Brexit What Happens Next Thread ---multiple merged threads.

[HairyOb1]

6 minutes ago, kzb said:

A mindset has developed in the management class.

Recruitment has been handed over to agencies.

These sources off-the-shelf persons from all over EU.

Unfortunately you run out of off-the-shelf employees eventually when the job entails experience and qualifications.

It all wants stamping out actually.

Bull shit kzb.  It's a flexible approach to working which many have chosen, as it's lucrative.

As for Unfortunately you run out of off-the-shelf employees eventually when the job entails experience and qualifications.  that palpable nonsense.  The more you work, the more experience you gain, be that as your own person through an agency or consultancy, or as an employee.

I source my folk from the internet, and I don't give two shits where they are from, if they have the right to work, and the experience I require.

Jealousy is an inherently vile thing.

[HairyOb1]

21 minutes ago, Riedquat said:

Gosh, how did we survive before we imported a lot of it, and with less efficient farming methods? Could this be part of why some of us don't want more people and see the stupidity of mass immigration?

I know, the 50's and 60's were perfect, in winter we ate stews of root vegetables, and in simmer whatever there was.  It was a green and pleasant land and all was good in the world....

21 minutes ago, EmmaRoid said:

It’s why I posted the EE migration story. How do you unwind this FOM disaster? 

If people leave to go home, the host suffers. If they don’t go home, their country of origin suffers.

What then? The countries of origin get immigrants from somewhere else? Wtf?

Can’t we all just get along living in our own countries, allow freedom of movement to travel and work but have measures in place to prevent destructive migratory patterns?

Cue sparkling unicorns, fields of lush hay and farmer walking from farm to farm for the harvest....

Honestly, it's utterly amazing.

[knock out johnny]

24 minutes ago, Riedquat said:

Gosh, how did we survive before we imported a lot of it, and with less efficient farming methods? Could this be part of why some of us don't want more people and see the stupidity of mass immigration?

We ate bland crap food - i know going back to 1952 is your dream but it's not mine

[anonlymouse]

5 minutes ago, HairyOb1 said:

Felds of lush hay

You could even be really naughty and run through them! The farmers got very annoyed!

[19 year mortgage 8itch]

5 minutes ago, HairyOb1 said:

I know, the 50's and 60's were perfect, in winter we ate stews of root vegetables, and in simmer whatever there was.  It was a green and pleasant land and all was good in the world....

Cue sparkling unicorns, fields of lush hay and farmer walking from farm to farm for the harvest....

Honestly, it's utterly amazing.

It’s a bit rich you throwing in unicorns when you are such a proponent of European peace and harmony.

[Riedquat]

6 minutes ago, HairyOb1 said:

I know, the 50's and 60's were perfect, in winter we ate stews of root vegetables, and in simmer whatever there was.  It was a green and pleasant land and all

You do realise that being able to be self-sufficient doesn't mean that we can't import other foods too if we want (and export some of what we grow elsewhere)?

Probably was a pleasanter land in the most part though, at least outside cities (a lot of wartorn dumps of cities in the 50s). Definitely getting less green and pleasant these days at any rate (but who cares because that's not the economy?)

[HairyOb1]

24 minutes ago, EmmaRoid said:

It’s a bit rich you throwing in unicorns when you are such a proponent of European peace and harmony.

Yes, I know, being a supporter of something that is real, proven, is exactly the same as a mythical land of cake and eating it, which was your proposal - Lets all stay where we are, but also move about freely...

[HairyOb1]

22 minutes ago, Riedquat said:

You do realise that being able to be self-sufficient doesn't mean that we can't import other foods too if we want (and export some of what we grow elsewhere)?

Probably was a pleasanter land in the most part though, at least outside cities (a lot of wartorn dumps of cities in the 50s). Definitely getting less green and pleasant these days at any rate (but who cares because that's not the economy?)

It's all well and good wishing it, I grow an awful lot of my own stuff in summer as it actually tastes nicer (toms and cucumbers especially), it's fairly easy (I don't anyone who cannot grow courgettes) and therapeutic.  However, it's been stated by the FU that it's not only theoretically impossible, it's physically impossible to have any levels of self sufficiency in food.  If we import, we'll pay tariffs, more than likely, most definitely if we don't get a deal.  The EU can be self sufficient in food.

