Coronavirus - potential Black Swan?

[nightowl]

1 hour ago, Riedquat said:

Or "pathetic government stooge useful idiot sheep" if you broadly accept that Covid-19's a problem and have no problem at all with vaccination.

It can be seen absolutely everywhere though. A large majority of the population are banal black and white thinkers, unable to cope with a lack of certainty and only uncaring about anything other than having as easy a life as possible with a constant stream of distractions, utterly divorced and uninterested in the world around them.

Indeed. It might be called 'splitting' by psychologists I think where some people only see the world as good and bad, for and against, right or wrong, left or right and is a recognised mental condition behaviour if it leads to destructive behaviour.

Some of us live in the fuzzy grey area of real life decisions with patchy information better than others. 

[moonriver]

On 12/05/2021 at 21:18, Arpeggio said:

If C19 cases among those who are injected is now only those who die or are hospitalized (as per the CDC guidelines),....I feel sorry for these people. I see people that I know who are really nice pleasant people, but they have had the jab and it saddens me, I see a sort of Guinea Pig head on them in my mind.

 

I know what you mean, it makes me feel sad every time I hear someone who I am fond of announcing they have had the vaccine. (I have noticed most who've had it like to tell as many as possible that they have!).

I fear for what is to come for them with talk of cytokine storm etc. So it gives me no pleasure when eg. one of my friends just told me she already regrets having it. She tells me she can't see why she had it with cases so low already,  plus the doubt now that they won't even work with new variants.

Those who have chosen not to have it, can change their minds later on should they choose to, as more data comes in, but its too late for those who've had it already.

The unvaccinated are at least aware of the type of risk they have of becoming severly ill with covid, whereas the vaccinated have no ideal of where this will lead them long term now.

 

 

[Huggy]

4 minutes ago, moonriver said:

it makes me feel sad every time I hear someone who I am fond of announcing they have had the vaccine.

What about people you are not necessarily fond of?

I had mine this morning, went nice and quick and totally painless. I won't mention which one I had, @yelims might not be too happy, but I will provide a small clue below.

 

Happy to be both patriotic and socially conscious

 

Edited May 14, 2021 by Huggy

[Bruce Banner]

42 minutes ago, Huggy said:

What about people you are not necessarily fond of?

I had mine this morning, went nice and quick and totally painless. I won't mention which one I had, @yelims might not be too happy, but I will provide a small clue below.

Happy to be both patriotic and socially conscious

 

I thought you were in the age group for which the AZ vaccine was considered to be unsuitable.

[Huggy]

14 minutes ago, Bruce Banner said:

I thought you were in the age group for which the AZ vaccine was considered to be unsuitable.

No, I'm a few years above now, early 40s so I'm cool they stuck me with that one. Would've been a bit more worried if I was younger and the numbers were showing the dangers of the vaccine exceeded the benefits of the jab. Although, as I understand it, it's fractions of a % danger of either so not that worried really.

Edited May 14, 2021 by Huggy

[nightowl]

1 hour ago, moonriver said:

I know what you mean, it makes me feel sad every time I hear someone who I am fond of announcing they have had the vaccine. (I have noticed most who've had it like to tell as many as possible that they have!).

I fear for what is to come for them with talk of cytokine storm etc. So it gives me no pleasure when eg. one of my friends just told me she already regrets having it. She tells me she can't see why she had it with cases so low already,  plus the doubt now that they won't even work with new variants.

Those who have chosen not to have it, can change their minds later on should they choose to, as more data comes in, but its too late for those who've had it already.

The unvaccinated are at least aware of the type of risk they have of becoming severly ill with covid, whereas the vaccinated have no ideal of where this will lead them long term now.

I have always maintained its a personal choice, but saddened by the official information coming out is politically skewed making informed decisions harder, no option on make of vaccine offered given their differences, and people moralising at others what they should do - Which is far more so on the vaxxed side right now I noticed. 

[Ah-so]

2 hours ago, Riedquat said:

Well just posting a link never gets you anywhere, posts need to stand on their own merit, links are references for "I've not just made this up myself" or "for further information."

