Trump was right - Covid escaped from a lab

[Dyson Fury]

6 minutes ago, zugzwang said:

All of the Wuhan scientists were subject to serological examination. None of them exhibited SARS CoV 2 antibodies.

I'm sure the official Chinese Communist Party account of the events in Wuhan say that.  Does it include the three researchers at the Wuhan laboratory who were treated in hospital in November 2019?

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/u-s-intel-report-identified-3-wuhan-lab-researchers-who-n1268327

[petetong]

44 minutes ago, zugzwang said:

False.

No natural host for the zoonotic transmission was ever found for SARS. Civets, raccoon dogs and bats were all suspected but no direct progenitor has ever been identified.

Our understanding of MERS transmission is far from complete. No zoonotic MERS disease has ever been found in Africa or Asia, for instance, despite intermittent outbreaks on these continents. There are very few wandering camels in South Korea.

A multitude of zoonotic coronaviruses are known to exist in the wild their intermediate animal hosts unknown.

 

I read research stating SARS origin was found but that was chinese research from what I remember so who can trust that eh ?

The big outbreak in South Korea of MERS was from a Korean business man who had been to the middle east on a business trip and rocked up at multiple hospitals in South Korea causing the outbreak ... all traced and documented. 

"The MERS pandemic in the Republic of Korea in 2015 was caused by a single person who returned from travel in the Middle East. "

https://virologyj.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12985-015-0422-1

Edited February 26, 2023 by petetong

[zugzwang]

1 minute ago, Dyson Fury said:

I'm sure the official Chinese Communist Party account of the events in Wuhan say that.  Does it include the three researchers at the Wuhan laboratory who were treated in hospital in November 2019?

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/u-s-intel-report-identified-3-wuhan-lab-researchers-who-n1268327

The official Wall Street Party account of events says there were three sick researchers wandering around infected with a novel and potentially deadly coronavirus? Highly implausible.

And when in November? The first recorded infection was identified on November 17th but that's statistically unlikely to have been the first infection.

There's circumstantial evidence that an unknown respiratory infection was circulating prior to that, perhaps as early as September.

https://abcnews.go.com/International/satellite-data-suggests-coronavirus-hit-china-earlier-researchers/story?id=71123270

[zugzwang]

11 minutes ago, petetong said:

I read research stating SARS origin was found but that was chinese research from what I remember so who can trust that eh ?

The big outbreak in South Korea of MERS was from a Korean business man who had been to the middle east on a business trip and rocked up at multiple hospitals in South Korea causing the outbreak ... all traced and documented. 

"The MERS pandemic in the Republic of Korea in 2015 was caused by a single person who returned from travel in the Middle East. "

https://virologyj.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12985-015-0422-1

News to me.

But there's still a lot we don't know about MERS.  Likewise, the other CoVs.

[fellow]

2 hours ago, Gurgle said:

From my perspective it means exactly what I think it means:  here’s Wikipedia’s definition 

Critical thinking is the analysis of available facts, evidence, observations, and arguments to form a judgment.

+1

A really bizarre post by @Will!. it appears he was being critical without thinking.

[MonsieurCopperCrutch]

5 hours ago, NoHPCinTheUK said:

Oh oh so it seems that the guys with the tin foil hat where right once again. 

Nope. Try again clown.

Notably, the Energy Department, which oversees many U.S. laboratories, came to its conclusion based on new intelligence, but deemed its level of confidence in its judgment as “low."

[Smith]

3 hours ago, Will! said:

 

You keep using that word.  I do not think it means what you think it means.

Agreed. Just because someone doesn't agree with the mainstream view, that doesn't make them a critical thinker. Critical thinking is about weighing the evidence, not just being contrary.

[MarkG]

4 hours ago, Pmax2020 said:

I’d say most people had money on it being a lab escape, even as early as the summer of 2020. 

Every sane person knew in 2020 that it almost certainly came from a lab. The big question was whether it was an accidental release or deliberate.

