UK sets out a plan to become the world leader in electric vehicles

[dougless]

27 minutes ago, Sour Mash said:

Yup - it's just an excuse to really whack the tax on hydrocarbon fuelled vehicles and fuel, especially diesels which up until recently were being promoted as the 'eco-friendly' option.

Then whenever electrics start to hit critical mass they'll switch to a 'per mile' system for road tax so as to get their cut from EV owners too.   The GPS tracking will be handy to keep tabs on the movements of the population too.

 

Whatever our views on electric vehicles and the infrastructure needed to make them viable (and I do like the idea of electric vehicles being used a a giant national storage battery), the one thing that we will all agree on is that the Government have really lost the trust of the populace this time. They didn't hesitate to change the way vehicles were taxed when it suited them just as they changed the rules on State Pensions when it looked a bit challenging.  I doubt they have learn't from Brexit which was a warning shot - we really don't believe our politicians anymore.

[maverick73]

Another good intentioned policy.... to cover bad news.

[oracle]

3 hours ago, dougless said:

Whatever our views on electric vehicles and the infrastructure needed to make them viable (and I do like the idea of electric vehicles being used a a giant national storage battery), the one thing that we will all agree on is that the Government have really lost the trust of the populace this time. They didn't hesitate to change the way vehicles were taxed when it suited them just as they changed the rules on State Pensions when it looked a bit challenging.  I doubt they have learn't from Brexit which was a warning shot - we really don't believe our politicians anymore.

I agree.They really haven't got it yet have they?

they are blissfully unaware they are at the cusp of a historic cycle that brought us magna carta,the bill of rights, along with removal/humbling/execution of "establishment" of the day.

regular as clockwork every 360 years!!!!.....and they are right on top of it!!.....should have listened!

[mattyboy1973]

4 hours ago, Sour Mash said:

Yup - it's just an excuse to really whack the tax on hydrocarbon fuelled vehicles and fuel, especially diesels which up until recently were being promoted as the 'eco-friendly' option.

Then whenever electrics start to hit critical mass they'll switch to a 'per mile' system for road tax so as to get their cut from EV owners too.   The GPS tracking will be handy to keep tabs on the movements of the population too.

 

Yes, probably, but this is just an example of taxation being used to incentivise certain behaviours, which is a perfectly legitimate and has plenty of precedents. They'll try and move us over to EVs this way and then, ultimately, they'll need to raise the tax revenue that they lose (from fuel sales) by doing this. A per-mile system seems the fairest and most consistent with the current fuel taxes.

[Maynardgravy]

Can't wait for my taxes to buy a new fleet of EVs every three years for anyone with slight depression or too fat to walk.

[malk]

 

7 hours ago, ABZ_RVK said:

Does that mean there will be several charging wires dangling from each lamp-post to the near by EV cars? 

Have all the sockets in your house got cables dangling out of them waiting for something to be plugged in?

You have a cable in your car and you plug it in when required. It doesn't matter if there is space for 4-5 cars between each lamppost as you don't have to fill up your car every time you stop. Most current generation cars get 100+ miles a charge so you don't need to top up every day as few people, particularly those in urban apartments, drive that much.

We're not that far away, hopefully anyway, from next generation batteries which will increase range drastically. One example, solid state batteries, could be a game changer https://www.wired.co.uk/article/what-is-solid-state-battery-toyota-dyson.

5 hours ago, Sour Mash said:

Yup - it's just an excuse to really whack the tax on hydrocarbon fuelled vehicles and fuel, especially diesels which up until recently were being promoted as the 'eco-friendly' option.

Then whenever electrics start to hit critical mass they'll switch to a 'per mile' system for road tax so as to get their cut from EV owners too.   The GPS tracking will be handy to keep tabs on the movements of the population too.

 

Good! The health benefits of getting rid of local emissions, particularly diesel particulates, will be massive. On taxation, if more people realised that tax destroys money (as well as giving worth to the currency) then we wouldn't have to worry about them switching tax over to electrics. Tax to control inflation and charge negative externalities? Cool. Let's push for that rather than worrying about paying it per se.

More generally on how we'll pay for all of this? With the pounds that only the UK government can create. We should be leveraging the university sector to research this tech and then making sure we have the real resources to build the infrastructure. The funding is a cannard.

[miguel]

Go over to U-tube and watch Kryten for everything EV. 