Expressing a position will get a response that'll depend on what it is; ideally it should be judged on its own merits. And there'll inevitably be some who disagree, and since HPC isn't a happy-clappy "no arguing please, let's all be nice and pretend differences of opinion don't exist!" place (thank heavens) that's also got its fair share of one extreme or the other thinkers then you're bound to get that. If someone finds what you're saying lies in too much towards the batsh1t side they'll say so.

Anyway you didn't mention the dimwits who resort to "you're confused" if you don't pick one rigid opinion and apply it blindly and unwaveringly in all circumstances and situations.

Well put

[Arpeggio]

2 hours ago, moonriver said:

I know what you mean, it makes me feel sad every time I hear someone who I am fond of announcing they have had the vaccine. (I have noticed most who've had it like to tell as many as possible that they have!).

To some, maybe being injected to be genetically engineered seems like getting the latest shiny new model of car. As though a reason others are cautious seems to be their reason to go for it.

2 hours ago, moonriver said:

I fear for what is to come for them with talk of cytokine storm etc. So it gives me no pleasure when eg. one of my friends just told me she already regrets having it. She tells me she can't see why she had it with cases so low already,  plus the doubt now that they won't even work with new variants.

Yes. The cytokine storm issue was just the first concern before the injections came out. There is already documented research on flu jabs making Corona worse "Vaccine derived virus interference was significantly associated with coronavirus"

I was warning some in Oct / Nov 2020. Since the lockdown from Nov 2020 much has happened, from vaccines being stopped in multiple countries, deaths on ADR databases 1000s% higher than all Flu jabs combined etc. and recent papers being released about Spike protein damaging endothelial cells of the vascular system, binding to ACE2 mitochondria organelles that generate energy for cells (lethargy?), natural immunity being T cell immunity while the Spike protein does not induce and a former common cold OC43 offering more benefits of resilience over the disadvantages of being obese or old.

Worse Than the Disease? Reviewing Some Possible Unintended Consequences of the mRNA Vaccines Against COVID-19

The next thing is the shedding issue, which I am sceptical of. Will see.

2 hours ago, moonriver said:

Those who have chosen not to have it, can change their minds later on should they choose to, as more data comes in, but its too late for those who've had it already.

Exactly. That's a fundamental difference with these vaccines. The standard types introduced foreign matter for the body to deal with, whereas these ones make your own body produce SARS-CoV-2 spike protein, which alone is enough to change baseline gene expression in airway cells according to scientists who don't seem to have quite twigged on to what this is all about yet.

2 hours ago, moonriver said:

The unvaccinated are at least aware of the type of risk they have of becoming severly ill with covid, whereas the vaccinated have no ideal of where this will lead them long term now.

True. It's even better when you consider that if you are in an age group for whom 0.02% would die, that doesn't mean you've got a 0.02% chance of dying if that 0.02% had something in particular about them, which made them more likely to die.

Edited May 14, 2021 by Arpeggio

[Arpeggio]

2 hours ago, Huggy said:

What about people you are not necessarily fond of?

I had mine this morning, went nice and quick and totally painless. I won't mention which one I had, @yelims might not be too happy, but I will provide a small clue below.

 

Happy to be both patriotic and socially conscious

 

 

 

[Arpeggio]

Bill Maher’s HBO talk show was forced to stop filming after the fully vaccinated presenter tested positive for coronavirus.

Oh well. Wonder if it was the 28 cycle PCR?

“Bill tested positive during weekly staff PCR testing for Covid. He is fully vaccinated and as a result is asymptomatic and feels fine,” the statement read."

A bit like what happens so often before a vaccine as well then. Of course soon will come those who'll say "Yes but he wasn't hospitalized and didn't die so the vaccine clearly worked". as if you could possibly know that would have happened otherwise, which already didn't for millions more, before vaccine, than it did not.

...and don't forget PCR tests work to find a virus! don't listen to the Nobel Prize winning inventor of PCR technology.

