Economic Exile Posted September 12, 2014 Share Posted September 12, 2014 (edited) No scare is being left unturned. The truth is retailers need customers and Scots money whatever the currency is going to be as good as the next mans. If John Lewis and M&S price themselves out of the market then someone else will take it. That is how capitalism is supposed to work. Is this story a tacit admission that UK retailing is really just a government sponsored private cartel running their own versions of GUM stores ? My view is that the sky isn't going to fall in if it's a yes vote in scotland. Life will go on for better or for worse whatever the outcome. I'm in sw scotland which shows signs of being overall no. For me it's a yes vote as I want to support a move away from westminster domination. As the debate has hotted up I've been out and about locally at weekends to get a feel for the people in each campaign camp. The No are generally mp's, council people and others who I've found unapproachable to chat with. It's been all doom and gloom statements and it's better we're together type stuff. On the other hand the Yes campaign are a wide mix from society and very chatty.....solicitor, teachers, self employed, retired, students and disabled people. Never heard the SNP or fanatic patriotic stuff mentioned by any of them. The concerns are bad management from westminster and a passion to take scotland's possible future into it's own hands for better or for worse. In the local rag there was a spread from a mix of ordinary people putting forward their cases for and against. Most of scotland is rural and my area is pretty rural so I don't know what's going on in cities. I've seen reports of nastiness but no idea if this is isolated or happening numerous times daily? My take on what's going on is that there is a people's movement who want democracy and to try for something better. My feeling is that the establishment and corporations are rocked to the core that their hegemony in the uk is in serious danger of being disrupted. Corporations aren't the only people who can deliver food and clothes etc! Edited September 12, 2014 by Economic Exile Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stormymonday_2011 Posted September 12, 2014 Share Posted September 12, 2014 (edited) Can't see M&S and the likes of John Lewis pi$$ing off their customer base intentionally even on the say so of a tory toff PM. Independence or not they still have to trade in these markets and why would they deliberately alienate customers? Reduced to its most simplistic, the customer base is lower and transport costs higher in Scotland. Supermarket chains are judged on 'like for like' sales - how sales compare with the same supermarkets the year before. Based on a cross UK basis, the subsidy for Scotland doesn't impact on 'like for like'. All big chains are doing it, therefore all have similar figures. However, when the big chains split into two - iScotland and rUK, the rUK businesses immediately do better 'like for like' when the subsidies stop.So the big chain will have a big rUK subsidiary doing well and a small iScotland one doing worse. Tesco rUK makes more money than Tesco iScotland simply because they are two seperate firms and rUK has more stores. Tesco currently uses the income from all its stores to offset the prices in its more remote ones. There will be little difference currently in the price of a tin of beans in Maidstone or Inverness as the firms currently pool the distribution cost differences. Post independence that will have to change. That is in part due to the way UK stores manage their distribution networks which often sees produce shipped from one end of the UK and then transported back again to its place of origin for sale. Transport costs in remote areas of Scotland are higher just as they are in remote areas of England but most of the population is in the Central Belt of Scotland which is where most of the retail business is going to be conducted. It is not that remote. Anyway UK retailers already tailor prices to specific location just as they vary product lines to suit regional demand. There is no agreed national price for goods since retail price maintenance is illegal under UK law. Costs in an independent Scotland might be higher because of the way the supermarkets currently organise distribution but that set up may not continue post independence. Firms that don't adapt to the change may simply be out competed by retailers who set up distribution chains better adapted to Scottish markets. Edited September 12, 2014 by stormymonday_2011 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Masked Tulip Posted September 12, 2014 Share Posted September 12, 2014 That is in part due to the way UK stores manage their distribution networks which often sees produce shipped from one end of the UK and then transported back again to its place of origin for sale. Transport costs in remote areas of Scotland are higher just as they are in remote areas of England but most of the population is in the Central Belt of Scotland which is where most of the retail business is going to be conducted. It is not that remote. Anyway UK retailers already tailor prices to specific location just as they vary product lines to suit regional demand. There is no agreed national price for goods since retail price maintenance is illegal under UK law. Costs in an independent Scotland might be higher because of the way the supermarkets currently organise distribution but that set up may not continue post independence. Firms that don't adapt to the change may simply be out competed by retailers who set up distribution chains better adapted to Scottish markets. Does M&S factor in higher rentals and business rates in Central London? