BoE investigates 'terrifying' rise in borrowing to fund new car purchases

[2buyornot2buy]

1 minute ago, Gurgle said:

I did indeed.  Many of those hybrids are now PHEV so plug-in and therefore require charging points to get the maximum benefit, especially in the current times of very high fuel prices.

That said, you are correct that I didn't think it through properly and not all those vehicles need that infrastructure.  My bad.

No worries. The 50% figure makes it look like the UK is a head on meeting BEV targets when really they're miles behind. It's going to get pushed back a decade. 

[Gurgle]

2 minutes ago, 2buyornot2buy said:

No worries. The 50% figure makes it look like the UK is a head on meeting BEV targets when really they're miles behind. It's going to get pushed back a decade. 

It needs to unless they start building a LOT of charging infrastructure and increasing power generating capacity too.  Not going to happen with this government because they're clueless about anything in the real world.  Boris needs to go

[Saving For a Space Ship]

back on topic with the avg hatchback pcp costs...

edit: Does anyone have a graph showing pcp instalment inflation?

prices below see a lot more inflation. I remember when I first heard of pcp several years ago, a friend got a new vw polo for £120 a month + vat, but he got a trade discount. Not sure what money down was .

I see a lot of these pcp's being handed back midway through term doe to fuel cost / poverty 

 Fuel prices: Could I save money driving an electric car? https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/explainers-60943322

Quote

Leasing offers another option. According to Leasing.com, the demand for EVs in 2021 was greater than for diesel or petrol cars.It says the current average monthly payment for a five-seater hatchback is less than for the diesel equivalent

:EV £455.93

diesel £480.22

petrol £308.48 

 

Edited June 17, 2022 by Saving For a Space Ship

[mkil]

21 hours ago, Gurgle said:

I did indeed.  Many of those hybrids are now PHEV so plug-in and therefore require charging points to get the maximum benefit, especially in the current times of very high fuel prices.

That said, you are correct that I didn't think it through properly and not all those vehicles need that infrastructure.  My bad.

Or a granny charger than plugs into a 3pin socket.

[NoHPCinTheUK]

Are we really sure that a Tesla is more environmentally friendly than a 1.0 petrol Fiesta? 
 

The Fiesta is really cheap to run, less material to build it, no batteries etc. 
 

 

[Sour Mash]

2 hours ago, NoHPCinTheUK said:

Are we really sure that a Tesla is more environmentally friendly than a 1.0 petrol Fiesta? 
 

The Fiesta is really cheap to run, less material to build it, no batteries etc. 
 

 

ssssh.  'Carbon tax' is a really easy way to make money and exert control over businesses and people's lives.

 

[skinnylattej]

5 hours ago, mkil said:

Or a granny charger than plugs into a 3pin socket.

Very slow charging rate that isn't good for the batteries.

[2buyornot2buy]

6 hours ago, Saving For a Space Ship said:

back on topic with the avg hatchback pcp costs...

edit: Does anyone have a graph showing pcp instalment inflation?

prices below see a lot more inflation. I remember when I first heard of pcp several years ago, a friend got a new vw polo for £120 a month + vat, but he got a trade discount. Not sure what money down was .

I see a lot of these pcp's being handed back midway through term doe to fuel cost / poverty 

 Fuel prices: Could I save money driving an electric car? https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/explainers-60943322

 

Problem is, "midway through" is probably month 39 of a 48 month PCP "deal". 

[2buyornot2buy]

5 minutes ago, skinnylattej said:

Very slow charging rate that isn't good for the batteries.

Huh, I thought it was the opposite. Slow charging is better for batteries?

[Sour Mash]

1 hour ago, 2buyornot2buy said:

Huh, I thought it was the opposite. Slow charging is better for batteries?

Yep. Slower is better when it comes to charging.  eg. I never use fast charging on devices that support it, unless I am really desperate to use a depleted gadget.

EVs are going to have proper battery management systems and good cooling which should help them better withstand high power charging but if I had one I'd just go for the lowest rate that would top the vehicle up overnight.  (I have a home battery bank that I charge at half the rate it is theoretically capable of, at most, to preserve the useful life of the expensive cells within).

 

[2buyornot2buy]

1 hour ago, Sour Mash said:

Yep. Slower is better when it comes to charging.  eg. I never use fast charging on devices that support it, unless I am really desperate to use a depleted gadget.