Edited May 14, 2021 by Arpeggio

[Arpeggio]

2 hours ago, Huggy said:

No, I'm a few years above now, early 40s so I'm cool they stuck me with that one. Would've been a bit more worried if I was younger and the numbers were showing the dangers of the vaccine exceeded the benefits of the jab. Although, as I understand it, it's fractions of a % danger of either so not that worried really.

Good Boy Skippy! Now just semi-lockdown / lockdown again for the Indian variant until the next vaccine, then you are sort of free(ish)! until the next strain, restrictions & vaccine.

Four Brits dead from Indian variant as experts (and Dominic Cummings) tell Boris to hit the brakes: PM and Chris Whitty will hold press conference at 5pm amid calls to keep England OUT of pubs and delay Monday's unlocking as Covid strain surges

On 03/05/2021 at 08:16, markyh said:

Yes, AZ. what's the latest nutjob theory's?

You mean like in 2020 when I said this was intended to go on forever? How about that you might not be going to the pub as early as you had hoped for and may need another vaccine for the Indian strain?

Edited May 14, 2021 by Arpeggio

[Huggy]

2 minutes ago, Arpeggio said:

Good Boy Skippy!

It's Skipper or Sir. There will be no familiarity shown in my thread thank you!

2 minutes ago, Arpeggio said:

Four Brits dead from Indian variant as experts (and Dominic Cummings) tell Boris to hit the brakes: PM and Chris Whitty will hold press conference at 5pm amid calls to keep England OUT of pubs and delay Monday's unlocking as Covid strain surges

We'll come out of lockdown, people will become vaccinated, variants may need more vaccinations, and we may have to go into lockdown again. It'll be the same old circle of effects across the globe until it isn't, and then we'll be fine.

Every lockdown means more time WFH, happy days Less happy is less time at the pub (quite sad about this now actually, my alcoholism is being kept sated by back breaking deliveries from local and non-local breweries, distilleries, and from this weekend: Meaderies, but I'm not in tears just yet)

[Mikhail Liebenstein]

Last minute zinc injections don't work:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9578517/Covid-patient-raped-male-nurse-Indian-hospital-dies-hours-later.html

 

 

[Arpeggio]

9 minutes ago, Huggy said:

It's Skipper or Sir. There will be no familiarity shown in my thread thank you!

We'll come out of lockdown, people will become vaccinated, variants may need more vaccinations, and we may have to go into lockdown again. It'll be the same old circle of effects across the globe until it isn't, and then we'll be fine.

Every lockdown means more time WFH, happy days Less happy is less time at the pub (quite sad about this now actually, my alcoholism is being kept sated by back breaking deliveries from local and non-local breweries, distilleries, and from this weekend: Meaderies, but I'm not in tears just yet)

But, you could be free forever and work from home at the same time.

 

7 minutes ago, Mikhail Liebenstein said:

Last minute zinc injections don't work:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9578517/Covid-patient-raped-male-nurse-Indian-hospital-dies-hours-later.html

Mainstream lies manipulating the figures once again. They deliberately chose not to use a horse in order to make the dose too low to be effective.

Edited May 14, 2021 by Arpeggio

[Ah-so]

1 hour ago, Arpeggio said:

To some, maybe being injected to be genetically engineered seems like getting the latest shiny new model of car. As though a reason others are cautious seems to be their reason to go for it.

 

Nice article. But it isn't you that is being genetically engineered. 

To quote from the article:

'So, we’re doing the deep reveal on exactly how genetics and biotechnology have been a central component of the vaccine effort. Because we know the conspiracists don’t care about evidence, anyway.

To get your head around this you need to understand what mRNA is for. Basically, it’s a single-stranded nucleic acid molecule that carries a genetic sequence from the DNA in the cell’s nucleus into the protein factories — called ribosomes — that sit outside the nucleus in the cellular cytoplasm.

That’s what the “m” in mRNA stands for: messenger. Messenger RNA just carries instructions for the assembly of proteins from the DNA template to the ribosomes 

It’s not hugely different from how traditional vaccines work. But instead of injecting a weakened live or killed virus, the mRNA approach trains your immune system directly with a single protein.

