Keith Wibble Posted October 29, 2020 Share Posted October 29, 2020 He was effectively given an ultimatum of don't do it again. You can disagree all you want. Freedom of speech allows me to bad mouth my employer - do it on TV and they can claim disrepute and disciplinary action. JC has no right to the Labour Whip, he accepts certain terms otherwise they are forced to withdraw it. Basically he's back to campaigning again. It is naive to believe he's been manipulated into this. It was such an obvious response to what was a nonsense contradictory interview - if this was a Tory MP saying I accept report then disputing most of the points / downplaying it we'd rightly be giving them a kicking for being disingenuous double-talkers. I watched the interview and thought, then you don't accept the report. Saying 'let me be clear' every few mins didn't help as he sounded exactly like a politician trying non-answers too. I came away thinking he didn't actually accept the report but didn't want to say I don't accept it. Like I said, it doesn't work like that in the Labour Party. If you get suspended it has to follow the rules and this is where the party will come unstuck. There is due process and the more I hear the more it looks like it wasn't followed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Social Justice League Posted October 29, 2020 Share Posted October 29, 2020 Like I said, it doesn't work like that in the Labour Party. If you get suspended it has to follow the rules and this is where the party will come unstuck. There is due process and the more I hear the more it looks like it wasn't followed. I agree. Starmer jumped the gun and kicked Corbyn out without following any kind of due process. I think he's made a big mistake today tbh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Wibble Posted October 29, 2020 Share Posted October 29, 2020 He was effectively given an ultimatum of don't do it again. You can disagree all you want. Freedom of speech allows me to bad mouth my employer - do it on TV and they can claim disrepute and disciplinary action. JC has no right to the Labour Whip, he accepts certain terms otherwise they are forced to withdraw it. Basically he's back to campaigning again. It is naive to believe he's been manipulated into this. It was such an obvious response to what was a nonsense contradictory interview - if this was a Tory MP saying I accept report then disputing most of the points / downplaying it we'd rightly be giving them a kicking for being disingenuous double-talkers. I watched the interview and thought, then you don't accept the report. Saying 'let me be clear' every few mins didn't help as he sounded exactly like a politician trying non-answers too. I came away thinking he didn't actually accept the report but didn't want to say I don't accept it. Corbyn was employed by the party when leader but not now. " Who technically employs UK Members of Parliament? and When do they technically become employed as M.P.s? This information is held by the House of Commons. Members of Parliament (MPs) are not employed in any legal sense of the word. MPs are elected to their position by the electorate after putting themselves up as a candidate. They become a MP once they have been confirmed by the local Electoral Officer as having won the election in their constituency. It may also help you to know that the House of Commons is also not responsible for a Member's salary and expenses, which is paid by the Independent Parliamentary Standards Authority (IPSA). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
24gray24 Posted October 29, 2020 Share Posted October 29, 2020 Yep. That’s the Antisemitism we are talking about in a nutshell. So is being anti israel okay under comrade starmer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddog Posted October 29, 2020 Share Posted October 29, 2020 I liked the non compliant way Jeeza was wearing his mask (not over the nose). Hopefully we will be seeing him at a Covid protest soon with his more intelligent brother!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staffsknot Posted October 29, 2020 Share Posted October 29, 2020 Corbyn was employed by the party when leader but not now. " Who technically employs UK Members of Parliament? and When do they technically become employed as M.P.s? This information is held by the House of Commons. Members of Parliament (MPs) are not employed in any legal sense of the word. MPs are elected to their position by the electorate after putting themselves up as a candidate. They become a MP once they have been confirmed by the local Electoral Officer as having won the election in their constituency. It may also help you to know that the House of Commons is also not responsible for a Member's salary and expenses, which is paid by the Independent Parliamentary Standards Authority (IPSA). The Labour Party is currently trying to come up with an action plan in response to EHRC report or potentially face legal action. JC was suspended by the party not the leadership. I'm sorry but there is a great deal of myopic acceptance that JC has been knifed when he has basically done a a Judean People's Front Suicide Squad right in full view. The hand on the knife is his own. Whatever you may think he's walked himself into this whether a trap laid or just his own bloody mindedness and failure to accept the criticism. Labour will now spend its time punching itself until the EHRC deadline comes due and anytime Starmer lands any kind of hit on