Brexit What Happens Next Thread ---multiple merged threads.

[Byron]

8 minutes ago, HairyOb1 said:

Ok, here you go.

Edited to add: If you have Neanderthal in you, then you are most certainly all European, as the UK was part of Western Europe at that time, and Neanderthals came to the northern peninsula, as we were, to hunt mammoth.

I can let you know some more if you like, but you can find this stuff out yourself.

Relax, if it makes you happy carry on with your pointless rant, I don't even consider myself British.

[HairyOb1]

2 minutes ago, Byron said:

Relax, if it makes you happy carry on with your pointless rant, I don't even consider myself British.

It's not a rant, that's rank foolish to suggest, it's an observation I make to a lot of folk who talk about the notion they're not European.  They are.  Period.

Even those strange folk who call themselves English, aren't.  It's beyond doubt. It's their mental belief, not physical.  That's grand, but don't dress any of it up as fact, as it's demonstrably incorrect.

 

Edited June 22, 2017 by HairyOb1

[cock-eyed octopus]

1 hour ago, HairyOb1 said:

It's not a rant, that's rank foolish to suggest, it's an observation I make to a lot of folk who talk about the notion they're not European.  They are.  Period.

Even those strange folk who call themselves English, aren't.  It's beyond doubt. It's their mental belief, not physical.  That's grand, but don't dress any of it up as fact, as it's demonstrably incorrect.

 

I thought we were all African?

 

[Riedquat]

1 hour ago, HairyOb1 said:

Sorry, but you're wrong.  93% of England is 'non-urban'.  That counts parks, gardens, etc, etc.  It;s a myth we're running out of space, what we don't have is infrastructure and that's long been a problem.  In the South West there's nothing beyond Exeter really.  High Speed trains slowly loop around peninsulas, roads are dual carriageways at best and asphyxiated from Spring onwards really.  We need better infrastructure and more house building.

Er, no. The idea that there's a large proportion not built on therefore everything is fine is so ridiculous it's hard to see anyone take it seriously. Even a few percent of land overall is quite a high, unpleasant level of development - 7% is quite depressingly high (and the first figure I found was that it's 10.6% for England). In to one sprawling city and out of another. Picking one not particularly badly overdeveloped (but hardly empty either) corner of the country proves nothing. That you might even need dual carriageways, let alone something bigger, is one sign of overdevelopment. That you want trains to whizz around just makes you look impatient. We might "need" more infrastructure and house building for the current level of population but since we've already got a level at which the country would be a more pleasant place if there was less that's yet another sign of too many people. It really rather astounds me that anyone could wander around with such a blinkered, narrow vision that the idea of further development doesn't disturb them. The country, and life, really is wasted on such people.

[Byron]

27 minutes ago, Riedquat said:

Er, no. The idea that there's a large proportion not built on therefore everything is fine is so ridiculous it's hard to see anyone take it seriously. Even a few percent of land overall is quite a high, unpleasant level of development - 7% is quite depressingly high (and the first figure I found was that it's 10.6% for England). In to one sprawling city and out of another. Picking one not particularly badly overdeveloped (but hardly empty either) corner of the country proves nothing. That you might even need dual carriageways, let alone something bigger, is one sign of overdevelopment. That you want trains to whizz around just makes you look impatient. We might "need" more infrastructure and house building for the current level of population but since we've already got a level at which the country would be a more pleasant place if there was less that's yet another sign of too many people. It really rather astounds me that anyone could wander around with such a blinkered, narrow vision that the idea of further development doesn't disturb them. The country, and life, really is wasted on such people.

You are so right.

Many people have no idea at all about food production and just want more concrete, more houses.

Small thing, but beaches in South wales are losing their sand because so much is being taken for concrete.

The Metropolitan mind set, blithely unaware of the facts of life just want more.

More growth, greater GDP, more population and none of them asks the fundamental question Why?

De-population will become the popular cry in years to come as the people become fed up with more congestion, more pollution, more queues.

People will have to give up their mindless acquisitiveness for the latest overpriced electronic wonder and live on less.