Contrary to assertions made by opponents, it won’t turn you or anyone else into a GMO.'

You've put its minds at rest. 

 

. 

[erat_forte]

24 minutes ago, Ah-so said:

Nice article. But it isn't you that is being genetically engineered. 

To quote from the article:

'So, we’re doing the deep reveal on exactly how genetics and biotechnology have been a central component of the vaccine effort. Because we know the conspiracists don’t care about evidence, anyway.

To get your head around this you need to understand what mRNA is for. Basically, it’s a single-stranded nucleic acid molecule that carries a genetic sequence from the DNA in the cell’s nucleus into the protein factories — called ribosomes — that sit outside the nucleus in the cellular cytoplasm.

That’s what the “m” in mRNA stands for: messenger. Messenger RNA just carries instructions for the assembly of proteins from the DNA template to the ribosomes 

It’s not hugely different from how traditional vaccines work. But instead of injecting a weakened live or killed virus, the mRNA approach trains your immune system directly with a single protein.

Contrary to assertions made by opponents, it won’t turn you or anyone else into a GMO.'

You've put its minds at rest. 

 

. 

Typical, so-called "experts" spreading confusing technical stuff trying to bamboozle people with science. We're smarter than that. Now if you don't mind I need to shut my computer for a few hours because I can feel the 5G radiation making my mutant cells tingle. I'll be back online later once I've had a little lie down.

[markyh]

1 hour ago, Arpeggio said:

Good Boy Skippy! Now just semi-lockdown / lockdown again for the Indian variant until the next vaccine, then you are sort of free(ish)! until the next strain, restrictions & vaccine.

Four Brits dead from Indian variant as experts (and Dominic Cummings) tell Boris to hit the brakes: PM and Chris Whitty will hold press conference at 5pm amid calls to keep England OUT of pubs and delay Monday's unlocking as Covid strain surges

You mean like in 2020 when I said this was intended to go on forever? How about that you might not be going to the pub as early as you had hoped for and may need another vaccine for the Indian strain?

Won’t happen. No evidence the indian variant is causing hospitals to be overwhelmed or a huge number of deaths. 90% of new Indian variant deaths will be from unvaccinated oldies, who wear tin foil hats. They made their choice, now they need to be let to die. Good. Won’t be a loss. 
 

This will just burn through us quickly now with less deaths than the average flu season. All done by Xmas, no lockdown needed. 

[winkie]

 

[Arpeggio]

Well, you might not provide any links but at least you can quote from a marketing article designed to fool people who can't be bothered to look any deeper, that someone else linked to.

1 hour ago, Ah-so said:

Nice article. But it isn't you that is being genetically engineered.

So as the article says, it's an injection that uses genetic engineering but this is not being genetically engineered. Important distinction there!

1 hour ago, Ah-so said:

'So, we’re doing the deep reveal on exactly how genetics and biotechnology have been a central component of the vaccine effort. Because we know the conspiracists don’t care about evidence, anyway.

Just as well they aren't talking about you then, they wouldn't have to lie about that.

1 hour ago, Ah-so said:

To get your head around this you need to understand what mRNA is for. Basically, it’s a single-stranded nucleic acid molecule that carries a genetic sequence from the DNA in the cell’s nucleus into the protein factories — called ribosomes — that sit outside the nucleus in the cellular cytoplasm.

That’s what the “m” in mRNA stands for: messenger. Messenger RNA just carries instructions for the assembly of proteins from the DNA template to the ribosomes

I already know that normally mRNA comes from the Nucleus DNA and that these injections insert synthetic mRNA into the cytoplasm from the outside. That's why I already said it. "mRNA just carries instructions"  does not normalize this.

1 hour ago, Ah-so said:

It’s not hugely different from how traditional vaccines work. But instead of injecting a weakened live or killed virus, the mRNA approach trains your immune system directly with a single protein.

....by making your own body create viral proteins, by genetically encoding an unknown amount of, and any number of 28 out of 55 cells types with 50 billion parts of artificial mRNA injected from the outside.