[ZeroSumGame]

39 minutes ago, kzb said:

A mindset has developed in the management class.

Recruitment has been handed over to agencies.

These sources off-the-shelf persons from all over EU. 1.

Unfortunately you run out of off-the-shelf employees eventually when the job entails experience and qualifications. 2.

It all wants stamping out actually.

Nah. Wrong.

 

1. India alone has 2 million Java programmers. China has a lot of I.T. offshoring too. Nothing to do with the E.U. I've managed teams of both ...long long time ago.

2. Unlimited immigration from Asia, Central and South America, and indeed from the poorer U.S. of A. states.....as far as I.T. is concerned.

Every single major consultancy the world over has a head count in the tens of thousands in India. Every single one - management or technical consultancies. I've recruited from databases of 50,000 people. Visas absolute formality.  Get rid of the Europeans and they'll be replaced by Asians or from other third countries.

 

@Hob1  has made  the step up from contracting to consultancy. Very,very few make that step successfully.

[Riedquat]

3 minutes ago, HairyOb1 said:

It's all well and good wishing it, I grow an awful lot of my own stuff in summer as it actually tastes nicer (toms and cucumbers especially), it's fairly easy (I don't anyone who cannot grow courgettes) and therapeutic.  However, it's been stated by the FU that it's not only theoretically impossible, it's physically impossible to have any levels of self sufficiency in food.  If we import, we'll pay tariffs, more than likely, most definitely if we don't get a deal.  The EU can be self sufficient in food.

Yes, that's the current situation. I'd like to set a goal of reversing that, rather than just shrug and let it get worse, or even worse encourage that contiuation of a change in the wrong direction.

Must be doing something wrong with the toms though, they're only startening to ripen now, which is getting a bit late. Same with the chilis. Only my second year of trying though. The cucumbers worked out well enough.

[HairyOb1]

6 minutes ago, Riedquat said:

Yes, that's the current situation. I'd like to set a goal of reversing that, rather than just shrug and let it get worse, or even worse encourage that contiuation of a change in the wrong direction.

Must be doing something wrong with the toms though, they're only startening to ripen now, which is getting a bit late. Same with the chilis. Only my second year of trying though. The cucumbers worked out well enough.

I would like to see it reversing, but it's going to cost more, and if we're accepting that, then that's fine.  When we, eventually, retire, I'll try growing at least 80's of my food, and we'll be in an area where it would be feasible.  Can be hard work tho.

My Grandfather taught me how to grow Toms.  Off topic I know, but they were wonderful and a great part of visiting him in summer were the salads.  He taught me about toms so mine never fail, although I have lost a plant or two to blight in the past.  Chillies I have been growing for years, you just have to start them off early (late feb/march) indoors (more or less like the toms) and only go outside when frosts are done (And be prepared to bring them back in quick smart when it's v cold but not frosty).  But the effects are wonderful.  We grew 6 varieties of toms this year, including Orange cherry toms, which were like sweets.  I grew But Jolokia Chillies one year.  Hard work, and not worth it, as they are almost inedible!

If I had any advice, start early and with the toms, don't let plants grow from the joins in the stems and limit them to 4 levels of flowers.  If that makes sense.  Sun, lots of water.  Might also sound insane, but also piss in a bottle and feed that to them once a week too (Grand father tip).  Acts like a fertiliser as it happens.

Edited October 17, 2017 by HairyOb1

[Riedquat]

Cheers for the veg tips, I definitely started too late. Knew about the stems but not about the height. I wound up in a place with a greenhouse so decided I may as well try to make use of it. Good to know that despite the bickering it can all be dropped at a hat for a bit of friendly advice, before we get back to insulting each other

Edited October 17, 2017 by Riedquat

[Sheeple Splinter]

14 hours ago, Confusion of VIs said:

As you should, and probably do, know forecasts provide a central case around which you can plan. As such they cannot "prove accurate" as the eventual outcome will be influenced by numerous factors that are not known at the time the forecast is made. In such circumstance an "accurate" forecast is simply one where by chance the various unknown and unpredictable factors cancel each other out.

The real question is if you are not going to base planning assumptions/decisions on forecasts what are you going to use.

In expecting the country to be better off outside the EU in 10-20 years, the Brexiters have clearly decided to use fantasy. To be totally fair this outcome is not outside the range of possible outcomes predicted by mainstream forecasters - although IIRC it was somewhere in the 0% to 5% range band.         