the Tories there'll be a Momentum mate of JC will chuck this one up to start off the next bout of self flagellation. As an outsider it is like watching people on a train tracks arguing over the type of train that is about to hit them. Also some of the comments on here that Jews are capitalists as a reason for all this is pretty bloody distasteful and starting down the same path as the rightwinger Soros tropes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staffsknot Posted October 29, 2020 Share Posted October 29, 2020 So is being anti israel okay under comrade starmer? Israel and being Jewish two separate things there are Jewish people who condemn Israel you know. It is disingenuous folks ( including some Israeli politicians) who say otherwise. There are also quite a few people who have a pop at Jewish folk under the disguise of criticising Israel / Zionism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zugzwang Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 A very measured response I agree with. To compare it is very much like progressive African leaders who would excuse comrade Mugabe and other dictators actions because they were fellow freedom fighters. JC literally backed people who'd been former comrades and protestors until given no option. Former comrades? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
user not found Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 Has anyone got specific examples of the labour party anti semitism that led to all this? Not being anti Israel, and not "failing to deal with or blocking" complaints. Actual examples of Jews being slurred or discriminated against. I'm genuinely interested as all I hear/see is the resulting outcry but not what triggered it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warlord Posted October 30, 2020 Author Share Posted October 30, 2020 (edited) Former comrades? Definitely one of her biggest mistakes was letting Mugabe take over. But you have to remember he was quite respected back then and seen as a credible 'leader'. Thatcher wanted a peace deal. Edited October 30, 2020 by Warlord Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
debtlessmanc Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 (edited) So is being anti israel okay under comrade starmer? Any British political party has to focus its concerns on domestic matters. Of course it will have a foreign policy and that should extend to criticising states that abuse human rights. But be very very careful about pandering to people whose vote could be bought by a promise to nuke tel aviv. That kind of thing is why the Middle East is the basket case it is. Edited October 30, 2020 by debtlessmanc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregBowman Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 (edited) The Labour Party is currently trying to come up with an action plan in response to EHRC report or potentially face legal action. JC was suspended by the party not the leadership. I'm sorry but there is a great deal of myopic acceptance that JC has been knifed when he has basically done a a Judean People's Front Suicide Squad right in full view. The hand on the knife is his own. Whatever you may think he's walked himself into this whether a trap laid or just his own bloody mindedness Apparently it went down more like the legal counsel advised the party to suspend him - easy to rubber stamp granted But his suspension is a direct result of his comments after the publication not the report itself Lost on the Corbyn fan club Edited October 30, 2020 by GregBowman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeanutButter Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 Definitely one of her biggest mistakes was letting Mugabe take over. But you have to remember he was quite respected back then and seen as a credible 'leader'. Thatcher wanted a peace deal. Indeed it must have been easy to ignore 20,000 Ndebele killed at his command. https://uk.reuters.com/article/us-zimbabwe-mugabe-violence-idUSKCN1VR18H Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staffsknot Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 Former comrades? Political expediency at the time, and I detest Thatcher at the best of times so wouldn't excuse her anything I was making the point even well respected SA leaders refused to condemn Mugabe until they had no option, mainly as they viewed him as a comrade freedom fighter. Even out of office the line continued until his overt attacks on the MDC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
byron78 Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 8 hours ago, zugzwang said: Former comrades? Tbf, it would have been difficult to post him his knighthood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roman Roady Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 He's an anti Zionist not antisemitic. When South Africa became majority rule the left needed another bogey man to rally against...it was Israel. South Africa was easy...a poor country at the far end of the world with few friends and an obvious system of social injustice. Israel is more of a challenge! Its nothing to do with the Jews, however it has been branded as antisemitic by the capitalists because it invokes all the horrors of the 1930's. Anyway every cloud...our ineffective opposition just got a lot weaker. Prepare for a split along the lines of the SDP...and that did so well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamnumerate Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 