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Masked Tulip Posted September 12, 2014 Share Posted September 12, 2014 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baxter Basics MP Posted September 12, 2014 Share Posted September 12, 2014 Not that long. As recently as 1997 we had such a Prime Minister, hard as it is to believe now. John Major, the country's last working class PM who had a 'real' non-graduate career before going into politics, had experienced life on the dole yet had no 'University' education. The man is testament to how far you can get in life without being a self-righteous leftie who is hooked on blaming 'fatcher' for their own failings. Yes, he f*cked up massively on the ERM, but it was the ERM debacle which gave NuLabour a pristine economy on which they practised their own particular brand of champagne socialism. Isn't Major's full name John Major-Ball? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baxter Basics MP Posted September 12, 2014 Share Posted September 12, 2014 Not that long. As recently as 1997 we had such a Prime Minister, hard as it is to believe now. And oddly enough, Major had a chance meeting with Clement Atlee after his first visit to the House of Commons as a young lad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 12, 2014 Share Posted September 12, 2014 If in 1997 you had told people that fifteen years later history would rate Major as one of the best PMs we've had you would have been laughed out of the room. Remember 'sleaze'? As despicable as they were as a campaign tactic, those New Labour - New Danger posters with Tony Blair's face ripped away to reveal devil eyes turned out to be rather prophetic... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baxter Basics MP Posted September 12, 2014 Share Posted September 12, 2014 If in 1997 you had told people that fifteen years later history would rate Major as one of the best PMs we've had you would have been laughed out of the room. Remember 'sleaze'? As despicable as they were as a campaign tactic, those New Labour - New Danger posters with Tony Blair's face ripped away to reveal devil eyes turned out to be rather prophetic... Yep. Here's a Tory broadcast from 96, a shame about the house price obsession @ 0.28 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goat Posted September 12, 2014 Share Posted September 12, 2014 Salmond won't be there forever, and he may not be there for long at all if he makes a mess of it. Have some confidence in Scotland's political culture. This is the country of Adam Smith after all... This is the country that voted 40/59 for Gormless Brown, with another 18/19 for similar socialists. Be realistic about the political culture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goat Posted September 12, 2014 Share Posted September 12, 2014 ...it was positive ....and for a new country it can't be built on negatives ...or more important... myths and lies....it's a fragile time for all....but the guarantee for democracy both sides of the border unlike now is good.... You're starting to sound like Winkie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 12, 2014 Share Posted September 12, 2014 Just watching that video with the nonsense about interest rates rising. The alternative was even worse! To think in 1989 rates were almost 15%, and it was still (I'm guessing) better for homebuyers than it is today with rates one or two orders of magnitude lower. I guess the campaign strategists couldn't have predicted Iraq or the banking crisis. And maybe Tory voters wouldn't have cared about the first one, at the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thecrashingisles Posted September 12, 2014 Share Posted September 12, 2014 This is the country that voted 40/59 for Gormless Brown, with another 18/19 for similar socialists. Be realistic about the political culture. That's in the context of being a relatively minor part of the UK. Independence changes the political reality significantly and you will see a very different picture develop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baxter Basics MP Posted September 12, 2014 Share Posted September 12, 2014 This is the country that voted 40/59 for Gormless Brown, with another 18/19 for similar socialists. Be realistic about the political culture. Funny that, my rellies north of the border were all huge Gordon Brown fans...'och aye..he's a lovely man and a greet PM so git tae f*ck'. Now they're all diehard