They can not only do it, but will be happier.

Brexit is just the start.

[Peter Hun]

2 hours ago, thecrashingisles said:

Is that the UK of today or the UK of 1900?

Nah, Russia today.  Errol is Russian.

[knock out johnny]

16 minutes ago, Byron said:

 

Brexit is just the start.

And that's why it must and will be stopped

[thecrashingisles]

3 hours ago, Byron said:

Ancient history, maybe I have a bit of Neanderthal.

Fact is that for generation after generation we have not considered ourselves European.

Try telling an Aussie, Yank or Canadian that they are not their respective nationalities.

You want to be European...fine but count me out because I am most definitely not.

You belong on a psychologists couch.  Either that or you didn't learn any history or geography in school.  Britain is in Europe and its indigenous population is European.  Perhaps you arrived here on the Windrush?  In that case I could understand you not considering yourself European.

[Confusion of VIs]

Theresa's being strong and stable again, telling those pesky Europeans that FoM will end from the date of A50's invocation. ccc will be happy.

 

        Oh wait there's a two year grace period where they will be entitled to build up right to remain, so effectively the date for ending FoM is our leave date in 2019

 

       Oh wait some more, the first cut off date is subject to negotiation and may be as late as our leaving date making FoM end date 2021

 

All this even before we start negotiating any transition period.

I suspect even ccc will see this for the cave in it is.

What on earth was the point of couching it in these terms, does she really believe anyone will be fooled.   

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jun/22/theresa-may-makes-fair-and-serious-offer-on-rights-of-eu-citizens-in-uk

 

 

 

Edited June 22, 2017 by Confusion of VIs

[Byron]

7 minutes ago, thecrashingisles said:

You belong on a psychologists couch.  Either that or you didn't learn any history or geography in school.  Britain is in Europe and its indigenous population is European.  Perhaps you arrived here on the Windrush?  In that case I could understand you not considering yourself European.

No need to be insulting.

You are mistaken.

You are probably Anglo Saxon and assume that everybody else in the UK is.

[Byron]

1 hour ago, knock out johnny said:

And that's why it must and will be stopped

Ain't going to happen

Tough.

Out of interest, do you really think that it will be stopped?

Edited June 22, 2017 by Byron

[Richmond]

26 minutes ago, thecrashingisles said:

You belong on a psychologists couch.  Either that or you didn't learn any history or geography in school.  Britain is in Europe and its indigenous population is European.  Perhaps you arrived here on the Windrush?  In that case I could understand you not considering yourself European.

As you know I don't agree. For hundreds of years, your average peasant knew nothing other than their local village. Why would they feel European? In the last what 70 years the world has opened up for the average man, but it has opened up so rapidly that actual close proximity to anywhere is almost as meaningless as it was hundreds of years ago when average people knew nothing other than their local village. 

You are more likely to feel close to those who speak the same language, have the same values etc than you are based on geography. Of course, this does include most of Europe, but also many other parts of the world. Why would you feel closer to say Poland than to say New Zealand? Other than a few hours/quid different on a plane.

Edited June 22, 2017 by Richmond

[cock-eyed octopus]

30 minutes ago, thecrashingisles said:

You belong on a psychologists couch.  Either that or you didn't learn any history or geography in school.  Britain is in Europe and its indigenous population is European.  Perhaps you arrived here on the Windrush?  In that case I could understand you not considering yourself European.

So, are we all African then?

 

[knock out johnny]

47 minutes ago, Confusion of VIs said:

Theresa's being strong and stable again, telling those pesky Europeans that FoM will end from the date of A50's invocation. ccc will be happy.

 

        Oh wait there's a two year grace period where they will be entitled to build up right to remain, so effectively the date for ending FoM is our leave date in 2019

 

       Oh wait some more, the first cut off date is subject to negotiation and may be as late as our leaving date making FoM end date 2021

 

All this even before we start negotiating any transition period.

I suspect even ccc will see this for the cave in it is.

What on earth was the point of couching it in these terms, does she really believe anyone will be fooled.   

