Savings rates nudging up

[TenYearToGetMyMoneyBack]

1 hour ago, henry the king said:

I'd consider a 5 year lock with them should inflation/employment weaken.

Just 4.5% for that with a 365 day penalty. You would have to be confident that rates will drop to take that one out. It is interesting that in the historic adverts I keep finding savings adverts where the 5 year fix was significantly more than the 2 year.

[henry the king]

50 minutes ago, TenYearToGetMyMoneyBack said:

Just 4.5% for that with a 365 day penalty. You would have to be confident that rates will drop to take that one out. It is interesting that in the historic adverts I keep finding savings adverts where the 5 year fix was significantly more than the 2 year.

Yeh, it depends really. I might go for the 2 year at least.

The thing is, if a hard recession comes then rates will drop briefly and having a fixed at 4.5% when the best rates you can get will be 1% or so would be amazing.

I'd wait to see at least 2 months of falling wage growth to do this though.

 

Edited July 15, 2023 by henry the king

[Nomadd]

4 hours ago, TenYearToGetMyMoneyBack said:

 It is interesting that in the historic adverts I keep finding savings adverts where the 5 year fix was significantly more than the 2 year.

Because inverted yield curves are the exception, not the norm.

[A.steve]

I've been looking at best-buy lists for savings accounts...  While it's good to see 1/2 year bonds at ~6%, I'm more interested - right now - in instant access savings.

The thing that I find a bit strange is that the good deals all seem to be from banks I'd never heard of before.

• Chip - 4.51% (but requires one to use an 'App' - eeeugh! )
• Coventry BS - 4.5% - online - restrictions on maximum number of withdrawals.
• Oxbury - 4.46% - online.  ( Weird nonsense about needing specific smartphone... )
• Secure Trust Bank - 4.45% - online.

These banks (selected for > 4.4% AER) include only one name I recognise - Coventry Building Society.  That's a fairly traditional option.  I'm wary of 'Chip' - as I anticipate technical problems with the App if ever there were to be a reason to want money out in a hurry. "Oxbury" and "Secure Trust Bank" are both new names to me.  Does anyone here use them?

 

Edited July 19, 2023 by A.steve

[Maghull Mike]

Thanks for the update

[Bruce Banner]

Fixed Rate ISA | ISA Rates | NatWest

1 year 5.7%

2 years 5.9%

[MARTINX9]

4 hours ago, Bruce Banner said:

Fixed Rate ISA | ISA Rates | NatWest

1 year 5.7%

2 years 5.9%

I note the 2 year fixed only has a 90 day interest penalty for transfers out - typically 2 year fixes have a 120 or even 180 day penalty.

It will remain available to apply for until no later than 9 August for new customers (may close sooner) - and you must make a payment or transfer in by 1 September.

https://www.natwest.com/savings/isa-overview/fixed-isa.html

 

Edited July 20, 2023 by MARTINX9

[Bruce Banner]

6 hours ago, MARTINX9 said:

I note the 2 year fixed only has a 90 day interest penalty for transfers out - typically 2 year fixes have a 120 or even 180 day penalty.

It will remain available to apply for until no later than 9 August for new customers (may close sooner) - and you must make a payment or transfer in by 1 September.

https://www.natwest.com/savings/isa-overview/fixed-isa.html

 

Even better...

The Early Closure Charge will be the lower of the amount of interest earned on your account or 90 days’ interest.

Edited July 20, 2023 by Bruce Banner

[wighty]

11 hours ago, A.steve said:

I've been looking at best-buy lists for savings accounts...  While it's good to see 1/2 year bonds at ~6%, I'm more interested - right now - in instant access savings.

The thing that I find a bit strange is that the good deals all seem to be from banks I'd never heard of before.

• Chip - 4.51% (but requires one to use an 'App' - eeeugh! )
• Coventry BS - 4.5% - online - restrictions on maximum number of withdrawals.
• Oxbury - 4.46% - online.  ( Weird nonsense about needing specific smartphone... )
• Secure Trust Bank - 4.45% - online.

These banks (selected for > 4.4% AER) include only one name I recognise - Coventry Building Society.  That's a fairly traditional option.  I'm wary of 'Chip' - as I anticipate technical problems with the App if ever there were to be a reason to want money out in a hurry. "Oxbury" and "Secure Trust Bank" are both new names to me.  Does anyone here use them?

 

Chip is great.

Easy app to use.

Just link to your main account and transfer back and forth keeping a low balance in the main account. Takes a few seconds to do the transactions

No need for any other instant access account.

[A.steve]

27 minutes ago, wighty said:

Chip is great.  Easy app to use.

I *really* don't like or trust apps for anything.  I don't like or trust the smartphone security model.

After a bit of research, I discovered that Oxbury also require the use of an app... on Android or IOS - and they don't have any alternative way to transact money out if that app should stop working.  Disappointing.

 

[wighty]

1 minute ago, A.steve said:

I *really* don't like or trust apps for anything.  I don't like or trust the smartphone security model.

