Anyone seriously thinking of emigrating?

[ARENAPUA]

If i was in my 20/30's I'd seriously consider moving abroad.

[Homeless Millionaire]

Part of the paradox with the UK is that those with high level skills are far better off leaving it, whilst comparatively lowly individuals such as myself are far less in demand in countries such as the US. 

If you are completely inept then the UK is the best place to go, far more opportunities for scams, low level criminality and fraud as regulation is so slack. 

[Gurgle]

4 hours ago, Orb said:

Having an Irish passport, I'd toyed with the idea of Ireland, but from what I read and hear, it's just as bad there, if not worse than here. Especially regarding the cost of everything, and the uncontrolled immigration problem. 

Instead I might move to another part of England which I like more than my current location, where houses are half the price. 

There's really nowhere to go. We're stuck, unfortunately. 

If you have an irish passport you can move anywhere in the EU freely. Lucky you! 

3 hours ago, Orb said:

I'm as concerned for this are parents are for finding a good school..... it's essential and non-negotiable 😄

You’re not going to find anything like British pub culture or the concept of a “local” anywhere else in Europe with the possible exception of Ireland 

[A.steve]

1 hour ago, ARENAPUA said:

If i was in my 20/30's I'd seriously consider moving abroad.

In my 30s, I did consider it.  I rejected it because the things I was unhappy about weren't about where I was.  I recognised that I could get different by changing locations... but moving wouldn't solve what I was fundamentally concerned about. In my mid 30s, I realised I'd spent 3 decades getting to a stage where I had passable knowledge of Britain... and realised that it could take another 3 decades to get a similar handle on matters elsewhere.

[athom]

2 hours ago, Casual-observer said:

If something comes up in the middle east with work, I will seriously consider it. They don't tolerate any of the white middle class bourgeoisie bullsh1t we have here. 

The middle east has high immigration but they ensure the air of respect for the country is maintained as people fear the law there and respect the authority.  

The UK and Europe went in the wrong direction, high immigration but absurdly followed some daft doctrine it's the host nation that had to accommodate different beliefs to be 'diverse'. We are now a basket case of people who think those in authority are absolute cowards. 

Just look at the football recently, when Morocco did well in the world cup the fans went ballistic in Paris. They wouldn't do that in Rabat but in Paris or London or Amsterdam it kicks off like a war.

I've repeatedly said on this here that in Britain for the last two decades this high immigration we've had was hoovering up other countries dregs..the dregs from East Europe, Africa, Middle East. It's the people from the bottom rungs of their societies who came here thinking it would be a land of milk and honey. Many of the men who come here consider western women whores. 

It's just increasingly apparent now that we have a high number of people in this country who see it as a brothel and treat it as one. 

and you want to go to the middle east?

[wish I could afford one]

Done it.

Investigated via plenty of online research and physical trips - Australia, Cyprus, Spain, Malta, Italy.  Considered - Portugal.

Actually moved to Cyprus but foolishly just didn't give it enough time to settle.  Returned to the UK.

Have now been in Australia for over 2 years.  Absolutely loving it and I can't see us ever returning to the UK.

FIRE is great!!

[14stFlyer]

12 hours ago, Bob8 said:

I am very settled in Denmark, which has rather glided past the UK's choppy waters. Pubs are better in the UK though.

We almost settled in Denmark.  People are lovely and there is less competition for resources than in the U.K.  Plus there is the summer sun, sand, sausage and sild. 

But our local walk back here has more wild character than anywhere we went in Denmark, and is higher than the himmelbjerget!   Plus pubs and curry houses means we are happy to be back home. 

[winkie]

12 hours ago, spyguy said:

In my younger, free n easy days, I did ponder living in the EU.

Options were -

Italy or Spain. Rejected. Economies so shit. Business bent n not in my area.

Germany. Came close. Learnt the language. However, after a trial posting I found the lack of services horrendous. Germany only worked if you had a non working spouse to shop in the narrow window shops were open and deal with various admin rules shit.

Nland / Nordics. Possible, but I'd have just spoken Engkish all the time. And they are cold n wet as here.

France - just never considered, as my UK place was full of French grads whod escaped France.

I did think Japan but was economy was in the shitter warned I'm too tall. A mate was posted there and spent 12 months sleeping with his feet over the futon and perma bruised head.

I do have close family- siblings n inlaws in Germany, Italy n Spain. Chatting, nine are tgphat appealing, at least working.

I do like Itaky the best and can see us spending a lot of time there - when Mrs decides she wants to spend time back home. But not working or paying tax.

 

In your younger days their economies might well have been, much improved today.......one way to tell is the standard of infastructure, the roads the internet and mobile connection, the trains and health services......more importantly today their energy security, investment put into clean modern energy.

Are the shops and restaurants still open and in business in the high street, the numbers of new buildings going up and big firms moving in.......how happy the people seem to be?.

[spyguy]

Just now, winkie said:

In your younger days their economies might well have been, much improved today.......one way to tell is the standard of infastructure, the roads the internet and mobile connection, the trains and health services......more importantly today their energy security, investment put into clean modern energy.

