ChewingGrass Posted November 3, 2016 Share Posted November 3, 2016 4 minutes ago, thecrashingisles said: The Brexiteers are a juvenile bunch. Was originally concieved as Brown out Brown but he left office before there was time to get it organised for his next budget speech. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Hun Posted November 3, 2016 Share Posted November 3, 2016 (edited) Mass refusal to collect their (index linked) pensions will bring us to our knees. Apparently. Edited November 3, 2016 by Peter Hun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cock-eyed octopus Posted November 3, 2016 Share Posted November 3, 2016 12 minutes ago, thecrashingisles said: The Brexiteers are a juvenile bunch. That really takes the debate forward. Well done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thecrashingisles Posted November 3, 2016 Share Posted November 3, 2016 1 minute ago, ****-eyed octopus said: That really takes the debate forward. Well done. Whereas plans to overwhelm the national grid do what? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cock-eyed octopus Posted November 3, 2016 Share Posted November 3, 2016 Comments from another site: Todays court judgement puts at question every single EU directive that has not been approved by Parliament and effectively negates the concept of Brussels supremacy and by doing so effectively undermines the whole of the Lisbon Treaty - the powers the government were claiming are exactly the powers that enabled the Lisbon Treaty to be supreme, so if the government doesn't have that power then presumably it never has had and the way in which EU directives have been implemented since 2008, in many cases, may have been illegal Presumably now, every single edict from Brussels will have to be fully reviewed and voted on by Parliament By my reckoning, that renders us out of the EU by default Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billybong Posted November 3, 2016 Share Posted November 3, 2016 (edited) 5 hours ago, hotairmail said: now It is not the same government. I believe that constitutionally speaking, May was asked to form a new government from amongst Her MP's by the Queen. ( I know, it's all bullsh!t). Fair point about government continuity but it was the position of the original government voted in at the 2015 general election which doesn't make it any less complicated etc especially as the leading government figures apparently now enabling Leave were all for Remain before the referendum. Even so the pre referendum government was apparently committed to the referendum decision as is the post referendum government - apparently. Edited November 3, 2016 by billybong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChewingGrass Posted November 3, 2016 Share Posted November 3, 2016 1 minute ago, thecrashingisles said: Whereas plans to overwhelm the national grid do what? Provide an instantaeous voting mechanism, which is why they are rolling out smart meters to finger the guilty fingers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cock-eyed octopus Posted November 3, 2016 Share Posted November 3, 2016 4 minutes ago, thecrashingisles said: Whereas plans to overwhelm the national grid do what? Provide a peaceful means of protest? I don't know, I'm not endorsing it. But i'm not on here calling remainers a bunch of craven, supine autoeroticists with a benefits mentality. Because I don't stoop to insults. Oh no. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giggler000 Posted November 3, 2016 Share Posted November 3, 2016 4 hours ago, Futuroid said: Boris is way ahead of you... https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/jun/10/boris-johnson-london-mayor-water-cannon-metropolitan-police Irony deluxe. Quickest way to get a new gov in - 'member the pole tax riots... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rollover Posted November 3, 2016 Share Posted November 3, 2016 5 minutes ago, ****-eyed octopus said: Provide a peaceful means of protest? I don't know, I'm not endorsing it. But i'm not on here calling remainers a bunch of craven, supine autoeroticists with a benefits mentality. Because I don't stoop to insults. Oh no. Yes, you indirectly do. Get over your frustration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cock-eyed octopus Posted November 3, 2016 Share Posted November 3, 2016 1 minute ago, rollover said: Yes, you indirectly do. Get over your frustration. Get over yours. You lost. What are you worried about anyway? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shindigger Posted November 3, 2016 Share Posted November 3, 2016 1 minute ago, satch said: People have been saying for ages that the EU in-out vote was non-binding and only advisory, I guess even before 23 June. It seems that governments do not check if what they are doing can be vetoed at any point. Osborne had the same when the Lords stopped some of his finance changes because they were not implemented / proposed in the correct way to stop them being blocked by the Lords. If all that is required is a Yes - No vote then get the MPs in, vote and let that be an end to it. If the MPs vote against the will of the people then May can call a vote of no confidence in the government or other action (as per fixed parliament act) and force an election. Would create chaos and probably end the career of any MP who voted against the will of the people (bar Scottish MPs). But we should never, given the importance of the EU In-Out decision, be in the position where a bunch of rich self-interests can even question the In-Out vote cats by the people. If she called an election under those circumstances, she could finish Labour in the north. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giggler000 Posted November 3, 2016 Share Posted November 3, 2016 1 hour ago, Byron said: What is Corbyn's view of it? Anybody know? Don't know about Corbyn but I wish Cameron was more like Enoch Powell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chunketh Posted November 3, 2016 Share Posted November 3, 2016 32 minutes ago, ChewingGrass said: Provide an instantaeous voting mechanism, which is why they are rolling out smart meters to finger the guilty fingers. Or they just turn off the power to residential areas and see who quits first Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