After a bit of research, I discovered that Oxbury also require the use of an app... on Android or IOS - and they don't have any alternative way to transact money out if that app should stop working.  Disappointing.

 

Don't see app security any better or worse than other operating systems.

You are locking yourself out of a lot of facilities.

Whatever makes you feel safe

 

 

[Blobsy]

Chip are great. The only issue I had was when a 2K transaction was ’lost’ over one weekend which was a bit disconcerting but it turns out the problem was with the legacy bank TSB system being archaic not Chip. I got a ‘sorry’ from TSB that was it (Apple recently charged me in error and gave me a £150 voucher as an apology).

Edited July 20, 2023 by Blobsy

[a5042680]

Got £85k at 4% in Virgin ISA from December 2022.  Worth the switch to the Natwest 2 year at 5.9% do you think?

[Bruce Banner]

1 minute ago, a5042680 said:

Got £85k at 4% in Virgin ISA from December 2022.  Worth the switch to the Natwest 2 year at 5.9% do you think?

Probably, because Virgin penalties for early withdrawal are normally low. But, are rates still rising?

I'm in a similar position 4.4% from November 2022, but holding fire for now, hoping for a 6% 5 year fix. 

[a5042680]

Yeah 90 days worth so basicaly 1% charge.  I'll be getting an extra 1.9%pa for 17 months so seems a no brainer...

[Dyson Fury]

14 hours ago, MARTINX9 said:

I note the 2 year fixed only has a 90 day interest penalty for transfers out - typically 2 year fixes have a 120 or even 180 day penalty.

It will remain available to apply for until no later than 9 August for new customers (may close sooner) - and you must make a payment or transfer in by 1 September.

https://www.natwest.com/savings/isa-overview/fixed-isa.html

 

1.  Do be aware that, like many similar accounts offered by High Street banks, when the fixed-term account matures it converts into an ISA account paying a very poor rate of interest. (currently just 1.9% for NatWest, for amounts up to £25000).

2. Don't expect efficient servicing of your account. The administrative systems of NatWest will be under very considerable strain for the foreseeable future, under the weight of tens of thousands of Subject Access Requests from customers asking what information NatWest holds on them, and why their accounts have been closed.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/personal-banking/current-accounts/natwest-data-requests-nigel-farage-coutts-scandal/

Plus, the thousands of complaints about NatWest's Chief Executive apparently feeding disinformation to a BBC reporter about why Coutts Bank closed Nigel Farage's account.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/07/19/bank-chief-evening-with-bbc-journalist-farage-tweet-claim/

[Bear Necessities]

7 hours ago, A.steve said:

I *really* don't like or trust apps for anything.  I don't like or trust the smartphone security model.

After a bit of research, I discovered that Oxbury also require the use of an app... on Android or IOS - and they don't have any alternative way to transact money out if that app should stop working.  Disappointing.

 

If anything the app model is way safer than the online banking model, as with the app you have to present your actual finger ont he fingerprint reader to access the account, in place of passcodes or passwords or other things that people can get a hold of.  I've never known a scammer yet that can convince someone to post them a finger.

Having to use biometrics means you have a physical key and nobody can access that account remotely, which is far more secure.

Edited July 20, 2023 by Bear Necessities

[PeanutButter]

13 minutes ago, Bear Necessities said:

If anything the app model is way safer than the online banking model, as with the app you have to present your actual finger ont he fingerprint reader to access the account, in place of passcodes or passwords or other things that people can get a hold of.  I've never known a scammer yet that can convince someone to post them a finger.

Having to use biometrics means you have a physical key and nobody can access that account remotely, which is far more secure.

All anyone needs to clean you out is your phone and phone PIN.

https://www.prove.com/blog/what-is-phone-theft-fraud

 

[Dyson Fury]

22 minutes ago, Bear Necessities said:

If anything the app model is way safer than the online banking model, as with the app you have to present your actual finger ont he fingerprint reader to access the account, in place of passcodes or passwords or other things that people can get a hold of.  I've never known a scammer yet that can convince someone to post them a finger.

You make an excellent point (although at least one Dan Brown book contains a key plot element where someone is murdered so that the killer can amputate their finger, or cut out their eye, to gain access to a biometrically secure bank vault or something).  But you're referring to the security of getting access to a mobile device.  The security of the programming of the app is a different issue.   Visiting a well-known foodie destination a while ago, it seemed that every food outlet wanted you to download a different app to order and pay.  There is no way I am going to input my bank details into an app from a company I've never heard of and which might be full of security loopholes.

Edited July 20, 2023 by Dyson Fury

[Sackboii]

5 minutes ago, PeanutButter said:

All anyone needs to clean you out is your phone and phone PIN.

https://www.prove.com/blog/what-is-phone-theft-fraud

 

Depends on the app in question. Early ones, yes, because Finger-Print/Touch-ID/Face-ID etc was just a proxy for a username and password/pin.

