Brexit What Happens Next Thread ---multiple merged threads.

[kzb]

<<As for tax avoidance - that is a bit rich coming from the Netherlands I must say. They rank third as an international tax haven according to a recent Oxfam report>>

They also rank surprisingly highly in the size of our trade with them.  I was wondering some time ago if this tax dodging was the reason it ranked so highly.  If so it means our EU trade contains a significant contribution from tax dodging.

[olliegog]

I found this about the Rotterdam effect (exported goods shipped to the EU ports but ultimately could be destined for outside the EU!)

https://fullfact.org/europe/do-half-uks-exports-go-europe/

 

[cashinmattress]

6 hours ago, spyguy said:

I agree that the EU needs massive reform.

...

The Cons would need to be toppled. Who the fck by?

 

 

 

Indeed. Reform that will exclude the UK from negotiation... maybe?

And the Cons... these turkeys are going to completely fvck us and gift their rich & powerful pals everything.

This whole Brexit ruse is just a smokescreen to take the heat off of our sh1te successive Westminster governments and the decline of Britain by it's own Britons (greedy, ever more dumbed-down, and massively overly entitled by the state)... and ram new legislation down our necks.

And let say in the scenario where Brexit actually occurs.. and say + 3 years from then, whomever is in government will have to find a new bogeyman.

No more EU to scapegoat = Westminster politicians with hands caught in the cookie jar + more surveillance + further restriction in civil rights + jackboot in your back.

These wheezebags laughing it up on our taxes will no longer be able to hide from their own shadows.

Theresa 'Discount Thatcher' May knows this. And I predict she will not be PM for much longer either.

Yep, sad when the only 'opposition' has the personality of a damp carpet, soiled by an old **** hound with a leaky bladder.

[kzb]

13 minutes ago, olliegog said:

I found this about the Rotterdam effect (exported goods shipped to the EU ports but ultimately could be destined for outside the EU!)

https://fullfact.org/europe/do-half-uks-exports-go-europe/

 

Thanks, when you look into it, it seems trade with the EU is probably overestimated.  A significant percentage is due to this Rotterdam staging-post effect skewing the figures.

If we leave the customs union, I am guessing we won't be using Rotterdam as a staging post any more ?

[RiskArb]

14 minutes ago, kzb said:

Thanks, when you look into it, it seems trade with the EU is probably overestimated.  A significant percentage is due to this Rotterdam staging-post effect skewing the figures.

If we leave the customs union, I am guessing we won't be using Rotterdam as a staging post any more ?

No we won't be, we will be using British Ports for British goods!

[RiskArb]

1 hour ago, kzb said:

<<As for tax avoidance - that is a bit rich coming from the Netherlands I must say. They rank third as an international tax haven according to a recent Oxfam report>>

They also rank surprisingly highly in the size of our trade with them.  I was wondering some time ago if this tax dodging was the reason it ranked so highly.  If so it means our EU trade contains a significant contribution from tax dodging.

You could be onto something there...

[Riedquat]

2 hours ago, cashinmattress said:

Indeed. Reform that will exclude the UK from negotiation... maybe?

And the Cons... these turkeys are going to completely fvck us and gift their rich & powerful pals everything.

This whole Brexit ruse is just a smokescreen to take the heat off of our sh1te successive Westminster governments and the decline of Britain by it's own Britons (greedy, ever more dumbed-down, and massively overly entitled by the state)... and ram new legislation down our necks.

...

Yep, sad when the only 'opposition' has the personality of a damp carpet, soiled by an old **** hound with a leaky bladder.

That is the real danger of Brexit, not the greed-obsessed economic bleatings (but still a risk worth taking IMO). That said they'll only be able to blame Brexit for so long, but we desperately need a quality Opposition in the House of Commons. It's not Corbyn's policies that are his problem, not that I'm terribly keen for most of them, but his utter ineffectualnesss, and he's damaging the country because of that.

[long time lurking]

4 hours ago, cashinmattress said:

Indeed. Reform that will exclude the UK from negotiation... maybe?

And the Cons... these turkeys are going to completely fvck us and gift their rich & powerful pals everything.

This whole Brexit ruse is just a smokescreen to take the heat off of our sh1te successive Westminster governments and the decline of Britain by it's own Britons (greedy, ever more dumbed-down, and massively overly entitled by the state)... and ram new legislation down our necks.

 

That describes the last 30 years in the UK very well ...it all happened whilst in the EU

Leaving dose not  guarantee  it will stop ,but history says it would continue if we remained in the EU ....for things to change you must change things 

Edited January 20, 2017 by long time lurking

[F-sake]

^^^

Exactly

[Confusion of VIs]

2 hours ago, long time lurking said:

That describes the last 30 years in the UK very well ...it all happened whilst in the EU

Leaving dose not  guarantee  it will stop ,but history says it would continue if we remained in the EU ....for things to change you must change things 

I would understand that point of view if we were one of the poorest countries in the world and things genuinely could not get worse, but we are one of the richest countries in the world and things can get worse, much worse.