This is very different, stop repeating bullsh*t. You can't even provide your own references, and think to take something I linked to as though I saw much credibility in it other than the admittance in the title of "Yes, some COVID vaccines use genetic engineering. Get over it"?

 

1 hour ago, Ah-so said:

Contrary to assertions made by opponents, it won’t turn you or anyone else into a GMO.'

You've put its minds at rest.

There is still uncertainty as to whether it integrates into the genome: https://sciencewithdrdoug.com/2021/02/15/breaking-study-sheds-more-light-on-whether-an-rna-vaccine-can-permanently-alter-dna/

"Recent studies have shown that replication-incompetent adenoviral vectors randomly integrate into host chromosomes at frequencies of 0.001-1% of infected cells." https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12109211/

“We found that exposure to the SARS-CoV-2 spike protein alone was enough to change baseline gene expression in airway cells” ....and the difference with the Spike protein that the vaccine produces is?

Edited May 14, 2021 by Arpeggio

[nightowl]

1 hour ago, Huggy said:

then we'll be fine.

Every lockdown means more time WFH, happy days

Don't forget many can't WFH or indeed work at all (especially if furlough ends) so won't be so happy as you. 

Going in and out of endless lockdowns and endless vaxing sounds very destructive though, and may not be "fine" for many.

2 hours ago, Arpeggio said:

Bill Maher’s HBO talk show was forced to stop filming after the fully vaccinated presenter tested positive for coronavirus.

Oh well. Wonder if it was the 28 cycle PCR?

“Bill tested positive during weekly staff PCR testing for Covid. He is fully vaccinated and as a result is asymptomatic and feels fine,” the statement read."

A bit like what happens so often before a vaccine as well then. Of course soon will come those who'll say "Yes but he wasn't hospitalized and didn't die so the vaccine clearly worked". as if you could possibly know that would have happened otherwise, which already didn't for millions more, before vaccine, than it did not.

...and don't forget PCR tests work to find a virus! don't listen to the Nobel Prize winning inventor of PCR technology.

I haven't watched that video (yet) but a limitation of PCRs is it can't discriminate between active infections virus being ejected by via the body's airways or dead virus from an historic infection apparently so doesn't automatically mean that person is a risk.

[Arpeggio]

1 hour ago, markyh said:

Won’t happen. No evidence the indian variant is causing hospitals to be overwhelmed or a huge number of deaths. 90% of new Indian variant deaths will be from unvaccinated oldies, who wear tin foil hats. They made their choice, now they need to be let to die. Good. Won’t be a loss. 

This will just burn through us quickly now with less deaths than the average flu season. All done by Xmas, no lockdown needed. 

https://www.pnas.org/content/118/16/e2024850118

"a total of 4.41 M years of life lost to COVID-19 in 2020, only a third of the 13.02 million life years lost to excess mortality in the United States in 2017"

Holy sh*t, let's crank the alarm and lockdown for 2017. Bravo for having your injection(s) markyh! Yeh let all the stupid unvaccinated die of something that definitely exists and can be quantified but still hasn't been put to Koche's postulates.

VAERS (mostly US) COVID19 vaccines: 215885 Adverse Events, 4168 Deaths, 2623 Permanent Disability.

https://imoparty.com/Adverse-Events-Under-Reported

2 hours ago, Ah-so said:

Because we know the conspiracists don’t care about evidence, anyway.

Just thought I'd quote that again for a laugh. The irony of someone who never references anything quoting from something that someone else actually posted.

Edited May 14, 2021 by Arpeggio

[Mikhail Liebenstein]

Government to send Billions an@l Ventilators

Mammals can use their INTESTINES to breathe: Scientists show rats and pigs can survive on oxygen fed through their rectum - and it could work on humans too.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-9578901/Breathing-Rats-pigs-survive-oxygen-fed-RECTUM-study-finds.html

 

Edited May 14, 2021 by Mikhail Liebenstein

[Ah-so]

36 minutes ago, Arpeggio said:

 

Just thought I'd quote that again for a laugh. The irony of someone who never references anything quoting from something that someone else actually posted.