And since we now know Covid was in Italy in September 2019 and North America in October 2019, the odds of it escaping from the Wuhan lab seems low unless they took a naturally-occurring virus from Italy and were enhancing it for grins.

Edited February 26, 2023 by MarkG

[Arpeggio]

7 hours ago, NoHPCinTheUK said:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/covid-origin-china-lab-leak-807b7b0a

So Trump was "right" and brought you Operation Warp Speed vaccines, which, essentially, came from China.

2 years ago;

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-health-vaccines-idUSKBN1ZN2J8 Quote: "Chinese scientists were able to quickly identify the genetic sequence of the new coronavirus and officials posted it publicly within a few days, allowing scientific research teams to get to work right away.  With the genetic code in hand, scientists can start vaccine development work without needing a sample of the virus."

 

5 hours ago, Sackboii said:

..and yet a lot of the same people were probably the same ones saying COVID was false and didn't even exist.

Some might simultaneously believe it exists (ergo lab leak) while knowing it has not been isolated, which would put them in the same camp as virologists. (Covid is the name of disease, not virus, which is Sars-Cov-2).

 

7 hours ago, TerryBoi said:

Xi needs to answer for this.

World is owed TRILLIONS in reparations from China.

Its time to lock and load.

Either way, if you genuinely believe a contagious virus came from a lab, whether deliberate or not, while simultaneously having relied on such collaboration for the vaccine, yet now you ask for violence?....

It's not so much that you don't know you ask for biological warfare (starting off with bullets), it is that there is conflict in your own outlook. Unsure of your bridges, and which to burn.

Edited February 26, 2023 by Arpeggio

[NoHPCinTheUK]

How do you know that the virus was in Europe and America 4 months before the outbreak in China? 

[MarkG]

4 minutes ago, NoHPCinTheUK said:

How do you know that the virus was in Europe and America 4 months before the outbreak in China? 

Because researchers have tested patient samples from 2019 for Covid?

The Italy story was discussed here a few months ago when the paper came out.

There was also a single positive wastewater test in Spain months earlier than that, but it was probably spurious since nothing showed up in later samples.

Oh, and we knew in early 2020 than an Italian virologist was investigating a strange increase in respiratory deaths in November 2019. Which supports the later findings.

Edited February 26, 2023 by MarkG

[Arpeggio]

1 minute ago, MarkG said:

The Italy story was discussed here a few months ago when the paper came out.

Have you read it?

[NoHPCinTheUK]

I’ve read about people testing pineapples and getting a positive result back. 
Problem is, this virus has been a very mild disease. Governments had to push the break when it was clear that people who got infected and survived couldn’t care less about it anymore. 
The big unknown is why western countries went into lockdowns in the first place. And I don’t really understand why the energy department is involved in this either. 
 

[NoHPCinTheUK]

Yeah this stinks. A lot. 

[MarkG]

3 minutes ago, Arpeggio said:

Have you read it?

I skimmed through one paper from Italy a while ago. I'm not sure whether it was the same one, but it found Covid antibodies in blood samples from September 2019.

The earliest results weren't conclusive because they had two labs do the tests and only one found antibodies. The samples from a little later started to show positive results from both labs.

Edited February 26, 2023 by MarkG

[NoHPCinTheUK]

3 minutes ago, MarkG said:

I skimmed through one paper from Italy a while ago. I'm not sure whether it was the same one, but it found Covid antibodies in blood samples from September 2019.

All right, so Covid was in Italy since September. As far as I’m concerned autumn and respiratory viruses season in Italy start in October and November. They only went into lockdown in February, basically at the end of the cold season. They spent 4 cold months without realising people were catching a deadly disease and hospitals were flooded with patients. 

Edited February 26, 2023 by NoHPCinTheUK

[MarkG]

No. The Italian virologist had already noticed that more people than usual were ending up in hospital with respiratory problems, so they knew something strange was happening.

There probably wasn't a particularly high death rate because hospitals were treating them like regular patients instead of shoving them on ventilators that killed 90% of people put on them in Wuhan. There's also the open question I mentioned above of whether the version from China could have been a lab-enhanced version of a naturally-occurring disease in Italy, given the strong links between Italy and China.

