Will! Posted July 30, 2021 Share Posted July 30, 2021 10 hours ago, Bruce Banner said: So we are in agreement that, for some, an extended nanny state with powers to make decisions on our medical treatment would be a fate worse than death? If it makes you feel any better. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mental_Capacity_Act_2005 https://www.lawcom.gov.uk/project/mental-incapacity/ https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/mental-capacity-act-code-of-practice A huge amount of medical ethical and legal work goes into avoiding what you describe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Banner Posted July 30, 2021 Share Posted July 30, 2021 2 minutes ago, Will! said: If it makes you feel any better. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mental_Capacity_Act_2005 https://www.lawcom.gov.uk/project/mental-incapacity/ https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/mental-capacity-act-code-of-practice A huge amount of medical ethical and legal work goes into avoiding what you describe. I know that, but there's a lot of talk about it these days and authoritarians must be resisted at all cost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpeggio Posted July 30, 2021 Share Posted July 30, 2021 (edited) 11 hours ago, yelims said: If they have private healthcare then they can pay for it, but I don’t see why society should pay for those who put said society at risk and then expect free healthcare I would have no problem with forfeiting treatment for C19 except for the fact that Any stress on the body provokes us to make more antibodies and have more degraded genetic material in our blood and other fluids. This will give you a positive PCR test. Fury over 'misleading' Covid hospital figures as it's revealed half of patients only test positive AFTER admission for another illness — but NHS bosses say they're 'as busy now as they were in January' The package inserts for PCR (and antibody) tests for coronavirus says that you may have a false positive if a person has one of about 40 conditions, such as strep throat, “viral infections” (other), autoimmune disease, cancer, pregnancy, or nursing. If you cycle higher at 45 you'll get positive even if your are healthy. This, and the above principals used are set for this to go on forever. Edited July 30, 2021 by Arpeggio Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonsieurCopperCrutch Posted July 30, 2021 Share Posted July 30, 2021 1 hour ago, Chunketh said: We should introduce a “I don’t want it” tin foil hat brigade badge. Then refuse oxygen to them. This dumb ass tinfoil hattery needs to **** off. Yes, ithe vaccine has a risk. ALL do. Do you take aspirin? Same clot chance Yes, your chances of dying of COVID are higher than taking the vaccine Yes, you are stupid Bravo Sir. Bravo. 👏 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonsieurCopperCrutch Posted July 30, 2021 Share Posted July 30, 2021 1 hour ago, Chunketh said: /cheer its something the unwashed deniers forget about. Along with MRNA “altering” your DNA….which its doesn’t But but but MRNA must alter DNA as they both have the scientific letter NA in them. 🤣🤣🤣🤣 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonsieurCopperCrutch Posted July 30, 2021 Share Posted July 30, 2021 1 hour ago, Bruce Banner said: "Left at home"? Surely that's a matter of personal choice. Over the course my working life I've been pretty damn sick but always managed to drag myself into work. Bravo Sir. 👏 Now the question is have you lived through everybody’s illnesses? 🤔 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Banner Posted July 30, 2021 Share Posted July 30, 2021 So many authoritarian fan boys who think they know what's best for you and make it their job to tell you what to do . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpeggio Posted July 30, 2021 Share Posted July 30, 2021 4 minutes ago, MonsieurCopperCrutch said: But but but MRNA must alter DNA as they both have the scientific letter NA in them. 🤣🤣🤣🤣 I see you've done your research here. Under ordinary circumstances, the body makes mRNA from the DNA in a cell’s nucleus. The mRNA then travels out of the nucleus into the cytoplasm, where it provides instructions about which proteins to make. mRNA vaccines send synthesized mRNA with spike protein-manufacturing instructions directly into the cytoplasm, from the outside. The CDC argument is mRNA never enters the nucleus of the cell, which is where our DNA (genetic material) is kept. The cell breaks down and gets rid of the mRNA soon after it is finished using the instructions. It is well known that RNA can be reverse transcribed into DNA. Our cells have reverse transcriptase enzymes, which convert RNA into DNA. https://www.aaas.org/reverse-transcriptase-paradigm-busting-enzyme Either the CDC are in central dogma or are lacking further detail as to why reverse transcriptase wont happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riedquat Posted July 30, 2021 Share Posted July 30, 2021 2 hours