Old ground, forecasts do have their place. 

Don't you think that disclaimer should accompany every forecast? One would hope that would focus some minds in the politico/MSM world... even on HPC! 

[Sheeple Splinter]

15 hours ago, EmmaRoid said:

And we will be the whipping boy...

I'm sure there are entities positioning themselves to lash the UK for GFC2 as well.

[Tapori]

3 hours ago, Riedquat said:

Gosh, how did we survive before we imported a lot of it, and with less efficient farming methods? Could this be part of why some of us don't want more people and see the stupidity of mass immigration?

CAP policy obviously has nothing to do with their absurd statement

[kzb]

1 hour ago, HairyOb1 said:

Bull shit kzb.  It's a flexible approach to working which many have chosen, as it's lucrative.

As for Unfortunately you run out of off-the-shelf employees eventually when the job entails experience and qualifications.  that palpable nonsense.  The more you work, the more experience you gain, be that as your own person through an agency or consultancy, or as an employee.

I source my folk from the internet, and I don't give two shits where they are from, if they have the right to work, and the experience I require.

Jealousy is an inherently vile thing.

Look how much nurse agencies cost the NHS.

You give people proper careers.  Train and educate young people into long term jobs so they have security and the ability to form families.

This is what 98% of employment should look like.

Employment agencies may have uses for small numbers of people and those who want temporary but high paid employment.  That's all.  It should be a niche market not the mainstay.

 

[kzb]

26 minutes ago, Sheeple Splinter said:

Old ground, forecasts do have their place. 

Don't you think that disclaimer should accompany every forecast? One would hope that would focus some minds in the politico/MSM world... even on HPC! 

I still cannot get my head round the BBC Weather, where apparently, "the forecast may change".  What?

[Riedquat]

1 minute ago, kzb said:

I still cannot get my head round the BBC Weather, where apparently, "the forecast may change".  What?

What you need is a forecast of the forecast.

[Confusion of VIs]

18 minutes ago, Sheeple Splinter said:

Old ground, forecasts do have their place. 

Don't you think that disclaimer should accompany every forecast? One would hope that would focus some minds in the politico/MSM world... even on HPC! 

They usually do come with pages and pages of information describing the factors modeled, their reliability of otherwise, and lots of external factors that have the potential to  invalidate the forecast. Reading these will give you a good idea of how credible or not the predictions are.

However, all this bumf does not make for good copy so is almost always ignored:  

E.g. the Treasuries forecast of the impact of a Leave vote assumed that A50 would be submitted within days and that the Treasury/BOE would do nothing to mitigate the impact of the vote. Given that it was obvious prior to the vote that neither of these major factors was true, you would have expected any informed observer to conclude that the report had no credibility, strangely  I don't recall a single paper picking up on this.     

[ThoughtCriminal]

2 hours ago, rollover said:

 

The 50 billion the EU is asking for everything start looking like peanuts.

You might want to look into how weful oecd forecasts are.

 

Well, if you weren't a bigot you might.......

[HairyOb1]

2 minutes ago, ThoughtCriminal said:

You might want to look into how weful oecd forecasts are.

Well, if you weren't a bigot you might.......

...and the government figures, given they've 'lost' £500bn.

If you weren't so hell bent on bull shitting.

[Sheeple Splinter]

6 hours ago, HairyOb1 said:

1.  Not bigotry, sorry buddy, just hate what some idiots are trying to do to the country.  I openly hope they get the full 9 yards of what they voted for.

2.  No, it is a democracy, which leads to freedom of speech: they don't have to disagree with me, they don't have to agree with me, it's their choice.  What I said it correct.  British people are closer in culture to Europeans than Asians.  It's not racist, it is an irrefutable fact, a historical fact, a proper fact fact.

3.  Sorry, it's not obfuscation in the slightest (although I did chortle at you of all people using that word), as I have not only answered it, I have also ridiculed it, as I repeat, I don't have the issues you say - You keep saying "You have posted several times about your concerns regarding non-EU visa applicants e.g. Right to reside, bringing family over, undercutting wages, paying less tax..."  but I have not once said I have concerns about it, those are your words, not mine, mine were, and are, I have utterly no issue with ALL FOM.  All I pointed out, is that this is the other form of migration we'll have, which we will.  How can you suggest any of my words suggest I have an issue with it, when I have openly said that 1) I agree in open borders and full FOM and 2) That it was put there as a suggestion all leavers are doing is swapping one form of immigration for another.

