of regulation - so the UK would have to meet the regulatory requirements of the EU in order to sell its goods and services there.

Following the “Swiss model”, the UK would face the same problem of losing influence over EU rules that it would under the “Norwegian model”: in practice it would have to comply with EU regulation in return for single market access, but would not be represented in decision-making. This problem would be worse under the “Swiss option” than under the “Norwegian option”, as there are fewer institutional structures in place to exert “soft influence” in the EU decision-making process.

As for Canada..

http://openeurope.org.uk/today/blog/what-could-the-eu-canada-free-trade-deal-tell-us-about-brexit/

Quote

As regards financial services more specifically, CETA does not prevent the EU and Canada from keeping a number of regulatory and licensing requirements in place. In order to take advantage of the EU financial services ‘passport’, for instance, Canadian firms will have to establish a presence in the EU and comply with EU regulations. Therefore, the ‘Canadian model’ could ultimately make it harder for UK-based financial services firms to sell into the EU market.

...and with Mrs May wanting a "deep and special partnership" on goods and services, it seems as if we'll have to comply with EU legislation one way or another...That's the issue with the EU (with the input of EEA countries) controlling the single market.

Edited June 21, 2017 by Dave Beans

[ThePrufeshanul]

No i'm saying that May and her crew are crap negotiators and that this will translaye to the Brexit talks.

[Richmond]

2 minutes ago, ThePrufeshanul said:

No i'm saying that May and her crew are crap negotiators and that this will translaye to the Brexit talks.

Why are they crap negotiators? What should they be doing differently?

[rollover]

2 hours ago, knock out johnny said:

Some are, some aren't. 

Let's drive the lesson home.

spain will lose, britain will lose and they will lose -  brexit in a nutshell

And Tories will lose the next election big time, because lot of unhappy and let-down voters will return home.

[ThePrufeshanul]

1 hour ago, Richmond said:

Why are they crap negotiators? What should they be doing differently?

With the DUP they should have been shoring up their support for a confidence and supply deal well before the Queen's speech was due. From inews.co.uk:

 

"Relations between the Conservatives and the Democratic Unionist Party have “soured” since talks began to secure a deal to shore up the Government, according to a former adviser from the DUP. Richard Bullick, who was special adviser to DUP leader Arlene Foster, said it was “extraordinary” that an agreement had not been struck between the two parties. It comes amid reports that a deal with the Northern Irish party could be in doubt as Theresa May looked to push on with the Queen’s Speech without any formal backing. The mood music was good Such a move would leave the Prime Minister with a majority of just two as she heads into a series of key votes to pass legislation on issues such as Brexit. But Mr Bullick suggested that relations had taken a turn for the worse the longer the negotiations had been drawn out. “That would be the impression one gains,” he told BBC Radio4’s Today programme. “Relations were positive – the mood music was very good. One does detect souring of relations and that is largely down to the fact that a deal has not been done as quickly as it should have been.” Mr Bullick worked in the DUP for 17 years and is widely regarded as the brains behind the party’s transformation having served three first ministers. Pretty extraordinary And he claimed that a lack of experience among those conducting the talks could be to blame for the lack of a deal. “I do find it pretty extraordinary that two parties that have quite a quite a lot in common and seem to have a pretty similar agenda have been unable to hammer out a deal,” he said. “I would have thought this could have been done in a matter of hours, but clearly this has not been possible.” The difficulty in securing a deal raises serious questions over the Prime Minister’s ability at the negotiating table. Heading into the election, Mrs May was widely trumpeted as the best person to thrash out a Brexit deal with officials from Brussels. But her inability to forge any sort of arrangement with a political party closely aligned to her own has raised significant doubts over her ability to strike a deal with the EU. Number 10 had announced a deal had been struck between the two parties more than 10 days ago, only to be forced into an embarrassing admission that no such was in place."

Read more at: https://inews.co.uk/essentials/news/politics/relations-tories-dup-soured/

 

The news from the initial talks between Davis and Barnier pretty much bears out what I've been saying. 

 

They are clowns.

[spyguy]

4 hours ago, kzb said:

First sentence:  if they own property in Spain which they sell for Euros, those Euros are worth more Pounds.

Second para:  you can bet Spain are billing the UK for every last cent they can wring out the system.  Although, like you, I can't find a detailed analysis.  But it won't be a vast difference either way.

Third para:  you have not explained how they are homeless.  They don't need to work because they're pensioners, most likely on quite reasonable incomes.  The medical costs are explained above and won't be a big difference either way.