Are the shops and restaurants still open and in business in the high street, the numbers of new buildings going up and big firms moving in.......how happy the people seem to be?.

German infrastucture is sh1t. Been left to fall to bits for 20years.

Spains got loads. But its all road to nowhere.

Italy? Well the money was allocated ... just got lost somewhere on the way.

 

[Bob8]

17 minutes ago, 14stFlyer said:

We almost settled in Denmark.  People are lovely and there is less competition for resources than in the U.K.  Plus there is the summer sun, sand, sausage and sild. 

But our local walk back here has more wild character than anywhere we went in Denmark, and is higher than the himmelbjerget!   Plus pubs and curry houses means we are happy to be back home. 

Yes, and if you are bringing a family with you, emmigration is particularly hard. I have lived and worked in a few countries, and even after all these times it is a challenge. You use a lot of your brain dealing with the unknown.

The criticisims you make of Denmark are very valid also.

[winkie]

3 minutes ago, spyguy said:

German infrastucture is sh1t. Been left to fall to bits for 20years.

Spains got loads. But its all road to nowhere.

Italy? Well the money was allocated ... just got lost somewhere on the way.

 

Very impressed with how the Spanish since the death of Franco have improved the country, investment in the right things mostly......they always put a billboard up telling you how much they have spent on an infastructure project, they could have spent that money on something that doesn't show......the underground extension was finished really quickly, they might have a manana mindset but are quick to get things done when want to.

[debtlessmanc]

34 minutes ago, winkie said:

investment put into clean modern energy.

Germany is still mining and burning lignite..

[shlomo]

11 hours ago, Casual-observer said:

 

I've repeatedly said on this here that in Britain for the last two decades this high immigration we've had was hoovering up other countries dregs..the dregs from East Europe, Africa, Middle East. It's the people from the bottom rungs of their societies who came here thinking it would be a land of milk and honey. Many of the men who come here consider western women whores. 

 

Yes, but the comfortable in a country never leave only the lower class leave, we have always attracted the poor and uneducted but this is alo policy, it keeps the best jobs and opportunities for the white middle class.

and why is it men are not whores, one rule for one..

[debtlessmanc]

I thought about it many times. I worked in France for 2 years in my twenties and could of stayed longer on contracts but was offered a permanent job in the U.K. so came back. It was closer to my family so was happy with that. Later we lived  in the US for a year, met some very nice people and weather was great (california) never wanted to stay there though the usual issues, gun culture, materialism etc. Interestingly we stuck our kids in the local school (6 and 10 yrs old). Our 6 year old daughter loved the weather and her friends, our older son never liked it, spent most of his time playing soccer with Hispanic kids.

The place I have had strongest connections now is Canada, old mate is senior prof at University in Ontario and I go out there 1-2 times a year . I like the place, really only the weather is the problem. I still have many contacts out there and only recently was contacted by head hunters for a senior role at another Ontario uni. I must admit personally I would have gone, but new wifey has grand kid and doesn't want to leave.

As to staying in the U.K., I like it here too, pub culture humour etc. They just need to get away from the idea that housing is some kind of get rich scheme and stop making peoples lives a misery. Preferably by eg building millions of council houses.

I'll add thoughts on working in the EU, I still meet many eu academics, pay and conditions outside of Scandinavia, Germany and Holland are truly shocking. Huge teaching loads and school teacher level pay, it's one factor why I did not remain in France. Plus you you have to speak the language of course more worryingly discrimination is still enshrined in some countries, eg Italian unis pay foreigners less full stop by law, despite the ECJ ruling against it for 30 odd years. On true mobility I think it will take the EU (if it continues to exist) 30-50 years to get where it claims to actually be. This assumes that the best practice in it prevails rather than worst parts. 

[debtlessmanc]

12 minutes ago, shlomo said:

Yes, but the comfortable in a country never leave only the lower class leave, we have always attracted the poor and uneducted but this is alo policy, it keeps the best jobs and opportunities for the white middle class.

and why is it men are not whores, one rule for one..

Got to any university, spin out or commercial laboratory in the U.K. you will find some of the planets most gifted scientists from all over the world.

of course I could be cynical and put this down to the British habit of viewing science and engineering as menial work making the jobs market far more open to appointing non nationals than other countries.

Edited December 14, 2022 by debtlessmanc

[shlomo]

6 minutes ago, debtlessmanc said:

Got to any university, spin out or commercial laboratory in the U.K. you will find some of the planets most gifted scientists from all over the world.

of course I could be cynical and put this down to the British habit of viewing science and engineering as menial work making the jobs market far more open to appointing non nationals than other countries.

You could flip that round.

and say by putting in the best of the world it pushes up the UK, whereas the French system of only promoting French people keeps France/Paris at a provincial level as they are not getting Real world Experiences only from French people like them.

[debtlessmanc]

10 minutes ago, shlomo said:

You could flip that round.

and say by putting in the best of the world it pushes up the UK, whereas the French system of only promoting French people keeps France/Paris at a provincial level as they are not getting Real world Experiences only from French people like them.