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jun/22/theresa-may-makes-fair-and-serious-offer-on-rights-of-eu-citizens-in-uk

 

 

 

ccc will be upset - apparently 500 million people are  itching to rush to the uk

Edited June 22, 2017 by knock out johnny

[ZeroSumGame]

Softly, softly catchee monkey. The professional negotiators from the EU are helping Theresa abandon those foolish aims, step, by, step. Nice.

[ZeroSumGame]

.

Edited June 22, 2017 by ZeroSumGame

[Confusion of VIs]

1 minute ago, hotairmail said:

 

There's something distasteful about people who would rather they were right than people in the country be better off.

Whatever the short term bill (50 years and more if you're asking), in the long run, there are more important issues at stake.

We'll see how the EU develops democratically from outside thankfully. Something to be scared of given modern technology.

And no, I'm not comfortable about my own country - just that I trust the unelected executive bureaucrats even less. Especially given their general attitudes and demeanour to populaces generally.

You have absolutely no idea what issues we will be facing in 50 years time let alone their relative importance.

This statement makes absolutely no sense except as a way of  never having to say sorry, no matter how disastrously Brexit turns out.  

[knock out johnny]

10 minutes ago, hotairmail said:

 

 

Whatever the short term bill (50 years and more if you're asking), in the long run, there are more important issues at stake.

 

You do know that long termism can  edge into vanity legacy. Ask Keynes

Edited June 22, 2017 by knock out johnny

[ccc]

57 minutes ago, knock out johnny said:

ccc will be upset - apparently 500 million people are  itching to rush to the uk

You have a really bad habit of making stuff up. Thing is - anyone who has been reading this thread for any period of time will see this clearly.

I do wonder what your purpose for doing this is. Pure wind up is gradually coming to the fore. 

[ZeroSumGame]

8 minutes ago, hotairmail said:

 

.....stuff....

Thing is HAM : it's not just Rachel Johnson's son who thought the likes of uncle Boris had 'destroyed their future'.  No, I've seen it with my own eyes just how gutted they were with this BREXIT nonsense. No surprise that these very well to do kids voted for Corbyn.  No surprise that they want the hopes and opportunities that their parents had.

[thecrashingisles]

2 hours ago, hotairmail said:

There's something distasteful about people who would rather they were right than people in the country be better off.

Luckily for those of us on the Remain side, the two go together.

Leaving the EU is just volunteering for the role of being a cautionary tale for any country that tries to go it alone.

[thecrashingisles]

1 hour ago, hotairmail said:

As Merv the Swerve (another Brexiteer after his close look at the workings of the EU and ECB) himself said, looking back on a chart of GDP with a long lens, we would be hard pressed to see the blip in gdp caused by Brexit.

Merv the Swerve is simply an ignoramus when it comes to Europe.  He honestly thought it was just a trading bloc until the Euro was created.

[thecrashingisles]

3 hours ago, Richmond said:

As you know I don't agree. For hundreds of years, your average peasant knew nothing other than their local village. Why would they feel European?

You don't have to feel something to be it.  Look at how much trouble people had in believing they were mammals and were genetically related to monkeys.

[thecrashingisles]

2 hours ago, hotairmail said:

I would also say that the EU was forged in a time when geography was more important than language and cultural ties. Like you, I'm not sure that is the case anymore. Times and technology have changed, maybe we should be (maybe we are) changing with them.

If you use such logic to argue that the UK shouldn't be part of the EU it just shows how Eurocentric your thinking is.  It's the narcissism of small differences.  Think how it looks from China and you will see that the EU is a culturally, linguistically, geographically and historically coherent entity.

Edited June 23, 2017 by thecrashingisles

[ExiledMatty]

I wonder how the news last night on a two year grace period will affect Brits looking to keep their future options in the EU open?

If there was some kind of cut off date then I'd come back to Europe and register or do whatever I needed to do in Spain. Could be a wise investment of time as the EU stated that a Brit could still have FOM around the continent.

I assume TM is avoiding a cut off date to stop a last minute rush to the UK. Stating it's between two dates, one of which has already passed, is quite a clever move.