51 Yes 49 No - Rumoured Yougov Poll Tomorrow

[interestrateripoff]

http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2014/sep/08/le-pen-tops-presidential-poll-for-first-time-ever?CMP=twt_gu

Unprecedented in France: Front National's Le Pen tops presidential poll for first time

Polls out in the past few days in France have shown far-right Front National leader Marine Le Pen topping a presidential poll for the first time. This matters as supporters of main parties may no longer be doubling up to push out Front National. Meanwhile, President Hollande’s popularity has hit an unprecedented low.

Are the French turning towards the Nationalists?

[moneyfornothing]

I don't understand.. Would they have gone all 'independence' if the oil wasn't there ... Looks to me like people and politicians promising themselves unearned wealth...

[Goat]

http://armstrongeconomics.com/2014/09/10/spain-is-militarizing-against-citizens-the-coming-civil-war/

Goya’s painting of the brutal treatment of citizens during the Spanish Civil War is a reminder of what we could face in the aftermath of the militarization of Spain against its own citizens

It's certainly getting interesting. A yes vote to destablise Europe?

It would be even more intersting if the author were aware that Francisco de Goya died 108 years before the outbreak of the Spanish civil war and the painting he refers to (titled "the third of May 1808") depicts acts perpetrated by French soldiers against Spanish civilians during the Peninsular war (1807-1814).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Third_of_May_1808

Bit a credibility gap there wouldn't you say?

Edited September 11, 2014 by Goat

[geezer466]

One thing that has struck me, reading the many comments columns in the various press websites, is that the "Yes" camp seems to have the support of the cream of the worlds gibbering idiots.

I just read a comment where someone encouraged Scotland's armed resistance to colonial occupation "like the wars of independence of Australia, Canada and New Zealand!".

WTF would Scotland look like, if all the grown-ups leave, and these sorts of people are left in charge? Unbelievable..

[thecrashingisles]

http://www.lemonde.fr/europe/article/2014/09/11/les-independantistes-catalans-defient-madrid_4485466_3214.html

Half a million Catalans in the streets of Barcelona demand independence, inspired by the Scottish referendum. Organisers claim 1.8 million were there.

[shindigger]

Scottish bairns are quite bright methinks.

[Corruption]

One thing that has struck me, reading the many comments columns in the various press websites, is that the "Yes" camp seems to have the support of the cream of the worlds gibbering idiots.

I just read a comment where someone encouraged Scotland's armed resistance to colonial occupation "like the wars of independence of Australia, Canada and New Zealand!".

WTF would Scotland look like, if all the grown-ups leave, and these sorts of people are left in charge? Unbelievable..

Ahh the status quo lovers and their constant insults, as boringly predictable as ever.

[Saving For a Space Ship]

[R K]

YouGov ‏@YouGov 23m

Latest YouGov #IndyRef poll for the Sun/the Times: NO 52% (+3), YES 48% (-3) - http://y-g.co/1pcg5vA pic.twitter.com/t4506Xtfa2

[South Lorne]

I wouldn't post those Yougov polls. I feel the evil hand of Murdoch at work.

...Murdoch is pro the yes vote....what's your problem....he has Scottish connections .....

[R K]

I wouldn't post those Yougov polls. I feel the evil hand of Murdoch at work.

36,000 views and 850 replies in 3 days says you're wrong.

But of course Murdoch wants to give the British Establishment a good kicking.

[South Lorne]

36,000 views and 850 replies in 3 days says you're wrong.

But of course Murdoch wants to give the British Establishment a good kicking.

..true...and his Scottishness is the vehicle....

[Goat]

Confused with Picasso's Guernica?

Possibly, 3rd May is cited as an influence on that picture, but quite frankly confusing a Picasso with anything is even more embarrasing.

[South Lorne]

No, I just question the accuracy. It may get some people over excited and could ead to disappointment. But it has certainly got the British Establishment jumping.

..true ...but the polls are up and down now ...and best to ignore now until the vote...

[thecrashingisles]

That`s it. Salmond in good form as usual, and the coverage I just watched from the bbc interviewing people in the street in Glasgow a minute ago has people saying that the scare tactics about savings etc. just doesn`t stack up. NO Campaign in trouble?

Shockingly, this is how Nick Robinson reported that exchange on the six o clock news:

Naked propaganda.

[Goat]

But it has certainly got the British Establishment jumping.

Maybe this is a good thing but my problem is that this has been achieved with levels of dishonesty that would make even Tony Bliar blush.

Ok, maybe not Bliar but you see my point.

[zugzwang]

Shockingly, this is how Nick Robinson reported that exchange on the six o clock news:

Naked propaganda.

Robinson clearly thinks it's business as usual. That he and the tabloid rabble at the BBC can carry on playing us like fools as if the internet hadn't been invented. The future's already left him behind he just doesn't know it yet.

[Scunnered]

http://i100.independent.co.uk/article/labour-mps-drowned-out-by-star-wars-theme-in-glasgow--eJvCorVPVx

No comment.

[Guest_northshore_*]

http://i100.independent.co.uk/article/labour-mps-drowned-out-by-star-wars-theme-in-glasgow--eJvCorVPVx

No comment.

[Goat]

Do you mean from Murdoch or the Yes campaign itself?

Salmond mainly and the yes campaign in general.