It's been very good for the U.K. indeed we are the envy of many EU countries on this. I was only last week talking to an academic from another EU state who was visiting and totally amazed by the number and quality of overseas staff and students we could attract. They were increasingly under pressure to attract more and failing.

Edited December 14, 2022 by debtlessmanc

[shlomo]

3 minutes ago, debtlessmanc said:

It's been very good for the U.K. indeed we are the envy of many EU countries on this. I was only last week talking to an academic from another EU state who was visiting and totally amazed by the number and quality of overseas staff and students we could attract. They were increasingly under pressure to attract more and failing.

Did they have an opinion on why they were failing?

[PropertyMania]

14 hours ago, Bob8 said:

The Irish passport is an EU passport.

I am very settled in Denmark, which has rather glided past the UK's choppy waters. Pubs are better in the UK though.

With all the welfare, Scandi is good if you have kids, right? but taxes and prices are high, although i think Denmark is the least bad

[Bob8]

Just now, PropertyMania said:

With all the welfare, Scandi is good if you have kids, right? but taxes and prices are high, although i think Denmark is the least bad

It really is very circumstantial. The three of the main ones are pretty good. After all, your quality of life really depends on what is immediately around you, workplace, neighbourhood etc rather than the nation as a whole. But, broadly speaking, I would agree.

[PropertyMania]

10 hours ago, Gurgle said:

If you have an irish passport you can move anywhere in the EU freely. Lucky you! 

You’re not going to find anything like British pub culture or the concept of a “local” anywhere else in Europe with the possible exception of Ireland 

the closest is the ubiquitous Irish pub (rarely British) abroad. think that's why they're so popular, despite being incredibly naff.

table service and no culture of rounds kills the vibe in most of europe

[debtlessmanc]

22 minutes ago, shlomo said:

Did they have an opinion on why they were failing?

I think the big customers, china, malaysia, increasingly india etc think of good universities as belonging to the "anglo-saxon" model, so Australia UK , Canada, US. Also they look closely at rankings which are somewhat biased towards that model. I was waiting for someone to say "english language" but the visitor i mentioned was from Eire! He told me, quite cynically, that they had hoped for a brexit bonus and that EU students wanting to study english would go there instead. It has not materialised. I have a spanish guy in my tutorial, I presume he has paid full fees? Anyway he wants to go the US and has applied there for post graduate study which his parents will pay through the nose for. So, anecdotally, we are still getting rich kids at the best UK universities from all over...

Edited December 14, 2022 by debtlessmanc

[Bob8]

3 minutes ago, PropertyMania said:

the closest is the ubiquitous Irish pub (rarely British) abroad. think that's why they're so popular, despite being incredibly naff.

table service and no culture of rounds kills the vibe in most of europe

Pubs did change dramatically in the 1990s in Britain.

The pubs "bodegas" in Denmark are what would have happened if they had not updated at all. They are brow, smelly and depressing frequently. The knock on problem is that most normal people (even those sentimental about them) will rarely go in them. This unfortuntately keeps them marginalised. It was the 2000s when they started often doing beer on tap, and a bit later when the lager (Tuborg or Carlberg) was typically chilled. They are still very smokey.

The alternative is a bar, typically for younger people and professionals.

[dugsbody]

15 hours ago, mynamehere said:

Would love to! Somewhere Mediterranean would be nice. South of France or Catalonia. Start a lemon farm. Take on just enough remote work to keep things oiled.

Unfortunately my family is rather more fond of the Uk than me

 

The UK feels like a bit of a shit place at the moment if you pay attention to our politics and news. It also feels shit if you rely on the NHS, state dentists, schools, rail, police, etc. Everything just seems to be worse than it was about 20 years ago.

I'm married to a French woman. We could go to live in France and have a family network, and that was 100% our goal for the last 10 years. That was until recently when we moved area in the UK. We now love where we live. If I ignored everything else I'd have no issue staying here permanently. My wife loves it too and doesn't want to move back to France at this point. Living in France has plenty of up-sides, but also down sides. Everything is so bureaucratic it is painful. I felt isolated when we lived there for a while. I really missed the English sense of humour (the French have their own, but not being a native speaker or barely speaking at all, it doesn't translate well). I missed pubs.

I've also live in several other countries for months to a couple of years (when younger). The experience was great, but there is something that I just missed about the UK each time.

If I could make it work, I'd move to Portugal, near Lisbon. That is one of my favourite places. Unfortunately, housing in the good areas is now nearly even worse than London.

[notnow]

Having lived as an ex pat retiree , I can say Its really hard. Those ex pats I met who were extatically happy had no clue of the issues and lived in blissfull ignorance until it went wrong for them.

Now of course we have no right to live where we want in europe, after brexit. (Sigh.)

So go live where you can, take that risk, but keep your wits about you. You will not understand the laws, the traditions, and you will be an immigrant.  If you dont have the local language you will be lonely.

Best advice is to rent, so you can walk away. Keep any uk property you have.