[Ballyk]

Massive increase in electricity demand = Massive opportunity for electricity providers

Given all the negative comments on this thread, anyone would think that electricity generators / retailers / infrastructure providers are not going to bother responding to the increase in demand for their product, and instead give up, sobbing into their sandwiches.  In actual fact, a lot of extra capacity will be added, possibly in a slightly 'lumpy' fashion, but if the demand for electricity more than doubles when a household gets an electric car, then the electricity company sells twice as much.  Ker-ching!

This is not rocket science.

Much is happening including large and small scale battery storage, the high capacity electricity interconnector being built from Norway, etc, etc, providing extra generating and grid capacity.  Local infrastructure will be upgraded to cope with demand - the challenge will be when the trickle of early adopters turns into a tidal wave, as EVs become the norm.

[jimmy2x3]

all the negativity its like the wind power argument all over again. well that aint working out to great for the mountain gazers and nimbys. in scotland wind is making a huge contribution to the power needs of the country. 

 

but onto electric vehicles. its a bit like brexit, the old incumbants that make there money fleecing the general publc are scared of thee new era coming in. there cosy monopolies and positions are under threat from what will happen when they have to actually compete in a true free market where people can produce their own power. do people not realise how scary that is? the people producing there own power destroys half the ftse 100 it crashes about 5 million jobs, it destroys wealth on a scale never seen before. all they conspiracies about free power actually come true. 

 

ayone moaning about it, saying it unworkable are nothing but nimbys and very very wrong.  the future is houses and cars where the structure is the power itself. never mind sticking panels on a roof, the whole roof will be the panel. nevermind they little solar panels on campervans the whole campervan will be built as a power cell. 

 

in every industry just now there is a massive scramble for power cells. ice cream van makers whitby morrison are working with ed china to produce electric run vans, stagecoach is spending millions to make electric buses, a 100 start up companies are producing l-ion batteries and set ups for homes. it is literally the new computer era, the new age of flight, the new age of the internal combustion engine. 

 

get yer shares, get with it or your gonna be sitting in 10 years regretting it. stuff buying a house stick your money into thsse companies.

[winkie]

Happy with the eco car I have......like the boiler I have, like the gas & electric meter I have and the water meter I don't have.......leave people alone and stop changing things for the sake of change and charging them extra whether they change or not.....pricing them out into forcing change upon them.....if it works well why fix it??

[mattyboy1973]

1 hour ago, winkie said:

Happy with the eco car I have......like the boiler I have, like the gas & electric meter I have and the water meter I don't have.......leave people alone and stop changing things for the sake of change and charging them extra whether they change or not.....pricing them out into forcing change upon them.....if it works well why fix it??

But it doesn't work, in the sense that pollution in our major cities is literally killing people and climate change is threatening to destroy our planet. One of the very real functions that government has (and should have, IMO) is to protect the population from these things, and one of the most useful tools they have to change our behaviour is taxation. Taxation is the nudge before regulation, and there's little doubt that IC vehicles (diesel first, I guess) will be banned from our city centres within a couple of decades. If that is going to happen we need to start preparing now.

[winkie]

2 minutes ago, mattyboy1973 said:

But it doesn't work, in the sense that pollution in our major cities is literally killing people and climate change is threatening to destroy our planet. One of the very real functions that government has (and should have, IMO) is to protect the population from these things, and one of the most useful tools they have to change our behaviour is taxation. Taxation is the nudge before regulation, and there's little doubt that IC vehicles (diesel first, I guess) will be banned from our city centres within a couple of decades. If that is going to happen we need to start preparing now.

We in the UK are 1% of all the people in this world.......not against wind, sun and water energy, all for it.....but it will cost the consumer even though it will create jobs, is it more to do with being self sufficient as a county and exports than consumer choice?.....all for making petrol cars more energy efficient, those that want elecy let them have it......no more monopolies please.....?

[BorrowToLeech]

15 hours ago, nome said:

Not just apartments, it's just about unworkable for any property that doesn't have it's own private driveway.

Home. They are called homes. 

Edited July 10, 2018 by BuyToLeech

[nome]

12 minutes ago, BuyToLeech said:

Home. They are called homes. 

Fair point.

 

Although if we're going to be pedantic about things I'd like you to change your username to BorrowToLeech for accuracy!

[BorrowToLeech]

Good point.

Edited July 10, 2018 by BorrowToLeech

[adarmo]

18 hours ago, dougless said:

Interesting but unlikely unless they seriously beef up our power infrastructure.  Its a shame that some of the money thrown at electric cars isn't channeled into electric bikes.