Once again, their UK-paid state pensions and additional private pensions will be spent in the UK economy instead of the Spanish economy.  This is very much Spain's loss and our gain.  Do you really think Spain would've welcomed UK retirees in such numbers if they didn't gain from it?

I cant comment onthe Costa but I can on Catalonia.

Family member (Catalan) bought a place for 200KE in 2008, The person who bought the same flat type paid 300KE about 4 years before him.However the remaining flats hare being flogged off for 100KE.

[Richmond]

20 minutes ago, ThePrufeshanul said:

With the DUP they should have been shoring up their support for a confidence and supply deal well before the Queen's speech was due. From inews.co.uk:

 

"Relations between the Conservatives and the Democratic Unionist Party have “soured” since talks began to secure a deal to shore up the Government, according to a former adviser from the DUP. Richard Bullick, who was special adviser to DUP leader Arlene Foster, said it was “extraordinary” that an agreement had not been struck between the two parties. It comes amid reports that a deal with the Northern Irish party could be in doubt as Theresa May looked to push on with the Queen’s Speech without any formal backing. The mood music was good Such a move would leave the Prime Minister with a majority of just two as she heads into a series of key votes to pass legislation on issues such as Brexit. But Mr Bullick suggested that relations had taken a turn for the worse the longer the negotiations had been drawn out. “That would be the impression one gains,” he told BBC Radio4’s Today programme. “Relations were positive – the mood music was very good. One does detect souring of relations and that is largely down to the fact that a deal has not been done as quickly as it should have been.” Mr Bullick worked in the DUP for 17 years and is widely regarded as the brains behind the party’s transformation having served three first ministers. Pretty extraordinary And he claimed that a lack of experience among those conducting the talks could be to blame for the lack of a deal. “I do find it pretty extraordinary that two parties that have quite a quite a lot in common and seem to have a pretty similar agenda have been unable to hammer out a deal,” he said. “I would have thought this could have been done in a matter of hours, but clearly this has not been possible.” The difficulty in securing a deal raises serious questions over the Prime Minister’s ability at the negotiating table. Heading into the election, Mrs May was widely trumpeted as the best person to thrash out a Brexit deal with officials from Brussels. But her inability to forge any sort of arrangement with a political party closely aligned to her own has raised significant doubts over her ability to strike a deal with the EU. Number 10 had announced a deal had been struck between the two parties more than 10 days ago, only to be forced into an embarrassing admission that no such was in place."

Read more at: https://inews.co.uk/essentials/news/politics/relations-tories-dup-soured/

 

The news from the initial talks between Davis and Barnier pretty much bears out what I've been saying. 

 

They are clowns.

But there is no detail here specifying why talks have not got to a deal. How do you know the DUP haven't gone in and said we want £100bn for NI and we won't budge? After all, until the Queens speech vote it is a who blinks first scenario. Arguably the DUP could support the Queens speech even without a deal, letting this drag on. Of course equally TM may be playing a game herself of trying to get a dirt cheap deal knowing the DUP will support anyway else they also lose power. She has demonstrated her likes for a high stake games. There is just not enough detail to say who is trashing the talks.

 

i thought the EU talks ended up with the U.K. Caving to the EU demands. But this was exactly what many on this thread said would happen as there is no negotiating with the EU. And with no mandate to threaten a hard Brexit anymore, what have the UK team got to negotiate with?

[ThePrufeshanul]

3 minutes ago, Richmond said:

But there is no detail here specifying why talks have not got to a deal. How do you know the DUP haven't gone in and said we want £100bn for NI and we won't budge? After all, until the Queens speech vote it is a who blinks first scenario. Arguably the DUP could support the Queens speech even without a deal, letting this drag on. Of course equally TM may be playing a game herself of trying to get a dirt cheap deal knowing the DUP will support anyway else they also lose power. She has demonstrated her likes for a high stake games. There is just not enough detail to say who is trashing the talks.

 

i thought the EU talks ended up with the U.K. Caving to the EU demands. But this was exactly what many on this thread said would happen as there is no negotiating with the EU. And with no mandate to threaten a hard Brexit anymore, what have the UK team got to negotiate with?

Well it's possible the DUP have asked for the moon on a stick but remember the reason that May came out so quickly after the election to say she would conclude a deal with the DUP was because their interests coincided. That is borne out by the statement above from Richard Bullick. I don't think that Tory MPs pr party members are greatly impressed with her performance but they do not see a credible alternative yet that avoids the risk of Corbyn getting in to Number 10. 