[Arpeggio]

2 minutes ago, MarkG said:

I skimmed through one paper from Italy a while ago. I'm not sure whether it was the same one, but it found Covid antibodies in blood samples from September 2019.

Five out of 146 PCR positive individuals also had detectable antibodies, which they claim were specific to Sars-Cov-2.

 

1 minute ago, NoHPCinTheUK said:

All right, so Covid was in Italy since September. As far as I’m concerned autumn and respiratory viruses season in Italy start in October and November. They only went into lockdown in February, basically at the end of the cold season. They spent 4 cold months without realising people were catching a deadly disease and hospitals were flooded with patients. 

The progenitor form of the “contagious virus” symptomatically affected primarily the young, while later, the actual pandemic associated version, did not.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0013935122013068

Table 1. Demographic characteristics of the patients included in this study.

Average age  

24.6

23.8

29.4"

Fig. 1 Measles and rubella practically disappear in April – Dec 2020, while "discarded measles/rubella" goes up.  Notice a generally inverse relationship back to 2017.

 

 

14 minutes ago, NoHPCinTheUK said:

I’ve read about people testing pineapples and getting a positive result back.

Maybe the Pineapple had Covid.

[scottbeard]

16 minutes ago, NoHPCinTheUK said:

Problem is, this virus has been a very mild disease. ...

The big unknown is why western countries went into lockdowns in the first place.

It's fairly mild NOW for most people, but you have to remember that:

- The earliest variants were nastier, in part because no one had immunity then

- Even if only 1 in 100 people end up in hospital with it that's 70 million people worldwide.  If they'd all descended on hospitals at once in spring 2020 the effect on anyone needing treatment for everything else would have been catastrophic

Now I'm not saying that means lockdowns were in hindsight all correct, but I do understand why they did them

[scottbeard]

(And in reality it was more than 1 in 100)

[MarkG]

13 minutes ago, Arpeggio said:

The progenitor form of the “contagious virus” symptomatically affected primarily the young, while later, the actual pandemic associated version, did not.

Yes. That's why I wonder whether the version we saw from China might have been deliberately enhanced in a lab.

[Arpeggio]

Just now, scottbeard said:

It's fairly mild NOW for most people, but you have to remember that:

- The earliest variants were nastier, in part because no one had immunity then

We are being told on the "Silent crisis of soaring excess deaths" thread that the majority of excess deaths are covid and under the age of 55.

 

Just now, scottbeard said:

- Even if only 1 in 100 people end up in hospital with it that's 70 million people worldwide.  If they'd all descended on hospitals at once in spring 2020 the effect on anyone needing treatment for everything else would have been catastrophic

Now I'm not saying that means lockdowns were in hindsight all correct, but I do understand why they did them

The NHS was not very busy at all during 2020 March until Winter and the Nightingale Hospitals were not used.

You would also say, in this narrative, this is also due to throwing people out of the boat, so to speak. Discharging thousands of people who need medical attention into care homes and giving them end of life care, as well as putting DNRs on people with learning difficulties without informing them or their family.

[Arpeggio]

4 minutes ago, MarkG said:

Yes. That's why I wonder whether the version we saw from China might have been deliberately enhanced in a lab.

Enhanced to be less harmful compared to a progenitor form that symptomatically affected primarily the young with an inverse relationship to measles/rubella while later, the actual pandemic associated version, did not?

[Arpeggio]

.

Edited February 26, 2023 by Arpeggio
dupe

[TerryBoi]

1 hour ago, Arpeggio said:

Either way, if you genuinely believe a contagious virus came from a lab, whether deliberate or not, while simultaneously having relied on such collaboration for the vaccine, yet now you ask for violence?....

It's not so much that you don't know you ask for biological warfare (starting off with bullets), it is that there is conflict in your own outlook. Unsure of your bridges, and which to burn.

What you wanna do then ...

One country out their experimenting with viral shit that has bought the rest of the world to its knee's.

Send them a strongly worded letter?