SNP 'FREEDOM' fans? | suspect the shift to SNP has more to do with the free rail passes most of them get than anything else. Free rail passes paid for by the taxpayers in England (note: taxpayers in England. Folk of any nationality to who work and pay tax in England). But despite all of that, I'm hoping for a Yes vote. As are most of my Scottish side of the family south of the border. We're all now 'you English' in the eyes of those north of the border so f*ck them. 800,000 Scots in England, Wales and NI have no say in this vote, yet EU nationals, English and every other tom, dick and harry above the age of 16 in Scotland does have a vote? Very strange. To Scotland, I say this: Get Tae F*ck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baxter Basics MP Posted September 12, 2014 Share Posted September 12, 2014 Just watching that video with the nonsense about interest rates rising. The alternative was even worse! To think in 1989 rates were almost 15%, and it was still (I'm guessing) better for homebuyers than it is today with rates one or two orders of magnitude lower. I guess the campaign strategists couldn't have predicted Iraq or the banking crisis. And maybe Tory voters wouldn't have cared about the first one, at the time. Wasn't the 15% rate cancelled? I'm sure they backed down on that when they realised the BoE wasn't kidding anyone in buying up Sterling at a higher exchange rate. I certainly remember the old man writing countless letters to the Building Society during those days as him and my mum were on the verge of losing the house due to IR hikes. But still, they continued to vote Tory, which did not surprise me. We left this country for around 10 years when the 'Heath Tories' and Labour drove the place into the ground with 1977 being the 'enough is enough' moment for my parents. The old man hadn't had a payrise for years in the RAF, so bought himself out and we all fecked off to Saudi Arabia. But, in that video they got the break up of the UK 'potentially' correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Economic Exile Posted September 12, 2014 Share Posted September 12, 2014 That's in the context of being a relatively minor part of the UK. Independence changes the political reality significantly and you will see a very different picture develop. Yes. I feel that we are living through the start of major political and corporate upheaval in the UK. I've no idea what will happen but my general, but of course personal, tuning in to the current and quite recent state of affairs re the referendum that there is a huge battle being fought for power. I'm feeling signs of a people's movement going on and not confined to scotland. People from all walks of life who want something better. Nothing new. Interesting times! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goat Posted September 12, 2014 Share Posted September 12, 2014 Isn't Major's full name John Major-Ball? Interesting question to which there is probably no right answer. His birth certificate states John Major, he was christened as John Roy Major. His father was Tom Major-Ball but this was a stage name, he was born Abraham Thomas Ball, his mother was Gwendolyn Minny Major (nee Coates), there is no obvious explanation where the Major came from in her name. Technically he should probably be known as John Ball, his brother goes by the name of Terry Major-Ball, it seems like John took his mothers name wheras Terry compromised. Sounds like a complicated upbringing, I'd be happy to share a pie and a pint with our former PM if he wanted to talk about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billybong Posted September 12, 2014 Share Posted September 12, 2014 (edited) If in 1997 you had told people that fifteen years later history would rate Major as one of the best PMs we've had you would have been laughed out of the room. Remember 'sleaze'? As despicable as they were as a campaign tactic, those New Labour - New Danger posters with Tony Blair's face ripped away to reveal devil eyes turned out to be rather prophetic... Surprisingly accurate for a prophesy. In hindsight as if they knew something and far more than they were going to let on. Edited September 12, 2014 by billybong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 12, 2014 Share Posted September 12, 2014 But, in that video they got the break up of the UK 'potentially' correct. Yes, and the current UK deserves it. Those parliaments that 'sounded nice' are the only thing that has kept Scotland (and to some degree, Wales) protected from the worst excesses of Westminster. Maybe if we had taken a different turn in the 90s, once Thatcherism had run its course and the economy was on track - but as it is all we got were broken promises and government acting for the global rich and against the interests of the people. And with all three parties now run by focus groups and management consultants, there is very little hope for change in the UK as currently constructed. I feel like I've spent the ten years of my working life slaving away for nothing - the idiots have already spent my future earnings. Something