reddog Posted May 30, 2020 Author Share Posted May 30, 2020 (edited) 18 hours ago, GregBowman said: In my personal experience a lot of employees will tip themselves into redundancy - discussing this with one of my clients today About 45 people furloughed and the support and contact from the business has been superb ( and they are topping up the furlough money ) yet interaction with the business from them has been abysmal - I would be all over it like a rash Makes it easy to cut and paste from furlough to redundant I think there are some stupid people out there that don't fully understand the seriousness of the situation. Personally I have found a new found love for my company. Edited May 30, 2020 by reddog Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roman Roady Posted May 30, 2020 Share Posted May 30, 2020 10 hours ago, Orb said: It's happening already in my line of work. I read another forum for lorry drivers. One poster talked of his company announcing the process of making 100 drivers redundant starting next week. Another poster said a full time position was available at his company at Boston, Lincs, and 134 drivers have applied so far. This in an industry that for the last few decades has been reporting an HGV driver shortage of 50,000 drivers. With driver automation this line of work always had a time stamp on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longgone Posted May 30, 2020 Share Posted May 30, 2020 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52843996 'Why couldn't they keep us furloughed?' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Social Justice League Posted May 30, 2020 Share Posted May 30, 2020 If enough people end up on the dole, we will see a citizens income rolled out imo. Paying millions of people dole and housing benefit and council tax benefit and the other 5000 benefits that are available will cost far more than just giving everyone a payment. Scrap all benefits and all the expense that goes with them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MARTINX9 Posted May 30, 2020 Share Posted May 30, 2020 (edited) 4 hours ago, longgone said: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52843996 'Why couldn't they keep us furloughed?' I was a bit sad to read that story about most Debenhams cafes closing permanently. WIth my Telegraph subscription I am entitled to a free coffee after 2pm every day in Debenhams! The cafes were possibly the only reason many people still went into their stores. More generally 17 of its stores will never reopen and a further 5 are at risk. https://www.thesun.co.uk/money/11727690/debenhams-to-axe-jobs/ Edited May 30, 2020 by MARTINX9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeanutButter Posted May 30, 2020 Share Posted May 30, 2020 3 minutes ago, MARTINX9 said: I was a bit sad to read that story about most Debenhams cafes closing permanently. WIth my Telegraph subscription I am entitled to a free coffee after 2pm every day in Debenhams! The cafes were possibly the only reason many people still went into their stores. Your free coffees tipped them over the edge! ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MARTINX9 Posted May 30, 2020 Share Posted May 30, 2020 (edited) 9 minutes ago, PeanutButter said: Your free coffees tipped them over the edge! ? I always bought a cake too so Debenhams didn't lose out - so in one sense it will do wonders for my waistline long term! The Telegraph have stopped the offer now anyway - no idea if it will be back. It is of course very unclear when in store cafes and restaurants will be able to reopen in Department stores - I also have two free coffee and cake vouchers to use at John Lewis. Maybe they will be able to do take away? Waitrose stopped selling (free) coffees from their in store machines since lockdown - but the coffee vending machines in M&S and the costa ones in Tescos remain open. Are Waitrose shoppers more infectious than M&S ones? Edited May 30, 2020 by MARTINX9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeanutButter Posted May 30, 2020 Share Posted May 30, 2020 2 minutes ago, MARTINX9 said: I always bought a cake too so Debenhams didn't lose out - so in one sense it will do wonders for my waistline long term! The Telegraph have stopped the offer now anyway - no idea if it will be back! It is of course very unclear when in store cafes and restaurants will be able to reopen in Department stores - I also have two free coffee and cake vouchers to use at John Lewis. Maybe they will be able to do take away? Waitrose stopped selling (free) coffees from their in store machines since lockdown - but the coffee vending machines in M&S and the costa ones in Tescos remain open. Are Waitrose shoppers more infectious than M&S ones? Seem to recall Waitrose stopped the free paper cups? In which case I don’t think the reusable ones are considered hygenic now. Might explain it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MARTINX9 Posted May 30, 2020 Share Posted May 30, 2020 6 minutes ago, PeanutButter said: Seem to recall Waitrose stopped the free paper cups? In which case I don’t think the reusable ones are considered hygenic now. Might explain it. Well it meant they could sell those collapsible reusable ones for £10 - instead of giving you a disposable cup costing 5p for free! They know their customers - who are very 'green'! I got my disposable cup from Poundland and its lasts longer. A bit off topic - but I do wonder how many fewer coffees were sold in April vs February? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longgone Posted May 30, 2020 Share Posted May 30, 2020 48 minutes ago, MARTINX9 said: I was a bit sad to read that story about most Debenhams cafes closing permanently. WIth my Telegraph subscription I am entitled to a free coffee after 2pm every day in Debenhams! The cafes were possibly the only reason many people still went into their stores. More generally 17 of its stores will never reopen and a further 5 are at risk. https://www.thesun.co.uk/money/11727690/debenhams-to-axe-jobs/ you need a bean to cup machine, no need for vending machines ever again. just be prepared for the monthly descale. ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regprentice Posted May 30, 2020 Share Posted May 30, 2020 (edited) 5 hours ago, longgone said: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52843996 'Why couldn't they keep us furloughed?' I'd imagine they might outsource the coffee shops. As others point out its a core part of the business model (despite what the liquidators seem to think). Charge a rent on the space and let the subcontracted coffee shop worry about turning a profit 37 minutes ago, MARTINX9 said: A bit off topic - but I do wonder how many fewer coffees were sold in April vs February? Borises local Costa certainly seems to be open.... Edited May 30, 2020 by regprentice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottbeard Posted May 30, 2020 Share Posted May 30, 2020 2 hours ago, regprentice said: Borises local Costa certainly seems to be open.... Lots of coffee shops are now - for takeaway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longgone Posted May 30, 2020 Share Posted May 30, 2020 2 hours ago, regprentice said: I'd imagine they might outsource the coffee shops. As others point out its a core part of the business model (despite what the liquidators seem to think). Charge a rent on the space and let the subcontracted coffee shop worry about turning a profit Borises local Costa certainly seems to be open.... a concession in primark maybe while the plebs peruse the plastic clothing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MARTINX9 Posted May 30, 2020 Share Posted May 30, 2020 15 minutes ago, longgone said: a concession in primark maybe while the plebs peruse the plastic clothing Boris might have got his costa coffee at Tesco. They never shut their costa vending machines in store even at peak lockdown. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regprentice Posted May 30, 2020 Share Posted May 30, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, scottbeard said: Lots of coffee shops are now - for takeaway Depends where you are. I'm in Scotland, I. Don't believe costa/Starbucks type shops are open here yet. Edited May 30, 2020 by regprentice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anonguest Posted May 30, 2020 Share Posted May 30, 2020 23 hours ago, MARTINX9 said: The scheme detail was changed between the Telegraph and Guardian etc last night and the announcement today. It was going to be a 20% employer contribution from 1 August last night out of the 80% - it is now nothing (bar NI) in August, 10% in September and only a move to 20% in October. Within hours it seemed Sunak and the government caved to make it more generous. Its only printed money they will never pay back anyway - the cost is mere detail! https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/may/28/rishi-sunak-to-taper-furlough-scheme-forcing-employers-to-pay-20-of-wages Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregBowman Posted May 30, 2020 Share Posted May 30, 2020 16 hours ago, reddog said: I think there are some stupid people out there that don't fully understand the seriousness of the situation. Personally I have found a new found love for my company. Brilliant - I have found a display of new found love for my clients - I think we are talking about the same thing ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregBowman Posted May 30, 2020 Share Posted May 30, 2020 7 hours ago, MARTINX9 said: Well it meant they could sell those collapsible reusable ones for £10 - instead of giving you a disposable cup costing 5p for free! They know their customers - who are very 'green'! I got my disposable cup from Poundland and its lasts longer. A bit off topic - but I do wonder how many fewer coffees were sold in April vs February? We had a load of those cups made but I think they aren’t very welcome any more ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted May 30, 2020 Share Posted May 30, 2020 17 hours ago, reddog said: I think there are some stupid people out there that don't fully understand the seriousness of the situation. Personally I have found a new found love for my company. The same section of dumb people who don't quite appreciate where we are now, are largely overlapping the section of people who completely failed to understand that we were in for a pandemic despite all the publicly available evidence since the start of January. And then completely freaked out in early March and thronged the shops looking for toilet paper and pasta. AFAIK if you are furloughed, then you can't do any work. (Essentially, it's as if you would otherwise have been laid off but the govt are going to support you by paying salary for you until things get a bit better on the grounds that if they keep loads of people 'not unemployed', the economy stands a better chance of springing back.) So I'm not sure why it should matter how you interact with your employer. Either things will look better when the scheme ends (you are back to work) or they won't (bye bye). Maybe there will be some wiggle room for a few people to remain in work, in which case brown-nosing now might pay off I suppose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregBowman Posted May 31, 2020 Share Posted May 31, 2020 (edited) 5 hours ago, Sour Mash said: The same section of dumb people who don't quite appreciate where we are now, are largely overlapping the section of people who completely failed to understand that we were in for a pandemic despite all the publicly available evidence since the start of January. And then completely freaked out in early March and thronged the shops looking for toilet paper and pasta. AFAIK if you are furloughed, then you can't do any work. (Essentially, it's as if you would otherwise have been laid off but the govt are going to support you by paying salary for you until things get a bit better on the grounds that if