ago, Will! said: I'm not sure. I'm a big fan of transparency, but as you suggest data without context isn't worth much and the media have always loved hyperbole. It used to sell papers and now it brings in hits, hence the @Riedquatian criticism of world views of everything as brilliant / terrible. I'd like to think that "Riedquatian" is now an adjective, just wish I hadn't run out of inspiration and picked a planet from an old computer game as being handy for a username Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nightowl Posted July 30, 2021 Share Posted July 30, 2021 3 hours ago, Will! said: @Riedquat The data are useful for rebutting @nightowl's lies that hospitals weren't busy in January Time to make good on that statement and provide evidence I said such a thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will! Posted July 30, 2021 Share Posted July 30, 2021 15 minutes ago, nightowl said: Time to make good on that statement and provide evidence I said such a thing. So easily done. On 20/06/2021 at 20:08, nightowl said: To understand covid policy right now you dont need to be a mathematician but a political psychologist anyway. Better prepared maybe and not caught flat footed? That said, there were plenty of media reports of over loaded hospitals in January 2021, although digging a little reveals these were artifacts of the usual media hype. On 10/07/2021 at 12:22, nightowl said: As opposed to the fear of predictions/scenarios made by SPIm/sage that never came true. 😏 Over 4,000 Covid patients in UK critical care units in January. I posted about it at the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will! Posted July 30, 2021 Share Posted July 30, 2021 1 hour ago, Riedquat said: I'd like to think that "Riedquatian" is now an adjective, just wish I hadn't run out of inspiration and picked a planet from an old computer game as being handy for a username Congratulations, you're an HPC meme! Let's see if it outlasts waiting for the HPC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpeggio Posted July 30, 2021 Share Posted July 30, 2021 50 minutes ago, Chunketh said: You have been predicting a “wave” of death from MRNA for as long as I can remember, let me be plain STOP PEDDLING YOUR HORSESHIT HERE, YOU AND YOUR MISINFORMED ******WITTED ILK ARE COSTING LIVES In short, ****** off twit There's no real substance to this rant, but despite your erratic capslock style as though you can be taken seriously, I will prevent you from misleading anyone. First of all. If you actually bothered to read my posts you would know that I have said the main brunt of that would be winter 2021, as I have said on more than one occasion. Right now, for the following ⬇️, we have virtually everything noticeably at its highest since July 2020 and most higher than the prior winter peak. https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1006439/NASS_Bulletin_2021_29.pdf Document is interesting. Everything above baseline, while as I noticed a few weeks ago the baselines have been "remodelled". This one suddenly shot up even more. Previously, on Feb 5th 2021 I predicted that C19 deaths would go up on March. Here is that post, about halfway down it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikhail Liebenstein Posted July 31, 2021 Share Posted July 31, 2021 3 hours ago, Arpeggio said: I would have no problem with forfeiting treatment for C19 except for the fact that Any stress on the body provokes us to make more antibodies and have more degraded genetic material in our blood and other fluids. This will give you a positive PCR test. Fury over 'misleading' Covid hospital figures as it's revealed half of patients only test positive AFTER admission for another illness — but NHS bosses say they're 'as busy now as they were in January' The package inserts for PCR (and antibody) tests for coronavirus says that you may have a false positive if a person has one of about 40 conditions, such as strep throat, “viral infections” (other), autoimmune disease, cancer, pregnancy, or nursing. If you cycle higher at 45 you'll get positive even if your are healthy. This, and the above principals used are set for this to go on forever. Yes, positive for being a middle aged twit/man in Lycra (MAMIL). Much prefer oarsmen to cyclists. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quicken Posted July 31, 2021 Share Posted July 31, 2021 https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/rna-vaccines-against-covid-19-will-not-permanently-alter-your-dna/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob8 Posted July 31, 2021 Share Posted July 31, 2021 8 hours ago, Arpeggio said: I see you've done your research here. .... "Looking things up". It is very nice of you to be so generous, but looking things up and doing research is very different. You look things up, you have done no research. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nightowl Posted July 31, 2021 Share Posted July 31, 2021 (edited) 7 hours ago, Will! said: So easily done. Over 4,000 Covid patients in UK critical care units in January. I posted about it at the time. How many people were loading the NHS in previous Januarys? Don't you remember in previous year non urgent treatments being cancelled in winter due to overloading? Jan 2021 had I higher than recent average mortality rate, but not historically high. Edited July 31, 2021 by nightowl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captainb Posted July 31, 2021 Share Posted July 31, 2021 (edited) 8 hours ago, Chunketh said: You have been predicting a “wave” of death from MRNA for as long as I can remember, let me be plain STOP PEDDLING YOUR HORSESHIT HERE, YOU AND YOUR MISINFORMED ******WITTED ILK ARE COSTING LIVES In short, ****** off twit If he annoys that much just add to the ignore list. Classic pigeon chess player. The only interesting element is what happens once that doesn't happen.. what new mad hat conspiracy nonsense will be jumped on as fact. Vaccines was dully predictable post trump next, might be more interesting... Charles being a lizard man? As a republican id find that vaugely amusing. Edited July 31, 2021 by captainb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chunketh Posted July 31, 2021 Share Posted July 31, 2021 17 minutes ago, captainb said: If he annoys that much just add to the ignore list. Classic pigeon chess player. The only interesting element is what happens once that doesn't happen.. what new mad hat conspiracy nonsense will be jumped on as fact. Vaccines was dully predictable post trump next, might be more interesting... Charles being a lizard man? As a republican id find that vaugely amusing. I made the mistake of taking him off ignore. Now he posts a series of screenies showing cumulative vaccine rollout and cumulative deaths and somehow implying that they are related. correlation!=causality and in this case both rising is what you would expect. People don’t suddenly become not dead or not vaccinated. He is back on ignore Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captainb Posted July 31, 2021 Share Posted July 31, 2021 6 minutes ago, Chunketh said: I made the mistake of taking him off ignore. Now he posts a series of screenies showing cumulative vaccine rollout and cumulative deaths and somehow implying that they are related. correlation!=causality and in this case both rising is what you would expect. People don’t suddenly become not dead or not vaccinated. He is back on ignore It's not just that.. it's the cutting of the timeframes. Ever wonder why he cuts Hungary at April.. take a look yourself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chunketh Posted July 31, 2021 Share Posted July 31, 2021 (edited) 8 minutes ago, captainb said: It's not just that.. it's the cutting of the timeframes. Ever wonder why he cuts Hungary at April.. take a look yourself. You have to wonder why, its almost looking like the vaccine….works? Edited July 31, 2021 by Chunketh Clarity Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captainb Posted July 31, 2021 Share Posted July 31, 2021 3 minutes ago, Chunketh said: You have to wonder why, its almost looking like the vaccine….works? Quite. You can't condemn people who get forward looking predictions wrong based on what's known, although you can challenge their assertions and track record. The difference here is deliberate miss representation of prior data to make a point that doesn't exist. Classic bad faith actor which given what's at stake is pretty odious. Unlike the trump claptrap which was just stupid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chunketh Posted July 31, 2021 Share Posted July 31, 2021 Just now, captainb said: Quite. You can't condemn people who get forward looking predictions wrong based on what's known, although you can challenge their assertions and track record. The difference here is deliberate miss representation of prior data to make a point that doesn't exist. Classic bad faith actor which given what's at stake is pretty odious. Unlike the trump claptrap which was just stupid. I missed the obvious heatwave deaths in the UK as well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anonguest Posted July 31, 2021 Share Posted July 31, 2021 (edited) 53 minutes ago, Chunketh said: You have to wonder why, its almost looking like the vaccine….works? EXCEPT THAT......he compared a graph of Covid DEATHS with vaccine rollout and you are showing graph of Covid CASES. BUT your point and criticism (re: cut off dates selected, etc) is still correct/valid Edited July 31, 2021 by anonguest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chunketh Posted July 31, 2021 Share Posted July 31, 2021 12 minutes ago, anonguest said: EXCEPT THAT......he compared a graph of Covid DEATHS with vaccine rollout and you are showing graph of Covid CASES. BUT your point and criticism (re: cut off dates selected, etc) is still correct/valid Oh yeah…..sorry about that, fixed here…same picture Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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