...and it's intuitive you didn't answer my questions (). Here they are again, let's see you answer these:

Quick couple of questions for you:
A.  Do you think we're culturally the same as Asians?  
B.  Do you think our business culture is the same as Asia?

Come back once you've answered these, no more obfuscation please, just answer the questions.

 

1. Priceless!

Quote

bigotry

ˈbɪɡətri/

noun

1. intolerance towards those who hold different opinions from oneself.

2. Your original quote:

Quote

"Without wanting to sound bigoted, as I am not, I do believe, culturally, we have more in common with our EU cousins than we do with our asian ones.."

  Your, ahem, amended quote from above:

Quote

"British people are closer in culture to Europeans than Asians. It's not racist, it is an irrefutable fact, a historical fact, a proper fact fact."

Are you a member of EDL?

Quote

...These figures prompt a number of interesting questions. Why did some South Asians vote for a campaign that was, at times, seen as bigoted and xenophobic? Why did a number of middle-class South Asians (most notably those living in West London) not vote in a way which their socio-economic status would predict?

One reason might be that many voters within the British South Asian diaspora don’t feel European. When the Remain campaign sought to appeal to a sense of European identity, and warned that people were about to lose that identity, it didn’t make for a particularly convincing argument.

First-generation migrants from India, Pakistan and Bangladesh were encouraged to integrate under a social policy based on the adoption of “British values”. Being absorbed into a “European collective” was never, in reality, really part of that integration process. The pro-Commonwealth rhetoric coming from the Leave camp, on the other hand, would have pulled on the heartstrings of many South Asian voters.

The Commonwealth argument became particularly interesting when the Leave campaign talked about immigration. Prominent Leave campaigners such as Michael Gove often claimed that the EU was essentially forcing Britain to implement a “racist” immigration system. While predominantly white EU migrants were allowed to freely enter the UK, those from the Indian subcontinent were subject to visa and work restrictions. Voting Brexit was seen as an opportunity to “level out” this in-built unfairness.

As for the supposedly xenophobic and racist elements of the Leave campaign, it could simply be the case that many well-integrated, South Asian voters who strongly identify with the UK were left unoffended. The “target” was perceived to be Eastern Europeans originating from non-Commonwealth countries who were taking advantage of freedom of movement...

http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexit/2017/02/20/the-british-asian-vote-for-brexit-contains-a-few-surprises/

3. To be continued...

[kzb]

1 hour ago, ZeroSumGame said:

Nah. Wrong.

 

1. India alone has 2 million Java programmers. China has a lot of I.T. offshoring too. Nothing to do with the E.U. I've managed teams of both ...long long time ago.

2. Unlimited immigration from Asia, Central and South America, and indeed from the poorer U.S. of A. states.....as far as I.T. is concerned.

Every single major consultancy the world over has a head count in the tens of thousands in India. Every single one - management or technical consultancies. I've recruited from databases of 50,000 people. Visas absolute formality.  Get rid of the Europeans and they'll be replaced by Asians or from other third countries.

 

@Hob1  has made  the step up from contracting to consultancy. Very,very few make that step successfully.

Is EVERYONE on here in software ?

No wonder there is hardly any sense on this forum.

[HairyOb1]

1 minute ago, Sheeple Splinter said:

1. Priceless!

2. Your original quote:

  Your, ahem, amended quote from above:

Are you a member of EDL?

http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexit/2017/02/20/the-british-asian-vote-for-brexit-contains-a-few-surprises/

3. To be continued...

You're a bit of a dick aren't you Sheeple.  You sledge me, yet refuse to answer the questions raised, that would indicate you know it's factual.

Answer me this, come on: do you think we have more in common culturally with Europeans or Asians.

I'm all ears.  However, it's deafeningly enlightening how you're avoiding answering the question, concentrating on obfuscating around the answer you know you will give, were you to have the actual capacity to answer it truthfully.  This shouts out more about you, than anything about me mate.

[ccc]

A fair few on this thread have more culturally in common with a cucumber or tomato.