EVs are going to have proper battery management systems and good cooling which should help them better withstand high power charging but if I had one I'd just go for the lowest rate that would top the vehicle up overnight.  (I have a home battery bank that I charge at half the rate it is theoretically capable of, at most, to preserve the useful life of the expensive cells within).

 

Thanks for that. I thought it was wrong and that high power DC was bad for batteries and low power AC should be used to balance the cells. 

[Sour Mash]

18 minutes ago, 2buyornot2buy said:

Thanks for that. I thought it was wrong and that high power DC was bad for batteries and low power AC should be used to balance the cells. 

For vehicles, people are going to prioritise speed of recharging over total lifespan of battery pack if they run low on juice whilst on the go.  That's why Teslas supercharger network is a selling point for them.

Even with higher power charging, you're still talking many tens of minutes to completely 'fill' a near empty EV battery.  That's at best annoying and at worst unworkable if there are a lot of people using EVs and needing to charge at a station.

 

For me, best use case for EVs is local or relatively local journeys.  Most people aren't going to do more than 200 miles in a typical day so if they can hit that capacity, anything above it is a bonus.  It makes travelling longer distances a real pain though.  Also of course, if you intend to top up overnight at home you do need your own driveway or dedicated parking space with a charge point.

 

 

 

[Gurgle]

21 hours ago, NoHPCinTheUK said:

Are we really sure that a Tesla is more environmentally friendly than a 1.0 petrol Fiesta? 
 

The Fiesta is really cheap to run, less material to build it, no batteries etc. 
 

 

It takes a significant amount of energy to build a new car.  For a typical family car the energy is around 55000 MJ or the equivalent of ~500 gallons of petrol.  That's about 25000 miles worth of driving in your fiesta.  EVs use more energy to build.  That's before we start talking about the scarce natural resources etc that all cars, particularly EVs use.  It really is not environmentally friendly in many cases to switch cars, especially to an EV.  It's all government BS in my opinion.  People in government don't like to deal in facts though so you get what you get.

[HousePriceTooHigh]

Wonder how many stories like this are out there. £1440 take home spending £550 on car finance. Going to be a lot of people like this getting squished by inflation and interest rate rises over the next few months. Looking forward to the mumsnet stories.

[FivePoundLatte]

1 minute ago, HousePriceTooHigh said:

Wonder how many stories like this are out there. £1440 take home spending £550 on car finance. Going to be a lot of people like this getting squished by inflation and interest rate rises over the next few months. Looking forward to the mumsnet stories.

Was just about to post this. £1300 per month on their car.

IRs being so low for so long will turn out to be a real scandal IMO. It's just encouraged even more profligacy than usual.

 

[Jolly Roger]

£230 insurance per month alone would put me off no matter how much I'm pulling in from salary. Just renewed my annual cover for the Fabia at £180.

I love how his treat for finally getting out of debt was to take on a whole load of new debt. It really is a hospital drip mainlined into the veins of the majority population, but they willingly held their arms out.

[Brave New World]

41 minutes ago, FivePoundLatte said:

Was just about to post this. £1300 per month on their car.

IRs being so low for so long will turn out to be a real scandal IMO. It's just encouraged even more profligacy than usual.

 

Tbf I read it as £2k a month take-home

Even so, the amount of chintzy wagons on PCH is notable. They litter new builds, the examples of people taking on 3-4 year old range rovers on contracts, parked outside rabbit hutches sums up the wil e coyote nature of the UK economy

Interest rate rises (forced globally) being the reckoner. Not going to be pretty.

 

 

 

 

[Gurgle]

1 hour ago, HousePriceTooHigh said:

Wonder how many stories like this are out there. £1440 take home spending £550 on car finance. Going to be a lot of people like this getting squished by inflation and interest rate rises over the next few months. Looking forward to the mumsnet stories.

Do people really do stuff like this?  She / he doesn't say hold old they are but I'm guessing relatively young based on the car value and the insurance costs.  Sounds like it's possibly a big chunk of their monthly income if they're so concerned too.

[Blobsy]

3 hours ago, HousePriceTooHigh said:

Wonder how many stories like this are out there. £1440 take home spending £550 on car finance. Going to be a lot of people like this getting squished by inflation and interest rate rises over the next few months. Looking forward to the mumsnet stories.