Proper apps use biometrics as a private key for 256-bit (or higher) AES encryption, for example. But it's hard to know which apps do what.

[Bear Necessities]

7 minutes ago, PeanutButter said:

All anyone needs to clean you out is your phone and phone PIN.

https://www.prove.com/blog/what-is-phone-theft-fraud

 

How would they access the banking app if it's set to biometric login?

They'd have to have the phone, the phone pin (although I log in to that with biometrics too)

and they'd also have to cut my finger off because the banking app doesnt use a pin, it uses my fingerprint.

and for starters they physically need the phone. Anyone stealing the phone from me wouldn't have the pin because I don't write it on the phone. and anyone trying to get in without the phone (phishing scam) can't either because you need to have the finger and the phone in the same physical location to access the account.

That's the point. 

That's why an app account is safer than one with a web portal and an app, because for the web portal ones you often only need the login details and memorable words and can type them in from anywhere, without having to have the physical device (and finger) in front of you. (thankfully now a lot more are sending a one time code to a mobile device as a back up (again because you need to have the physical phone in order to request the code).

 

[Bear Necessities]

15 minutes ago, Dyson Fury said:

You make an excellent point (although at least one Dan Brown book contains a key plot element where someone is murdered so that the killer can amputate their finger, or cut out their eye, to gain access to a biometrically secure bank vault or something).  But you're referring to the security of getting access to a mobile device.  The security of the programming of the app is a different issue.   Visiting a well-known foodie destination a while ago, it seemed that every food outlet wanted you to download a different app to order and pay.  There is no way I am going to input my bank details into an app from a company I've never heard of and which might be full of security loopholes.

I'd suggest that any app by a bank covered by the UK standards £85k guarantee scheme would be pretty safe. Certainly no less safe than website based ones (Which most of them also have.  All the legacy banks have both)  Unless you are saying you'd only trust ones you can take your passbook into and ID into and get money out that way, like in the olden times? but if not then it seems to be out of website based ones or app based ones, then at least the app ones use biometrics.  

The apps and the websites and the telephone banking are essentially just different front ends to the same system, so it all depends on how you want to access it.

Especially one recommended by MSE and other outlets as a legitimate enterprise.  It's not like it's Dodgy Dave's Backstreet Banking App that nobody has ever heard of.  

But the difference between these online only banks (Atom, Chip, Monzo) rates and the legacy banks is sometimes nearly a couple of percent more interest.  Which on 80k is over a grand a year.  

Also because they are online only they would live or die based on these apps.  They know that if the app have a flaw in it then their entire business is down the pan, because they don't have anything else to fall back on.  I certainly don't lose any sleep over having 80k in each of the top 5 percentage earning accounts (which are usually but not always the challenger banks), as long as they are ones I've heard of, or read good things about from trusted sources.

 

as for food apps - yeah I agree there.  Some of those are probably badly coded messes, but then their business is food (or data theft) and not banking.  

 

Edited July 20, 2023 by Bear Necessities

[DarkHorseWaits-NoMore]

Any login, finger print or whatever will come down to a 1 or 0 in the right place at the right time in the software. So many exploits in the infrastructure. Spread the risk, diversify so as not to cry, should the worst happen. Once your identity details get bulk lifted (from one of a thousand databases you are probably in) 'out there', there's not much you can do anyway.

 

 

Edited July 20, 2023 by DarkHorseWaits-NoMore
typo

[PeanutButter]

28 minutes ago, Bear Necessities said:

How would they access the banking app if it's set to biometric login?

They'd have to have the phone, the phone pin (although I log in to that with biometrics too)

and they'd also have to cut my finger off because the banking app doesnt use a pin, it uses my fingerprint.

and for starters they physically need the phone. Anyone stealing the phone from me wouldn't have the pin because I don't write it on the phone. and anyone trying to get in without the phone (phishing scam) can't either because you need to have the finger and the phone in the same physical location to access the account.

That's the point. 

That's why an app account is safer than one with a web portal and an app, because for the web portal ones you often only need the login details and memorable words and can type them in from anywhere, without having to have the physical device (and finger) in front of you. (thankfully now a lot more are sending a one time code to a mobile device as a back up (again because you need to have the physical phone in order to request the code).

 

Do me a favour and try to access your banking apps without biometric log in. Just try it. 

Let me know when the pop up asking for your phone PIN comes up. 

[hotblack42]

54 minutes ago, Dyson Fury said:

Don't expect efficient servicing of your account. The administrative systems of NatWest will be under very considerable strain

Applied for 2 year ISA, email acknowledgement took maybe 15 mins to arrive.. saying 'You're almost there..' 

WTF?  Our other ISAs were all up & running same day

After a lot of fiddling about asking 'like I'm a five year old' questions of the chatbot it emerges that it can take up to 5 working days to process ISA applications.

This is not a reassuring in respect of actually getting this live & the ongoing servicing & eventual withdrawal.

Anyone know if there is a slick provider offering a same day, c 5.5% ISA, on demand and where a human can be called upon if needed?