Climate Change,

[Gigantic Purple Slug]

1 hour ago, Social Justice League said:

Nah, that won't concern me as I won't be driving a car at all by that point.

Surely a similar conclusion to draw is that climate change is fine, because it won't affect you as you'll be dead by the time it happens.

[Social Justice League]

19 minutes ago, Gigantic Purple Slug said:

Surely a similar conclusion to draw is that climate change is fine, because it won't affect you as you'll be dead by the time it happens.

That is also true.   I'm 46 now so by 2050 I'll be 75 or dead.  All good.

I'll leave electric cars for the youth who can sell a kidney and a left leg to buy one.

[kzb]

5 hours ago, markyh said:

They will build more power generation and infrastructure,  simples. 

Well they need to speed it up, and not by a bit, by orders of magnitude.  Currently UK generation capacity is reducing, not growing, and it will continue to reduce under current plans.

[Gigantic Purple Slug]

2 hours ago, Social Justice League said:

That is also true.   I'm 46 now so by 2050 I'll be 75 or dead.  All good.

I'll leave electric cars for the youth who can sell a kidney and a left leg to buy one.

That's OK. The electric car is an auto - no clutch.

[kzb]

5 hours ago, byron78 said:

This is fun. I love how your desperate attempt to warp science to deny climate change is "balanced" to you, and that someone pointing out the fact 90% of fossil fuels and their wealth are foreign state owned is "warped".

Our world is warped precisely as it is largely because of this fact.

Why ignore it? Saudi Arabia doesn't even exist without oil. Russia is nothing without fossil fuels.

 

I'm not desperate, my scientific stance is clear and I am comfortable with it.  Objectivity means you don't giggle at other scientists' theories, you consider their arguments carefully.  I'm not even denying climate change, which means you can't even comprehend my posts.

The issue I am having problems expressing is how the fossil fuel industry is now akin to the tobacco industry.  This is what is warped.  Fossil fuels have been, and overwhelmingly still are, the whole basis of our technological civilisation.   Without fossil fuels we would still be living in medieval conditions.  I can't marry this to an exploitative industry that has caused us great harm.  

 

[markyh]

3 hours ago, Social Justice League said:

That is also true.   I'm 46 now so by 2050 I'll be 75 or dead.  All good.

I'll leave electric cars for the youth who can sell a kidney and a left leg to buy one.

Lol, I’m early 50’s and have had EV’s since 2012 , will have 2 brand new ones by next Spring, it’s not a youth thing. 

[byron78]

53 minutes ago, kzb said:

I'm not desperate, my scientific stance is clear and I am comfortable with it.  Objectivity means you don't giggle at other scientists' theories, you consider their arguments carefully.  I'm not even denying climate change, which means you can't even comprehend my posts.

The issue I am having problems expressing is how the fossil fuel industry is now akin to the tobacco industry.  This is what is warped.  Fossil fuels have been, and overwhelmingly still are, the whole basis of our technological civilisation.   Without fossil fuels we would still be living in medieval conditions.  I can't marry this to an exploitative industry that has caused us great harm.  

 

Apologies if I was vague.

I was in Insurance during the 80s (thankfully out before Lloyds!), but had a lot of friends all over.

I literally had (he's sadly passed) a friend who worked for big tobacco who was then picked up to do work for fossil fuel lobby groups. 

He ended up at the Heartland Institute, and there is still significant crossover in their policies that reflects all this.

https://www.heartland.org/topics/alcohol-tobacco/index.html

[Social Justice League]

1 hour ago, Gigantic Purple Slug said:

That's OK. The electric car is an auto - no clutch.

😀

[PeanutButter]

Tories received £1.3m from fossil fuel interests and climate sceptics since 2019

Gifts and donations were from oil companies, airports, petrostates and climate-sceptic thinktanks

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/oct/25/tories-received-13m-from-fossil-fuel-interests-and-climate-sceptics-since-2019

Outright climate denial is now politically unacceptable but a growing movement that casts doubt on the solutions and exaggerates their costs has emerged in its place. “There’s every possibility donors who want to fight back against the push for more serious climate action will start throwing more cash at that effort,” Collett-White said.

[skinnylattej]

On 10/21/2021 at 3:10 PM, Social Justice League said:

That is also true.   I'm 46 now so by 2050 I'll be 75 or dead.  All good.

I'll leave electric cars for the youth who can sell a kidney and a left leg to buy one.

Thankfully we will have autonomous vehicles by then, and/or transport as a service (TaaS) in major urban centres.

I'm guessing, but there will probably be major advances in prosthetics as well.

[skinnylattej]

1 hour ago, PeanutButter said:

Tories received £1.3m from fossil fuel interests and climate sceptics since 2019

Gifts and donations were from oil companies, airports, petrostates and climate-sceptic thinktanks

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/oct/25/tories-received-13m-from-fossil-fuel-interests-and-climate-sceptics-since-2019

Outright climate denial is now politically unacceptable but a growing movement that casts doubt on the solutions and exaggerates their costs has emerged in its place. “There’s every possibility donors who want to fight back against the push for more serious climate action will start throwing more cash at that effort,” Collett-White said.