Hardly. I do provide references where appropriate, but it is not me that seeks to overturn established science. And I'm not trying to turn myself into an armchair medical redearcher.  And I suspect you get all your links off of some bullsh1t conspiracy site you follow anyway. I leave that sort of thing to the semi-educated conspiracy theorists who time and time again make themselves look silly. I say semi-educated, if double science GCSE counts as that. 

And time and time again, the links that you do post are either utter nonsense or of insufficient weight. 

But while it was just a bit of fun on the Presidential election thread, where you provided the entertainment with your bizarre QAnon theories, on here you can do real damage as an anti-vaxxer, so you need to be called out, either through rigorous argument or ridicule. 

Anyway, I won't detain you longer because you are probably searching through Twitter to find the latest link that apparently undermines the science of PCR testing. 

Edited May 14, 2021 by Ah-so

[markyh]

28 minutes ago, Arpeggio said:

https://www.pnas.org/content/118/16/e2024850118

"a total of 4.41 M years of life lost to COVID-19 in 2020, only a third of the 13.02 million life years lost to excess mortality in the United States in 2017"

Holy sh*t, let's crank the alarm and lockdown for 2017. Bravo for having your injection(s) markyh! Yeh let all the stupid unvaccinated die of something that definitely exists and can be quantified but still hasn't been put to Koche's postulates.

VAERS (mostly US) COVID19 vaccines: 215885 Adverse Events, 4168 Deaths, 2623 Permanent Disability.

https://imoparty.com/Adverse-Events-Under-Reported

Just thought I'd quote that again for a laugh. The irony of someone who never references anything quoting from something that someone else actually posted.

.Great. As i said, PM agrees with me, no changes, all down the pub from monday, nom evidence the Inidian Varient does jack shit to the young a those vaccinated, no ones getting sick. 

If there is no virus, you have no worries do you, come join us, has a nice pint in a cosy crowded pub.

Unfortunatley for you, the world is run by people like me, for us, white males, 18-55 , everyone else are just our cucks in life and you be  a good boy and bend over and take whatever we want to rodger you with because we are in control. 

Post what you like, your just a keyboard warrrior tin foil hat wearing idiot, scared of his own shadow. 

Me , i'm off to have fun next week, back to 90% of 2019. Happy Days. 

[Arpeggio]

34 minutes ago, Ah-so said:

Hardly. I do provide references where appropriate, but it is not me that seeks to overturn established science.

Almost never. If you have a problem with my links to places like MIT, Harvard and many more but see that as an attempt to "overturn established science" then perhaps you should go and do some surgery after picking your nose and scratching your butt crack.

34 minutes ago, Ah-so said:

And time and time again, the links that you do post are either utter nonsense or of insufficient weight.

Said someone who offers nothing but thinks they can determine what links are or aren't nonsense.

34 minutes ago, Ah-so said:

But while it was just a bit of fun on the Presidential election thread, where you provided the entertainment with your bizarre QAnon theories, on here you can do real damage as an anti-vaxxer

The usual attempt to drag in another subject. 

34 minutes ago, Ah-so said:

so you need to be called out, either through rigorous argument or ridicule.

How's that then? by repeating yourself with "that's nonsense, you are nonsense, nonsense!" ? Ridicule? well, that's not actually argument but it seem that to you, you think it makes your non-argument better.

34 minutes ago, Ah-so said:

Anyway, I won't detain you longer because you are probably searching through Twitter to find the latest link that apparently undermines the science of PCR testing. 

Kary Mulis' statement and Zugzwangs rampant lies about 50 cycles will do among other things. This twitter "insult" seems to be a formula for you.

35 minutes ago, Mikhail Liebenstein said:

Government to send Billions an@l Ventilators

Mammals can use their INTESTINES to breathe: Scientists show rats and pigs can survive on oxygen fed through their rectum - and it could work on humans too.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-9578901/Breathing-Rats-pigs-survive-oxygen-fed-RECTUM-study-finds.html

Wonder if this might have implications for mouth to mouth resuscitation techniques?

Edited May 14, 2021 by Arpeggio