long time lurking Posted November 3, 2016 Share Posted November 3, 2016 3 minutes ago, Chunketh said: Or they just turn off the power to residential areas and see who quits first Pull the residential area switch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chunketh Posted November 3, 2016 Share Posted November 3, 2016 14 minutes ago, satch said: People have been saying for ages that the EU in-out vote was non-binding and only advisory, I guess even before 23 June. It seems that governments do not check if what they are doing can be vetoed at any point. Osborne had the same when the Lords stopped some of his finance changes because they were not implemented / proposed in the correct way to stop them being blocked by the Lords. If all that is required is a Yes - No vote then get the MPs in, vote and let that be an end to it. If the MPs vote against the will of the people then May can call a vote of no confidence in the government or other action (as per fixed parliament act) and force an election. Would create chaos and probably end the career of any MP who voted against the will of the people (bar Scottish MPs). But we should never, given the importance of the EU In-Out decision, be in the position where a bunch of rich self-interests can even question the In-Out vote cast by the people. You are assuming that the non-voters will support brexit....they wont. You also need to take into consideration that you will have say 500,000 extra of age voters that will vote overwhelmingly on the remain side and 500,00 deaths that will vote overwhelmingly in the opposite direction. Couple that with the regret voters and non-voters that wont make the same mistake again and you will be in for a shock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chunketh Posted November 3, 2016 Share Posted November 3, 2016 I should have said the dead WONT vote...oops Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheeple Splinter Posted November 3, 2016 Share Posted November 3, 2016 (edited) Deja-vu: Maastricht Quote In the United Kingdom, an opt-out from the treaty's social provisions was opposed in Parliament by the opposition Labour and Liberal Democrat MPs and the treaty itself by the Maastricht Rebels within the governing Conservative Party. The number of rebels exceeded the Conservative majority in the House of Commons, and thus the government of John Major came close to losing the confidence of the House.[10] In accordance with British constitutional convention, specifically that of parliamentary sovereignty, ratification in the UK was not subject to approval by referendum. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maastricht_Treaty Lisbon Quote United Kingdom – High Court[edit] A case was brought against the UK government by Stuart Wheeler. Mr Wheeler claimed the government was legally bound by an election promise to hold a referendum on the Lisbon Treaty. The government asserted that the promise was no longer valid as it was the Constitutional Treaty for which a referendum was promised, and that the Lisbon Treaty was fundamentally different in content and in nature (being an amending treaty rather than a constitution). The court could not find anything unlawful in the government's ratification of the treaty and the case was rejected. The case was appealed but was once more rejected. During the period of the trial the government refrained from fully ratifying the treaty. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ratification_of_the_Treaty_of_Lisbon So lessons should have been learnt; apart from incompetence, negligence and dereliction of duty, words fail me... It is such a relief that UKproductive is causing economic forecasts to be revised up. Tick Tock Edited November 3, 2016 by Sheeple Splinter links added Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Lorne Posted November 3, 2016 Share Posted November 3, 2016 (edited) 20 minutes ago, Chunketh said: You are assuming that the non-voters will support brexit....they wont. You also need to take into consideration that you will have say 500,000 extra of age voters that will vote overwhelmingly on the remain side and 500,00 deaths that will vote overwhelmingly in the opposite direction. Couple that with the regret voters and non-voters that wont make the same mistake again and you will be in for a shock. ...yes the pigs will still wish to keep their snouts in the Euro trough for their own vested interests........the only problem for them is that 'Union' is likely to implode with elections in France and Germany next year and the state of their financial systems including the currency at risk...there may be no place for the 'remainers' to remain...... Edited November 3, 2016 by South Lorne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikhail Liebenstein Posted November 3, 2016 Share Posted November 3, 2016 18 minutes ago, satch said: People have been saying for ages that the EU in-out vote was non-binding and only advisory, I guess even before 23 June. It seems that governments do not check if what they are doing can be vetoed at any point. Osborne had the same when the Lords stopped some of his finance changes because they were not implemented / proposed in the correct way to stop them being blocked by the Lords. If all that is required is a Yes - No vote then get the MPs in, vote and let that be an end to it. If the MPs vote against the will of the people then May can call a vote of no confidence in the government or other action (as per fixed parliament act) and force an election. Would create chaos and probably end the career of any MP who voted against the will of the people (bar Scottish MPs). But we should never, given the importance of the EU In-Out