Physics will win.

You can try all the ruses and deceits that you like, but the physics will win.

[Gigantic Purple Slug]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-australia-57925798

Interesting article to match the first one on Chinese coal - Australian coal.

[zugzwang]

An all-time high.

 

https://www.sharecast.com/news/news-and-announcements--/uk-petrol-prices-hit-record-highs-as-brent-crude-reaches-86--8279749.html

UK petrol prices hit a new record high in the UK as global oil prices continue to soar, placing further inflationary pressure on hard-pressed Britons already struggling with surging energy costs and a tax rise.

Breakdown specialists the RAC and AA said the average price of petrol hit record high of 142.94p a litre on Sunday, beating the previous all-time high of 142.48p reached in April 2012.

Unleaded petrol has risen 28p in a year, adding £15 to the cost of filling up the average family car.

“This is truly a dark day for drivers, and one which we hoped we wouldn’t see again after the high prices of April 2012,” RAC spokesperson Simon Williams said. “This will hurt many household budgets and no doubt have knock-on implications for the wider economy.”

[Confusion of VIs]

On 21/10/2021 at 17:56, kzb said:

I'm not desperate, my scientific stance is clear and I am comfortable with it.  Objectivity means you don't giggle at other scientists' theories, you consider their arguments carefully.  I'm not even denying climate change, which means you can't even comprehend my posts.

The issue I am having problems expressing is how the fossil fuel industry is now akin to the tobacco industry.  This is what is warped.  Fossil fuels have been, and overwhelmingly still are, the whole basis of our technological civilisation.   Without fossil fuels we would still be living in medieval conditions.  I can't marry this to an exploitative industry that has caused us great harm.  

Then you haven't being paying attention.

Numerous examples of them putting profits ahead of human lives and health over the last 100yrs e.g. the danger of putting lead in petrol was known back in 1925 yet despite this, and there being non toxic alternatives available, the industry spent the next 50 years denying there was any problem and producing fake studies to back up their lies. The latest estimates are that lead in petrol caused or hastened the deaths of over 400,000 Americans a year for over 50yrs. 

They are still doing it, spending hundreds of millions a year promoting FUD intended to slow the move to renewables and EVs. 

Their latest big lie is that Blue Hydrogen is the way forward. Unfortunately there are still plenty of politicians corrupt, or maybe just thick enough, to run with the lies.  

[Confusion of VIs]

For those who seem to think that the price of oil and gas going through the roof is a reason to double down on fossils and delay the move to renewables. 

OIL SYSTEM COLLAPSING SO FAST It May Derail Renewables

Strange to see an article like this in the telegraph.

Technology saves us: Oxford sees a $26 trillion gain from net zero   Decarbonisation is no global burden, but a bonanza for those quick to seize it

[Saving For a Space Ship]

Climate crisis: economists ‘grossly undervalue young lives’, warns Stern

Economists have failed to take account of ‘immense risks and potential loss of life’, says author of landmark review

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/oct/26/climate-crisis-economists-grossly-undervalue-young-lives-warns-stern  

'Economists have failed to take account of the “immense risks and potential loss of life” that could occur as a result of the climate crisis, he said, as well as badly underestimating the speed at which the costs of clean technologies, such as solar and wind energy, have fallen.'..

[kzb]

15 hours ago, Confusion of VIs said:

Then you haven't being paying attention.

Numerous examples of them putting profits ahead of human lives and health over the last 100yrs e.g. the danger of putting lead in petrol was known back in 1925 yet despite this, and there being non toxic alternatives available, the industry spent the next 50 years denying there was any problem and producing fake studies to back up their lies. The latest estimates are that lead in petrol caused or hastened the deaths of over 400,000 Americans a year for over 50yrs. 

They are still doing it, spending hundreds of millions a year promoting FUD intended to slow the move to renewables and EVs. 

Their latest big lie is that Blue Hydrogen is the way forward. Unfortunately there are still plenty of politicians corrupt, or maybe just thick enough, to run with the lies.  

All companies do this !

Fossil fuels are still providing 90% of your energy in this country, even if you have a Tesla.

You know, in 1971, air pollution was four times worse than it is now.  I recall seeing the blue haze over Manchester on the rare sunny days.  Earlier than that, in the 1950's and 60's it must've been terrible in an urban area, with all the coal burning.

The people who lived through all that are now in God's waiting room, the longest-lived generation in history.  I think some people worry too much.

[kzb]

11 hours ago, Saving For a Space Ship said:

Climate crisis: economists ‘grossly undervalue young lives’, warns Stern

Economists have failed to take account of ‘immense risks and potential loss of life’, says author of landmark review

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/oct/26/climate-crisis-economists-grossly-undervalue-young-lives-warns-stern  

'Economists have failed to take account of the “immense risks and potential loss of life” that could occur as a result of the climate crisis, he said, as well as badly underestimating the speed at which the costs of clean technologies, such as solar and wind energy, have fallen.'..