they keep loads of people 'not unemployed', the economy stands a better chance of springing back.) So I'm not sure why it should matter how you interact with your employer. Either things will look better when the scheme ends (you are back to work) or they won't (bye bye). Maybe there will be some wiggle room for a few people to remain in work, in which case brown-nosing now might pay off I suppose. Many small and medium employees are paying money on top of furlough my client has also ensured that everyone takes a pay cut furlough or not You can get involved in social, contact and training activities Its not brown nosing to expect a little bit of support in reverse and some un solicited offers of help in non revenue generating areas or just general engagement all its done is magnify how people think anyway The sense of entitlement is quite breath taking and frankly stupidity in not realising how that plays Most people don’t understand the mechanics of a business or the pysche of the board ( wilful ignorance really generally easy to work out ) Makes the cut and paste easy though . Edited May 31, 2020 by GregBowman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddog Posted May 31, 2020 Author Share Posted May 31, 2020 (edited) 8 hours ago, Sour Mash said: AFAIK if you are furloughed, then you can't do any work. (Essentially, it's as if you would otherwise have been laid off but the govt are going to support you by paying salary for you until things get a bit better on the grounds that if they keep loads of people 'not unemployed', the economy stands a better chance of springing back.) So I'm not sure why it should matter how you interact with your employer. I am not furloughed, but if I were, I would probably do some useful training (off my own bat so not breaking the furlough rules), and make sure the company I work for knows that I am doing the training, I would also volunteer to be one of the first to come back. I recon if you get unemployed now, you may be unemployed for a year or two (depending on skills and flexibility to relocate) RE: training, even if you job is to sweep the floor in a factory, you can still do training to make you more desirable for re-hiring after furlough (first aid course, health and safety course etc.) Edited May 31, 2020 by reddog Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2buyornot2buy Posted May 31, 2020 Share Posted May 31, 2020 (edited) 4 hours ago, GregBowman said: Many small and medium employees are paying money on top of furlough my client has also ensured that everyone takes a pay cut furlough or not You can get involved in social, contact and training activities Its not brown nosing to expect a little bit of support in reverse and some un solicited offers of help in non revenue generating areas or just general engagement all its done is magnify how people think anyway The sense of entitlement is quite breath taking and frankly stupidity in not realising how that plays Most people don’t understand the mechanics of a business or the pysche of the board ( wilful ignorance really generally easy to work out ) Makes the cut and paste easy though . I own a small company (<50 employees) furlough topup is costing me around 20k a month. I'm happy to pay it. At the end of the day, the reason I'm able to pay the top up is due to the collective effort over the previous 12 months. I'm not a fan of treating employees as commodities which in my experience puts me in the minority when I chat to some of my fellow directors. The sense of entitlement isn't confined to the bottom of the company. I've talked to many directors, "encouraging" employees to carry out activities which they shouldn't be doing under furlough. Edited May 31, 2020 by 2buyornot2buy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Now or never Posted May 31, 2020 Share Posted May 31, 2020 (edited) Doesn't matter how keen you are to get back, and no amount of expressing will change your predicament. I've furloughed 24 people, pulled back 8 over the past month as things have picked up; each one based on performance and skill sets. Both furloughed and retained staff have been requested not to make work related contact, unless business updates are being provided. Our sales team, 70 regional business developers, are down to 5 and will not exceed 35 when all this is over. Furlough has given the business a great opportunity to establish resource levels and restructure teams with the better (and less hassle) employees. You could argue long term it has had the reverse effect. Edited May 31, 2020 by Now or never Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warpig Posted May 31, 2020 Share Posted May 31, 2020 On 29/05/2020 at 17:25, reddog said: <Placeholder> Richi Sunak just announced employers will start having to contribute to the furlough scheme from August. My take is, so far employers have "been nice" allowing the tax payer to pick up the bill for employees that they had no intention of bringing back. As soon as their is any cost on the employers side, even if minor, I am sure a lot people will be getting the boot. I happen to know a small company had already made 40% of their employees redundant as Covid19 took hold and then promptly ripped up the paperwork once the furlough scheme was announced. When the scheme is scaled back, they will be made redundant again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regprentice Posted May 31, 2020 Share Posted May 31, 2020 8 hours ago, GregBowman said: Its not brown nosing to expect a little bit of support in reverse and some un solicited offers of help in non revenue generating areas or just general engagement all its done is magnify how people think anyway Finance is considered non revenue generating. Should I drop in once a week and do the payroll for nothing? One person's 'little but of support' or 'general engagement' is another persons bullying and coercion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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