Tbf, it would have been difficult to post him his knighthood. He was knighted by Major not Thatcher. I am not quite sure he was still being praised in 1994. In 1980 I can understand I don't think many people realized he was going to kill thousands of his own people. https://www.enca.com/africa/10-things-you-didnt-know-about-robert-mugabe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamnumerate Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 If you keep banging on about israel and international banking conspiracies, sooner or late you end up sounding like some pretty unsavoury people. The UK electorate wants someone who is bothered them, laying a few wreaths at the cenotaph rather than graves of the terrorists from Munich. Israel is a toxic subject best left alone. His concern was similar to that of the kennedy (US) who was stopped by a roadblock in belfast and told the squaddy to go home, the sqauddies reply was to point to the top of the hill and say "I was born there" Very true. The book he endorsed was antisemitic. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48117744 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richmondtw Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 In a statement afterwards, Mr Corbyn said anti-Semitism within Labour had been "dramatically overstated". He meant UNDERSTATED with all his support for Hamas and Hezbollah. Scum Makes me laugh that the leftie snowflakes call everyone else a racist but support a party that hates Jews. Astonishing but there are none so blind as those who will not see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roman Roady Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 I have just enjoyed a delicious bacon bagel...is that me expelled too? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staffsknot Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 Apparently it went down more like the legal counsel advised the party to suspend him - easy to rubber stamp granted But his suspension is a direct result of his comments after the publication not the report itself Lost on the Corbyn fan club Sadly I have been called a closet Tory before for even mentioning he had messed up anything. Odd I'm a Green. I just remember my Dad saying "He's a proper old style Labour politician unlike Blair, he's for the working man" Followed by watching him repeatedly deliver a sermon instead of asking an incisive question, nor deviate from a pre-prepared speech even when useless Gov offered up open goals. His final verdict came when JC had gov over a barrel and dithered over Europe then refused to join a coalition if he couldn't lead it (GNU). He didn't just watch snippets or read opinion pieces he watched PMQs. It was during C4 News I was there he uttered the words "He's useless, he's not Old Labour he's lost. At least that smug g*t Blair was effective". That is a lifetime Labour supporter disappointed in JC. All this is ancillary to the fact JC supporters are pushing out that the idea he was pollitically knifed - yes he was by former leader JC and his own statements. Labour cannot form an action plan and avoid legal reprecussions while having MPs and party members downplaying or debating the veracity of the report. JC had two options accept the report or start a civil war. Went with option 2. Will now spend time doing what he enjoys, making grand statements on an issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
byron78 Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 (edited) 22 minutes ago, iamnumerate said: He was knighted by Major not Thatcher. I am not quite sure he was still being praised in 1994. In 1980 I can understand I don't think many people realized he was going to kill thousands of his own people. https://www.enca.com/africa/10-things-you-didnt-know-about-robert-mugabe Yes. Thatcher is bang to rights for her love of a good paedo (easy to control apparently). About the only thing she said about Mugabe that might cause offence now though, would be how much more she liked him than Mandela. (Not that I'm convinced genocide would have put Thatcher off much RE: making friends. Pinochet was beloved.) Edited October 30, 2020 by byron78 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
byron78 Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 10 minutes ago, Roman Roady said: I have just enjoyed a delicious bacon bagel...is that me expelled too? Ed Milliband will be worried. (In hindsight, wasn't The Sun sneering at Jewish heritage Milliband for eating bacon badly, a little bit... you know). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregBowman Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 (edited) It's a political thread involving Jeremy Corbyn, what did you expect? Why was his response stupid? Not sure what you meant re political thread ? The man couldn't just keep his trap shut and consider his response exactly the same behaviour left wingers coat off Trump for - in that context stupid response have a bit of grace or start an internal civil war as @Staffsknotsaid he chose option 2 loyal only to his dinosaur views not his party Edited October 30, 2020 by GregBowman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeanutButter Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 I have just enjoyed a delicious bacon bagel...is that me expelled too? Roman Goady. 🙄 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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