Indeed. Or hydrogen. .... seems to be much better deal. Can be produced with surplus renewables and doesn't require batteries and all the headache and inefficiencies that go with that. Toyota just drove a hydrogen car the length of the UK. Seems a much better idea to me. 

[Maynardgravy]

55 minutes ago, mattyboy1973 said:

One of the very real functions that government has (and should have, IMO) is to protect the population from these things

and yet they never tackle the subject of population control.... call me a cynic...

[nome]

23 minutes ago, BorrowToLeech said:

Good point.

Well done!

[Locke]

16 hours ago, zilly said:

People in countries like the USA and UK have been programmed for many, many years to equate government/state programs with malign intent and gross inefficiency.

So dumb. Perhaps the malign intent and gross inefficiency of Statism has something to do with it?

[Locke]

1 hour ago, mattyboy1973 said:

But it doesn't work, in the sense that pollution in our major cities is literally killing people and climate change is threatening to destroy our planet.

After decades of growing government grip on your life, the problem is still there and your solution is more government?

Who was it had a quote for this? Stein? Meenstein? Something like that.

[Ballyk]

47 minutes ago, adarmo said:

Indeed. Or hydrogen. .... seems to be much better deal. Can be produced with surplus renewables and doesn't require batteries and all the headache and inefficiencies that go with that. Toyota just drove a hydrogen car the length of the UK. Seems a much better idea to me. 

Hydrogen is actually far less efficient than battery electric due to energy cost of producing it; also far more difficult / expensive to transport and store.

[Ballyk]

1 hour ago, winkie said:

We in the UK are 1% of all the people in this world.......not against wind, sun and water energy, all for it.....but it will cost the consumer even though it will create jobs, is it more to do with being self sufficient as a county and exports than consumer choice?.....all for making petrol cars more energy efficient, those that want elecy let them have it......no more monopolies please.....?

You will find that once electric cars get long enough range, you will actually prefer an electric car.  It will be like using a smartphone rather than an old Nokia. They are going to become cheaper (to buy as well as run), as well as quieter, faster and far cleaner.

[Andy T]

6 hours ago, jimmy2x3 said:

all the negativity its like the wind power argument all over again. well that aint working out to great for the mountain gazers and nimbys. in scotland wind is making a huge contribution to the power needs of the country. 

 

but onto electric vehicles. its a bit like brexit, the old incumbants that make there money fleecing the general publc are scared of thee new era coming in. there cosy monopolies and positions are under threat from what will happen when they have to actually compete in a true free market where people can produce their own power. do people not realise how scary that is? the people producing there own power destroys half the ftse 100 it crashes about 5 million jobs, it destroys wealth on a scale never seen before. all they conspiracies about free power actually come true. 

 

ayone moaning about it, saying it unworkable are nothing but nimbys and very very wrong.  the future is houses and cars where the structure is the power itself. never mind sticking panels on a roof, the whole roof will be the panel. nevermind they little solar panels on campervans the whole campervan will be built as a power cell. 

 

in every industry just now there is a massive scramble for power cells. ice cream van makers whitby morrison are working with ed china to produce electric run vans, stagecoach is spending millions to make electric buses, a 100 start up companies are producing l-ion batteries and set ups for homes. it is literally the new computer era, the new age of flight, the new age of the internal combustion engine. 

 

get yer shares, get with it or your gonna be sitting in 10 years regretting it. stuff buying a house stick your money into thsse companies.

How do they get around the issue of scarcity of battery raw materials though, if they become mainstream?

Lots of challenges and safety issues - I've seen a new/development battery housing for an electric car - it was heavy and had large cooling galleries - yes water cooled - how much heat are these batteries producing to need as much cooling as a combustion engine?  I think a lot of people think electric cars are just going to be purely electronic/tech items that are easy to produce, reality is they are still going to need heavy mechanicals/hydraulics/water cooling.

[Andy T]

A year or so ago the UK had a documented plan to be the world leader in self driving vehicles - how's that going?   

surely the two technologies are very closely linked, needs a joint plan.

If someone lives in a flat and only drives occasionally, not much point in owning and parking an EV vehicle - a driverless one could come and pick you up when required - it can be charged somewhere else.

Have also noticed long lines of EV charging points being installed at some motorway service stations lately.

 

 

Edited July 10, 2018 by Andy T

[Riedquat]

7 hours ago, jimmy2x3 said:

all the negativity its like the wind power argument all over again. well that aint working out to great for the mountain gazers and nimbys. in scotland wind is making a huge contribution to the power needs of the country.

 Milton Keynes was invented for the sort of people who like wind power.

Edited July 10, 2018 by Riedquat