As the EU is not responsible for the state we are in, leaving the EU is a distraction from doing what needs to be done. Possibly a far sighted government could use it as a chance to make necessary reforms while blaming any transitional downsides on Brexit but I am not holding my breath on that.   

[Sheeple Splinter]

13 hours ago, spyguy said:

I agree that the EU needs massive reform.

...

May can, rightly, say she just picked up someone elses mess.

I keep repeating it - Brexit was caused by Brown's idiot tax credits.

...

Labour either have to get rid of Corbyn, or split. if they get rid they need to 10 years to sort themselves out. I doubt they could afford to last that long.

 

 

Hammond, in Davos, blamed Blair today.

True, but nevertheless a curious announcement in the recent flow of events. I mean it's not as though the blues are feeling any heat from the reds and need to resort to the blame game.

Quote

Speaking at the World Economic Forum in Davos, the chancellor launched a strongly worded attack on the former prime minister’s open-door policy when eight former communist countries joined the EU in 2004.

Britain was one of only three countries – alongside Sweden and Ireland – that decided to have no transitional arrangements to limit the flow of people from eastern Europe looking for work and Hammond said the results of that decision were still being felt.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/jan/20/philip-hammond-tony-blair-brexit-davos-immigration

I wonder if Blair is gaining traction behind the scenes? Relative silence since October 2016:

Quote

Tony Blair tries to stoke “insurgent” fight against Brexit, saying decision can be reversed

http://Tony Blair tries to stoke “insurgent” fight against Brexit, saying decision can be reversed

[rollover]

 

Quote

 

UK voters 'in denial' over Brexit

Members of the global elite launched a scathing attack on British voters yesterday – accusing the country of being 'in denial' over Brexit. On the final day of the annual meeting of the World Economic Forum in the upmarket Swiss ski resort of Davos, experts lined up to criticise the UK following the vote to leave the European Union. Experts lined up to criticise the UK following Theresa May's made her landmark speech about Britain's plans for Brexit at the Davos World Economic Forum thisismoney

 

They simply don't like it.

 

Quote

 

George Soros: Donald Trump 'will fail' and Theresa May's Brexit could 'last three days'

The Man Who Broke the Bank of England' delivers damning assessment of incoming president and British PM. Donald Trump is a “would-be dictator” who will fail and Theresa May will not last because of the Brexit “divorce”, billionaire business magnate George Soros has told the Davos world economic forum. Independent

 

 

[Digsby]

On 19/01/2017 at 10:35 AM, DEATH said:

Freedom of movement should always be on a 1 in 1 out basis. So we swap say 10,000 Brits going to China for 10,000 Chinese coming to the UK.

Otherwise we'd have 3 billion Chinese and Indians all heading for the UK.

We wouldn't, because the UK would become so unsufferable that 3 billion would be forced to move away against their wishes.

That's not to contradict your main point though but to back it up.

I wouldn't agree a 1 in 1 out policy is right. It has to be flexible, it has to be for mutual benefit, it has to be monitored, it has to be controlled.

We're animals, we migrate and we flock, but we are territorial too, yet we have empathy. In nature, excess competition is usually resolved by conflict but we avoid conflict if possible, like cats share territory- there is less to go around but as long as we are not starving we'll accept a competitor to avoid conflict.

But cats communicate with each other, they spray to mark their passing, they acknowledge each other and they organise themselves to maximise mutual benefit and minimise conflict.

Human migratory patterns need organisation. Simply throwing borders open without ensuring dispersal is even and agreeable is idiotic.

There is nothing wrong with the concept of freedom of movement, I'm all for it. It's not the idea where the EU has failed, it's the implementation. It should have been introduced much more carefully, perhaps through bilateral agreements, and monitored, with financial incentives introduced where needed to control it.

It's been a while since I've caught up on this thread. Still raging I see. I have to say, on balance I'm still seeing the more sensible arguments coming from the euroskeptic side. 

[Sheeple Splinter]

34 minutes ago, rollover said:

They simply don't like it.

 

Absolutely:

Quote

Critics said the global elite in Davos were out of touch.

City veteran David Buik, an analyst at stockbroker Panmure Gordon, said: 'The WEF delegates preening themselves like peacocks in Davos, a closeted meeting of the aloof, is a classic illustration why populism has grasped the nettle and has taken up arms against the establishment.

'The establishment, big business and politicians only have themselves to blame for Brexit and the election of Donald Trump.'