This is why I’m keeping my old banger going for the moment. There are going to be some absolute bargains on quality motors out there soon

[Brave New World]

35 minutes ago, Dogsy said:

This is why I’m keeping my old banger going for the moment. There are going to be some absolute bargains on quality motors out there soon

Yeah I held off this year. 

Some of the interest rate spreads were ridiculous Vs BOE. Car industry was making good on this but will be a big hurdle for them going forward. 

The COVID inflationary impact on the car market means jumping in now wod utterly ridiculous. Bad enough on a house but on a lump of tin that certainly isn't scarce....

[skinnylattej]

On 6/17/2022 at 2:58 PM, 2buyornot2buy said:

Huh, I thought it was the opposite. Slow charging is better for batteries?

Very slow charging from a granny cable can result in the battery not being fully charged at the end of the charging cycle, by which I mean either the end of the cheap tariff, or the need to use the vehicle.

Ideally a battery should be charged so that it is fully charged at the end of the charging cycle, as this minimises the number of charging cycles required.

[skinnylattej]

5 hours ago, Brave New World said:

Tbf I read it as £2k a month take-home

Even so, the amount of chintzy wagons on PCH is notable. They litter new builds, the examples of people taking on 3-4 year old range rovers on contracts, parked outside rabbit hutches sums up the wil e coyote nature of the UK economy

Interest rate rises (forced globally) being the reckoner. Not going to be pretty.

 

 

 

 

This is Cornwall!  Lots of BMW 1 series, small Audis, Range Rovers, Land Rovers of various sizes and degrees of ugliness, and electric Hyundai SUVs.

I believe in 'bangernomics' and have the oldest car in the street!

Run em till they drop!

[winkie]

On 18/06/2022 at 07:30, Gurgle said:

It takes a significant amount of energy to build a new car.  For a typical family car the energy is around 55000 MJ or the equivalent of ~500 gallons of petrol.  That's about 25000 miles worth of driving in your fiesta.  EVs use more energy to build.  That's before we start talking about the scarce natural resources etc that all cars, particularly EVs use.  It really is not environmentally friendly in many cases to switch cars, especially to an EV.  It's all government BS in my opinion.  People in government don't like to deal in facts though so you get what you get.

Yes EV are not environmentally friendly if already have an existing small, light, high mpg petrol car.....EV are heavy, batteries are not environmentally friendly and anyway electricity is still expensive and uses fossil fuels to make....agree all BS, EV are more about making money than saving the planet and they certainly are not cheap....81% of people say have no intention of buying one, got better things to spend good money on at the moment, anyway the infastructure is not up to supporting them.

 

[Saving For a Space Ship]

‘I cut my energy bills in half by using my electric car as a giant battery to store cheap power’

Marie Hubbard, a nurse in Leicester, slashed her monthly energy bill to £25 by using vehicle-to-grid technology  

https://www.express.co.uk/news/science/1628640/energy-crisis-briton-slashes-bills-electric-vehicle-ev-price-cap-rise

https://inews.co.uk/news/energy-bills-cut-electric-car-giant-battery-store-cheap-power-1696345

Edited June 23, 2022 by Saving For a Space Ship

[Confusion of VIs]

On 17/06/2022 at 09:30, NoHPCinTheUK said:

Are we really sure that a Tesla is more environmentally friendly than a 1.0 petrol Fiesta? 

The Fiesta is really cheap to run, less material to build it, no batteries etc. 

 

Yes.

Also how many people replace a 1.0 petrol Fiesta with a Tesla. More typically the trade in will rather less efficient premium German car. I replaced a 9mpg BMW M5 with a 100empg Tesla Model S.   

On 18/06/2022 at 07:30, Gurgle said:

It takes a significant amount of energy to build a new car.  For a typical family car the energy is around 55000 MJ or the equivalent of ~500 gallons of petrol.  That's about 25000 miles worth of driving in your fiesta.  EVs use more energy to build.  That's before we start talking about the scarce natural resources etc that all cars, particularly EVs use.  It really is not environmentally friendly in many cases to switch cars, especially to an EV.  It's all government BS in my opinion.  People in government don't like to deal in facts though so you get what you get.

So after 25,000 miles the EV has paid for itself and is in profit. You seem to have made the case for switching. NB For me that would have been about 4,500 or about 4 months motoring.