[Byron]

I would be surprised if NI politicians ever agreed to anything.

They seem to be the most awkward, intransigent people on earth.

Talk about paranoia, they cannot trust anybody, but I suppose that is a result of the hard facts of politics in NI.

[ccc]

3 hours ago, Dave Beans said:

From the link I provided:

http://ec.europa.eu/trade/policy/countries-and-regions/countries/switzerland/

https://www.slaughterandmay.com/media/2535258/brexit-essentials-alternatives-to-eu-membership.pdf

As for Canada..

http://openeurope.org.uk/today/blog/what-could-the-eu-canada-free-trade-deal-tell-us-about-brexit/

...and with Mrs May wanting a "deep and special partnership" on goods and services, it seems as if we'll have to comply with EU legislation one way or another...That's the issue with the EU (with the input of EEA countries) controlling the single market.

And this is what is being discussed now. All depends what they agree on. 

[rollover]

Queen's hat has striking similarity to the EU flag CNN

[olliegog]

7 hours ago, rollover said:

Queen's hat has striking similarity to the EU flag CNN

which 5 stars (countries) are those !

[rollover]

1 hour ago, olliegog said:

which 5 stars (countries) are those !

England, Scotland, Northern Ireland, Wales and Gibraltar?

[GrizzlyDave]

10 hours ago, Richmond said:

But there is no detail here specifying why talks have not got to a deal. How do you know the DUP haven't gone in and said we want £100bn for NI and we won't budge? After all, until the Queens speech vote it is a who blinks first scenario. Arguably the DUP could support the Queens speech even without a deal, letting this drag on. Of course equally TM may be playing a game herself of trying to get a dirt cheap deal knowing the DUP will support anyway else they also lose power. She has demonstrated her likes for a high stake games. There is just not enough detail to say who is trashing the talks.

 

i thought the EU talks ended up with the U.K. Caving to the EU demands. But this was exactly what many on this thread said would happen as there is no negotiating with the EU. And with no mandate to threaten a hard Brexit anymore, what have the UK team got to negotiate with?

Early concessions to make head way is not caving in. It's pragmatic. Keep your power dry for the big battles.

[TheCountOfNowhere]

3 hours ago, rollover said:

England, Scotland, Northern Ireland, Wales and Gibraltar?

Charlie, Andrew, Harry, William and The Duke...

 

Oh hang on, you said  countries.

Edited June 22, 2017 by TheCountOfNowhere

[TheCountOfNowhere]

Just now, GrizzlyDave said:

Early concessions to make head way is not caving in. It's pragmatic. Keep your power dry for the big battles.

It seems to me the establishment party dont under stand what leaving the EU actuall means, i.e. not being a part of it, not supporting their passport holders with British taxation. 

 

[rollover]

 

Quote

 

Fruit and veg farmers facing migrant labour shortages

Many growers blame the weak pound which has reduced their workers' earning power, as well as uncertainty over Brexit. About 80,000 seasonal workers a year pick and process British fruit and veg. Most of them are from the European Union, mainly Romania and Bulgaria. One in five growers says they already have fewer pickers than they need. British Summer Fruits, the body which represents soft fruit growers, says labour shortages are now the worst seen since 2004. BBC

 

After NHS and construction staff shortage now fruit and veg pickers.

[GrizzlyDave]

18 minutes ago, rollover said:

England, Scotland, Northern Ireland, Wales and Gibraltar?

Gibraltar isn't a country.

I think the dots represent the five key negotiating points...

Edited June 22, 2017 by GrizzlyDave

[GrizzlyDave]

4 minutes ago, TheCountOfNowhere said:

It seems to me the establishment party dont under stand what leaving the EU actuall means, i.e. not being a part of it, not supporting their passport holders with British taxation. 

 

The establishment party don't know what day of the week it is.

Did you listen to the BoJo interview on Eddie Meir?

What a tit.

[Futuroid]

Project fear.

Implementation phase activated.

Japanese bank Nomura chooses Frankfurt for EU headquarters after UK's withdrawal
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/brexit-nomura-bank-relocates-frankfurt-eu-headquarters-european-base-london-city-germany-a7802081.html

[GrizzlyDave]

1 hour ago, Futuroid said:

Project fear.

Implementation phase activated.

Japanese bank Nomura chooses Frankfurt for EU headquarters after UK's withdrawal
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/brexit-nomura-bank-relocates-frankfurt-eu-headquarters-european-base-london-city-germany-a7802081.html

Never heard of them.

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