 

From the same article: http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/markets/article-4141600/UK-denial-Brexit-Davos-elite-hit-Britain.html

[Digsby]

On 19/01/2017 at 6:01 PM, Confusion of VIs said:

You would need to ask the Indian and Chinese governments that, they are the ones linking the two.

But at a guess the we want your money and trade but not your filthy stinking people is a message that doesn't go down well.

You're a nasty peice of work, aren't you? How on earth do you equate "we're already struggling with the population we have, thanks" with "we don't want your filthy people"?

We're the most culturally diverse country in Europe, and probably among the most on the planet. You've travelled a bit IIRC, have you been to many places where racial tensions are lower? Or in circumstances where you'd actually know? I haven't travelled much, but having a Chinese wife I can tell you that this is where she feels least prejudice. We have been made to feel uncomfortable in other countries, to the extent of having to hear "Jackie chan" uttered several times a day.

If the people of this country are racist then they are no more so than most of the rest of the world imo, and probably among the very least, because we're so diverse. A pretty large number of us are filthy, stinking people.

[Sheeple Splinter]

Following on from posts above:

 

The comments section is worth a read too.

https://yougov.co.uk/news/2017/01/19/voting-intention-conservatives-42-labour-25/

[Confusion of VIs]

54 minutes ago, Digsby said:

You're a nasty peice of work, aren't you? How on earth do you equate "we're already struggling with the population we have, thanks" with "we don't want your filthy people"?

We're the most culturally diverse country in Europe, and probably among the most on the planet. You've travelled a bit IIRC, have you been to many places where racial tensions are lower? Or in circumstances where you'd actually know? I haven't travelled much, but having a Chinese wife I can tell you that this is where she feels least prejudice. We have been made to feel uncomfortable in other countries, to the extent of having to hear "Jackie chan" uttered several times a day.

If the people of this country are racist then they are no more so than most of the rest of the world imo, and probably among the very least, because we're so diverse. A pretty large number of us are filthy, stinking people.

I don't. I was being sarcastic, with a bit of hyperbole thrown in about some of the other hyperbolic comments being made about FoM.

Still your comment makes a change, usually I am being criticised from the opposite direction.  

[thecrashingisles]

http://news.sky.com/story/tony-blair-to-blame-for-brexit-says-philip-hammond-10735571

Hammond blames Blair for Brexit.

[long time lurking]

2 hours ago, Confusion of VIs said:

I would understand that point of view if we were one of the poorest countries in the world and things genuinely could not get worse, but we are one of the richest countries in the world and things can get worse, much worse.

As the EU is not responsible for the state we are in, leaving the EU is a distraction from doing what needs to be done. Possibly a far sighted government could use it as a chance to make necessary reforms while blaming any transitional downsides on Brexit but I am not holding my breath on that.   

Well carrying on  doing the  same will never achieve that ,a vote for the same gets you the same 

It`s easy to identify the problems solving them is whole different ball game

[long time lurking]

16 minutes ago, Confusion of VIs said:

I don't. I was being sarcastic, with a bit of hyperbole thrown in about some of the other hyperbolic comments being made about FoM.

Still your comment makes a change, usually I am being criticised from the opposite direction.  

Where ?

 

[Confusion of VIs]

11 minutes ago, long time lurking said:

Where ?

 

Don't you think the posts about 2.6bn or 3bn people coming over here to claim benefits were a bit hyperbolic. I do. at least I hope they were.   

 

[the gardener]

6 hours ago, Confusion of VIs said:

Don't you think the posts about 2.6bn or 3bn people coming over here to claim benefits were a bit hyperbolic. I do. at least I hope they were.   

 

Yes but nobody talked about filthy, stinking people. Until you did.

[spyguy]

7 hours ago, thecrashingisles said:

http://news.sky.com/story/tony-blair-to-blame-for-brexit-says-philip-hammond-10735571

Hammond blames Blair for Brexit.

Blair had two faults - letting Brown jn and run riot, invading Iraq to support Dubya.

Were fcked on the first.

We can send him to the ICCU. The effect on the ME demands that Blair is jail for life.

[Riedquat]

9 hours ago, long time lurking said:

Well carrying on  doing the  same will never achieve that ,a vote for the same gets you the same 

It`s easy to identify the problems solving them is whole different ball game

It's easier to identify problems but a lot of the time the lack of a solution results in denial of there being a problem in the first place. How often have you heard "Well how do you think it should be fixed then?" when someone suggests that something is a problem? The idea that there's no problem if you can't think of a solution means there never will be a solution. Furthermore looking at the EU's behaviour (for example, seen it elsewhere too) they've not even got that far, the very idea that there could be a problem appears alien to them.

[long time lurking]

2 hours ago, the gardener said:

Yes but nobody talked about filthy, stinking people. Until you did.

Exactly the irony is lost on them