has to change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baxter Basics MP Posted September 12, 2014 Share Posted September 12, 2014 Yes. I feel that we are living through the start of major political and corporate upheaval in the UK. I've no idea what will happen but my general, but of course personal, tuning in to the current and quite recent state of affairs re the referendum that there is a huge battle being fought for power. I'm feeling signs of a people's movement going on and not confined to scotland. People from all walks of life who want something better. Nothing new. Interesting times! TBH, I was one of the dickwads who voted Tory in 2010. I did so foolishly believing Cameron meant it when he said 'Change'...rather like Obozo in the US. But thinking back to it, about 10 million of us made the same mistake 13 million made back in 97 when voting for Blair's 'Time for Change'. The people we voted for, Cameron and Blair, are folk from a privileged background. There is nothing wrong with that background BUT such people cannot and never will understand what the majority of 'people' have to go through in order to get by in this country. When I write 'people', I don't mean the 'White Dees' or the scroungers, nor do I mean those who cannot be arsed to better themselves through means other than University or depending on 'Tax Credits'. I mean folk like me, who own a small business, pay out shit loads in VAT, Corp Tax, Employer NI and then have to witness those who work for me pay out PAYE and further NI. Our only thanks is to see our money pished up the wall, barriers to a fricken roof over your head and what seems to be a growing lawlessness on the streets. It's a freakin joke! So let Scotland eject itself from the United 'Against England' Kingdom, and hopefully that will scare the pish out of the Establishment. Who will hopefully be destroyed by UKIP. Oh...how racist of me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baxter Basics MP Posted September 12, 2014 Share Posted September 12, 2014 I feel like I've spent the ten years of my working life slaving away for nothing I wouldn't feel like that, you're own efforts are never a waste. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 12, 2014 Share Posted September 12, 2014 TBH, I was one of the dickwads who voted Tory in 2010. I did so foolishly believing Cameron meant it when he said 'Change'...rather like Obozo in the US. Don't be too hard on yourself, I voted Lib Dem! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baxter Basics MP Posted September 12, 2014 Share Posted September 12, 2014 Surprisingly accurate for a prophesy. In hindsight as if they knew something and far more than they were going to let on. Nope, they were merely guided by the previous track record of Labour Govts. with the view being 'it always ends in tears'. However, what was different this time around was the huge global credit boom which ushered in the abolition of Boom and Bust along with Snow and Ice. Funnily enough, by the end of 2008 all of that returned with vengeance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baxter Basics MP Posted September 12, 2014 Share Posted September 12, 2014 Don't be too hard on yourself, I voted Lib Dem! And I thought, at the time, the Lib Dems did the honourable thing by going into coalition with the Tories. Even Cleggs Great Repeal Act proposal was pretty exciting stuff...a chance to feck off 13 years of authoritarian Labour rule. But all of it went to pot. What is it with these men? Do they get 'turned' once the walk into 10 Downing Street? Is it like 'A Very British Coup' were some old civil servant puts them in their place and reminds them that his ancestors have been their since 'ye unto the middle ages'. I think I'd welcome a Harry Perkins, Steel worker from Sheffield. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billybong Posted September 12, 2014 Share Posted September 12, 2014 (edited) Nope, they were merely guided by the previous track record of Labour Govts. with the view being 'it always ends in tears'. However, what was different this time around was the huge global credit boom which ushered in the abolition of Boom and Bust along with Snow and Ice. Funnily enough, by the end of 2008 all of that returned with vengeance. If they had stuck to the whammy theme or something similar (the whammy that they're now reintroducing when NuLabour's "project" is done) that would fit in with overblown tax and spend etc but the red eyes thing suggested more than that and it turned out to be far more with lies on immigration etc. Introducing political correctness then all the eu stuff etc etc as well as the massive credit boom - you name it. The Full Monty. Edited September 12, 2014 by billybong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thecrashingisles Posted September 12, 2014 Share Posted September 12, 2014 The BBC has spoken. Nick Robinson's report was impartial. http://www.bbc.co.uk/complaints/complaint/alexsalmondrbsquestion/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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