Numbers killed by adverse weather conditions world-wide has fallen with time.  Here in Britain it is hardly a leading cause of death and neither will it be. 

I suppose you could include the thousands of pensioners who supposedly die of cold, who knows which way that will go.  Insane heating costs might make more die, or increased temperatures might help them.

Wind energy has not fallen in price.  Our large wind investment has not protected us from record electricity prices.  Ignore the strike prices, we will not see wind energy at £47/MWh in practice.  They are not obligated to keep us supplied nor to supply us with electricity at the strike price.  It was bid to win the contract pure and simple.

[Si1]

1 hour ago, kzb said:

Numbers killed by adverse weather conditions world-wide has fallen with time.  Here in Britain it is hardly a leading cause of death and neither will it be. 

weather is not the same as climate

 

 

 

 

 

 

1 hour ago, kzb said:

I suppose you could include the thousands of pensioners who supposedly die of cold, who knows which way that will go.  Insane heating costs might make more die, or increased temperatures might help them.

Wind energy has not fallen in price.  Our large wind investment has not protected us from record electricity prices.  Ignore the strike prices, we will not see wind energy at £47/MWh in practice.  They are not obligated to keep us supplied nor to supply us with electricity at the strike price.  It was bid to win the contract pure and simple.

 

[kzb]

28 minutes ago, Si1 said:

weather is not the same as climate

If you look at my post in context you will see it makes sense.

The article was saying millions will die as as result of climate change.  Included in that are deaths from extreme weather events such as hurricanes.  I am informing people that the number killed has reduced over the past decades.  If you research this you will find it to be true.

Here in Britain I don't think we need to be too concerned.  OK so we get a few more days above 35 degrees, not the end of the world.

[Confusion of VIs]

5 hours ago, kzb said:

Wind energy has not fallen in price.  Our large wind investment has not protected us from record electricity prices.  Ignore the strike prices, we will not see wind energy at £47/MWh in practice.  They are not obligated to keep us supplied nor to supply us with electricity at the strike price.  It was bid to win the contract pure and simple.

They sell at the market price and receive a top up if that is below the strike price, that's how it was always intended to work.  

The current high prices are a boon for renewable energy suppliers and equipment manufacturers. Turbine and especially solar panel suppliers are selling everything they can make at prices that are high enough to drive massive new investment in renewables. 

The best thing that could now happen to speed the transition to renewables would be a few years of continued high gas prices and oil going well over $100 a barrel.

[kzb]

2 minutes ago, Confusion of VIs said:

They sell at the market price and receive a top up if that is below the strike price, that's how it was always intended to work.  (1)

The current high prices are a boon for renewable energy suppliers and equipment manufacturers. Turbine and especially solar panel suppliers are selling everything they can make at prices that are high enough to drive massive new investment in renewables. 

The best thing that could now happen to speed the transition to renewables would be a few years of continued high gas prices and oil going well over $100 a barrel.  (2)

(1) It is going to be seen as a ridiculously one-sided deal in the future.  You missed the fact that we are obligated to prioritise buying whatever power they can produce from wind ahead of fossil fuel sources.

(2)  If renewables were really that cheap, they wouldn't need the current high prices to be competitive.

[Confusion of VIs]

4 minutes ago, kzb said:

(1) It is going to be seen as a ridiculously one-sided deal in the future.  You missed the fact that we are obligated to prioritise buying whatever power they can produce from wind ahead of fossil fuel sources.

(2)  If renewables were really that cheap, they wouldn't need the current high prices to be competitive.

1 Good that's how it should be, at least until the fossil fuel burners can permanently capture all the CO2 they produce.

2 At the current high prices they are more than competitive(today even Nuclear is competitive).  So the transition will speed up and people will be encouraged to take action themselves (insulating their houses, fitting solar panels maybe even realising they don't need  a SUV for the school run). A win win.    

 

[skinnylattej]

10 hours ago, Confusion of VIs said:

1 Good that's how it should be, at least until the fossil fuel burners can permanently capture all the CO2 they produce.

2 At the current high prices they are more than competitive(today even Nuclear is competitive).  So the transition will speed up and people will be encouraged to take action themselves (insulating their houses, fitting solar panels maybe even realising they don't need  a SUV for the school run). A win win.    

 

Don't need a SUV for the school run! You are living in a different world to me.

Next door leave at 8:00 a.m. to take the kids to school in a SUV.  It is chaos outside the school, as the SUVs are double parked, and then bus can't get through, and everything gridlocks.

According to my GPS the school is 1.4 miles away.......................

[kzb]

12 minutes ago, skinnylattej said:

Don't need a SUV for the school run! You are living in a different world to me.

Next door leave at 8:00 a.m. to take the kids to school in a SUV.  It is chaos outside the school, as the SUVs are double parked, and then bus can't get through, and everything gridlocks.

According to my GPS the school is 1.4 miles away.......................

Those people won't suffer though.  If they can pay £50k (or whatever it is) for an SUV (plus their other car of course), they can buy an E-SUV just as well.

Although you can probably look forward to them running out of charge outside school, leading to even worse congestion.