decision, be in the position where a bunch of rich self-interests can even question the In-Out vote cast by the people. I'm a strong remainer as most will know, but I am not going to gloat over this legal decision, all I will say is that the legal decision is a correct legal decision. The point now is that it is up to Parliament, and as I said weeks ago, Parliament is Sovereign and Theresa May's approach is/was clearly ultra vires. What will be interesting is if the Government decides to pursue an appeal in the courts. To my mind, this shows that they are just stalling article 50 and aren't serious on Brexit. If the Government is serious then they will take the article 50 decision to Parliament. Of course, the irony of this is that is points out what people have said all along about the Brexit vote note being binding and only advisory. But guess what, MPs are meant to represent the wishes/best interest of their electors and the country, so I guess this ultimately comes down to democracy. I'm happy to stand by the decision of Parliament, certainly happier than standing by a decision made by a combo of May, Davis, Fox and Patel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
londislagerhound Posted November 3, 2016 Share Posted November 3, 2016 There will be no Brexit. I cannot believe for one moment that this was not thought through beforehand and I'd imagine that someone with half a brain said "well even if we lose we'll get someone to bring a legal case, spin it out for five years and then hopefully it will all be forgotten. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Lorne Posted November 3, 2016 Share Posted November 3, 2016 2 minutes ago, Mikhail Liebenstein said: I'm a strong remainer as most will know, but I am not going to gloat over this legal decision, all I will say is that the legal decision is a correct legal decision. The point now is that it is up to Parliament, and as I said weeks ago, Parliament is Sovereign and Theresa May's approach is/was clearly ultra vires. What will be interesting is if the Government decides to pursue an appeal in the courts. To my mind, this shows that they are just stalling article 50 and aren't serious on Brexit. If the Government is serious then they will take the article 50 decision to Parliament. Of course, the irony of this is that is points out what people have said all along about the Brexit vote note being binding and only advisory. But guess what, MPs are meant to represent the wishes/best interest of their electors and the country, so I guess this ultimately comes down to democracy. I'm happy to stand by the decision of Parliament, certainly happier than standing by a decision made by a combo of May, Davis, Fox and Patel. ...the only true test is an immediate General Election ...then we will have a Parliament which represents the people ..the way Labour have messed up we no longer have a democracy ..after all do we wish to be the last net contributor in the 'Union' to remain ...the rest will 'get out' before we do ..maybe you wish to stay as the last pig in the trough...I don't ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chunketh Posted November 3, 2016 Share Posted November 3, 2016 3 minutes ago, South Lorne said: ...yes the pigs will still wish to keep their snouts in the Euro trough for their own vested interests........the only problem for them is that 'Union' is like implode with elections in France and Germany next year and the state of their financial systems including the currency at risk...there may be no place for the 'remainers' to remain...... Yes lets celebrate it! After all, its not kept the peace for 70 years. The EU needs to reform, oh god it does, but the alternative is horrible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Lorne Posted November 3, 2016 Share Posted November 3, 2016 1 minute ago, Chunketh said: Yes lets celebrate it! After all, its not kept the peace for 70 years. The EU needs to reform, oh god it does, but the alternative is horrible. ...the EU as an institution run by the unelected is not fit for purpose and should be disbanded.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chunketh Posted November 3, 2016 Share Posted November 3, 2016 10 minutes ago, Mikhail Liebenstein said: I'm a strong remainer as most will know, but I am not going to gloat over this legal decision, all I will say is that the legal decision is a correct legal decision. The point now is that it is up to Parliament, and as I said weeks ago, Parliament is Sovereign and Theresa May's approach is/was clearly ultra vires. What will be interesting is if the Government decides to pursue an appeal in the courts. To my mind, this shows that they are just stalling article 50 and aren't serious on Brexit. If the Government is serious then they will take the article 50 decision to Parliament. Of course, the irony of this is that is points out what people have said all along about the Brexit vote note being binding and only advisory. But guess what, MPs are meant to represent the wishes/best interest of their electors and the country, so I guess this ultimately comes down to democracy. I'm happy to stand by the decision of Parliament, certainly happier than standing by a decision made by a combo of May, Davis, Fox and Patel. This. If I don't like it I will just vote with my feet and leave. Its got to be a tactic. The supreme court will shoot them down in flames because they don't have a leg to stand on. If by some twist(ing) of arms they do win the claimants will take it to the European court and it will be stuck there for a good while (probably on a timetable) before they rule against the government. The better tactic, if you wanted to invoke, would be to start talking and getting it debated, but nooo, our glorious leaders want carte blanche to do what the hell they like....that tells me they are either deluded power hungry morons, or its part of a grand plan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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