On the subject of Murdoch, the last copy of the Sunday Times absolutely hammered the yes campaign (see eg my post 806 above), don't know what some of his other titles are doing.

Here's a good starting point (one of the most recent from the Telegraph, there are probably better out there): http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/finance/andrewlilico/100028096/standard-life-rbs-lloyds-and-others-show-just-how-real-the-impacts-of-scottish-independence-would-be/

[Silverfinger]

Exactly! Somebody should start calling them on this point. They might move a few regulatory jobs and the official stamp to London, but there is no reason to do more than that. What seems to be forgotten is that these banks are still in Scotland not because of some loyalty to the place, but because real estate and salaries are cheaper than in London. It clearly would not make sense to move all of those roles to a higher cost location. If it did, they'd have cut all those sweat shop call centres.

I just think nothing better could happen to Scotland than getting the RBS/HBOS liabilities off their back and keeping the jobs at same time, be it under Sterling or under some Scottish currency, especially if it (the currency) should be weak at start. Mortgages could dry up a little, but that could have a healing effect on the economy and the social fabric.

[stormymonday_2011]

Robinson clearly thinks it's business as usual. That he and the tabloid rabble at the BBC can carry on playing us like fools as if the internet hadn't been invented. The future's already left him behind he just doesn't know it yet.

So much for BBC political impartiality.

I thought Robinsons reporting today was little short of a disgrace

He should be fired.

BTW if Murdoch needed any ammunition for his long running war for the BBC to be denied its privileged position within British Broadcasting today provided it

[Silverfinger]

Carney Says Scotland’s Credibility Hinges on Buildup of Reserves

Mark Carney said an independent Scotland might need to build up reserves totaling more than the size of the nation’s economy if it tries to keep using sterling.

So exactly the same position the UK finds itself in?

Is this not complete nonsense given that all the financial turds have expressed their wish to use the London bowl for further floating should the result be YES? If no major bank is left in Scotland, I would think hardly any reserves would be needed if Sterling was continued to be used. I mean, all Scottish currency would be held in English banks, so, no worry, same old same old.

[stormymonday_2011]

Is this not complete nonsense given that all the financial turds have expressed their wish to use the London bowl for further floating should the result be YES? If no major bank is left in Scotland, I would think hardly any reserves would be needed if Sterling was continued to be used. I mean, all Scottish currency would be held in English banks, so, no worry, same old same old.

+1

To me the biggest barrier to Scottish self determination was the presence of the big banks Lloyds and RBS in Edinburgh which potentially presented huge potential liabilities that any Scottish government would have been unable to underwrite and which would have distorted the Scottish economy. The fact they have high tailed it to London at the first sign of trouble taking any potential financial risks with them must be a huge relief to Scottish Nationalists in all their forms since it makes any future Scottish state far easier to fund. Quite why some idiots south of the border were celebrating RBS announcement to run off to the City today is completely beyond me. As a pointed out earlier it is not as if the banks pay much in Corporation tax anyway and over 90% of RBS staff already work outside Scotland. It is true that the moves will take some jobs with them but the that process of shedding bank staff was already well underway long before the current poll as this article shows

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/700-rbs-workers-scotland-axed-1893800

RBS is still 81% owned by the British taxpayer who is still sitting on a thumping loss on their investment

http://invezz.com/news/equities/13162-rbs-share-price-scottish-independence-vote-will-delay-government-stake-sale

Scotland is well rid of it.

Edited September 12, 2014 by stormymonday_2011

[geezer466]

+1

To me the biggest barrier to Scottish self determination was the presence of the big banks Lloyds and RBS in Edinburgh which potentially presented huge potential liabilities that any Scottish government would have been unable to underwrite and which would have distorted the Scottish economy. The fact they have high tailed it to London at the first sign of trouble taking any potential financial risks with them must be a huge relief to Scottish Nationalists in all their forms since it makes any future Scottish state far easier to fund. Quite why some idiots south of the border were celebrating RBS announcement to run off to the City today is completely beyond me. As a pointed out earlier it is not as if the banks pay much in Corporation tax anyway and over 90% of RBS staff already work outside Scotland. It is true that the moves will take some jobs with them but the that process of shedding bank staff was already well underway long before the current poll as this article shows

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/700-rbs-workers-scotland-axed-1893800

RBS is still 81% owned by the British taxpayer who is still sitting on a thumping loss on their investment

http://invezz.com/news/equities/13162-rbs-share-price-scottish-independence-vote-will-delay-government-stake-sale

Scotland is well rid of it.

I thought the case had been made in pretty much the way that the Nats agree with..

The issue is the taxes that Holyrood will lose when everyone buggers off.

You can't "spend, spend, spend" without the revenue coming in, and that is another source of revenue that is crucial to Salmond's plans.

With the head offices of RBS and Lloyds (and the rest of them) in Edinburgh the corporation tax was paid (admittedly to the exchequer of the whole UK) on the business conducted across the whole of the Islands of the UK.

Scotland benefited from ALL of the revenue in the way everything was divvied up.

Its true to say that all companies that trade on post independence will pay tax on economic activity in Scotland but the numbers are going to be drastically different.

The economic activity of 5.3 million people is going to be a lot less that that of the remainder of the 58.8 million people in rUK.

Salmonds tax and spending plans were based on the HQ's of these banks remaining north of the border and him trying to get agreement in the divorce settlement that all tax from the profit be taken in Edinburgh.