Brexit What Happens Next Thread ---multiple merged threads.

[HairyOb1]

14 hours ago, dryrot said:

No, we just dont want to pay to be part of a collapsing bureaucratic blancmange. I'm not sure how much of the real world impacts you - but hav'nt you noted the votes in Holland, France, Germany, Austria and Cz? The whole thing is coming apart and we should not pay to prop it up. Do you really think we should?

Record growth and a strong and stable currency, that's what's happened to the EU since we voted to leave.  Us, in the meantime, have done precisely the opposite of the EU i.e. collapsing growth and a weak currency.  Yup, the EU has it all wrong.

I'd also like to inform you, that in all of those countries you mention, the right wing isn't in power...

Yes, I do want to help prop it up, as I have seen massive improvements in Europe since the 60's and 70's.  

13 hours ago, pig said:

A lot of people anticipating the demise of the Tory party but I think as ever too much loaded onto politicians.

You may be right but their constituency won’t evaporate over night - what party will they vote for ?

Currently everything that’s gone wrong over the decades is apparently the fault of Gordon Brown, the EU and immigrants. What is going to get people to wake up ?

I get you’re pissed off with members of your family etc but voting aside or overtly getting into politics it’s ordinary people  carefully debating across that divide perhaps is the only means of changing things. Oh yeah and forums maybe lol!

I think the zeitgeist has shifted significantly, in that more and more people believe capitalism has failed them, and the country and that all we've seen is a massive transfer of wealth and corporate greed.  I think support for the status quo is collapsing, and we're seeing that across the western world. Trump got in on an "I'm different than the crowd" ticket,  and I think a Macron too.  I'll not go into the merits of both, but using them as an example of people being fed up with the state of politics.

I think on the issue of Brexit, there are too many now utterly entrenched in their views, and I feel it would be hard to change a lot of minds.  What I read on here, apart from the bilious nonsense, is a lot of people who are so utterly entrenched, that they cannot accept the facts that Brexit will be bad, or simply don't care it's going to be bad and once you get to that level, your mind is closed.  I have seen some waver, but there are some on here that if May stated she would have to sell their children to get Brexit through, would openly consider it, and once you have that stone wall, there's no reasoning.

[dryrot]

1 hour ago, HairyOb1 said:

Record growth and a strong and stable currency, that's what's happened to the EU since we voted to leave.  Us, in the meantime, have done precisely the opposite of the EU i.e. collapsing growth and a weak currency.  Yup, the EU has it all wrong.

I'd also like to inform you, that in all of those countries you mention, the right wing isn't in power...

Yes, I do want to help prop it up, as I have seen massive improvements in Europe since the 60's and 70's.  

I think the zeitgeist has shifted significantly, in that more and more people believe capitalism has failed them, and the country and that all we've seen is a massive transfer of wealth and corporate greed.  I think support for the status quo is collapsing, and we're seeing that across the western world. Trump got in on an "I'm different than the crowd" ticket,  and I think a Macron too.  I'll not go into the merits of both, but using them as an example of people being fed up with the state of politics.

I think on the issue of Brexit, there are too many now utterly entrenched in their views, and I feel it would be hard to change a lot of minds.  What I read on here, apart from the bilious nonsense, is a lot of people who are so utterly entrenched, that they cannot accept the facts that Brexit will be bad, or simply don't care it's going to be bad and once you get to that level, your mind is closed.  I have seen some waver, but there are some on here that if May stated she would have to sell their children to get Brexit through, would openly consider it, and once you have that stone wall, there's no reasoning.

We will have to differ here. Although I have my prejudices (we all do! :)) I am simply unable to look at the recent elections in Holland, France, Germany,  Austria, Cz etc and see strong support for an integrationist EU.  Can you? Do you really think is "stability"? And the Italian elections are coming up... The recent statements from the FDP in Germany, refusing any debt relief or Euro shared finances, are just the topping. 

I'd agree with your latter paragraphs. The great advantage of democracy ("populism", perhaps :)) is that the people can express their disquiet with TPTB. Trump is a good example, as you say.

[ZeroSumGame]

Wasn't Timothy one of Mays rear-guard that she recently fired?  Anyway Britain still cannot find the cojones to just LEAVE....... still prevaricating. indecisive.  

 

[rollover]

 

Quote

 

Theresa May 'begged' Juncker for help on Brexit

Theresa May appeared “tormented” and “begged” for help in Brexit talks, Jean-Claude Juncker reportedly told aides after dining with the Prime Minister last week. German newspaper Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung claimed that Ms May looked like she could not sleep and seemed “anxious” and “tormented” as well as “despondent and discouraged” with progress so far. 

The newspaper report said: “She indicated that back home friend and foe are at her back plotting to bring her down. May said she had no room left to manoeuvre. Ms May admitted to EU leaders over dinner for the first time on Thursday evening that Brexit had faced “difficulty”.  Independent

 

 

More leak claims.

[kzb]

1 hour ago, dryrot said:

We will have to differ here. Although I have my prejudices (we all do! :)) I am simply unable to look at the recent elections in Holland, France, Germany,  Austria, Cz etc and see strong support for an integrationist EU.  Can you? Do you really think is "stability"? And the Italian elections are coming up... The recent statements from the FDP in Germany, refusing any debt relief or Euro shared finances, are just the topping. 

I'd agree with your latter paragraphs. The great advantage of democracy ("populism", perhaps :)) is that the people can express their disquiet with TPTB. Trump is a good example, as you say.

Slightly off topic, but can I point out Austria is the only EU country that allows voting for 16-year olds in general elections.

Also there are regional independence elections planned in Italy, Veneto apparently the first.

Perhaps we are seeing the plan to break up large EU nation states into regions going into action now ?

[HairyOb1]

1 hour ago, dryrot said:

We will have to differ here. Although I have my prejudices (we all do! :)) I am simply unable to look at the recent elections in Holland, France, Germany,  Austria, Cz etc and see strong support for an integrationist EU.  Can you? Do you really think is "stability"? And the Italian elections are coming up... The recent statements from the FDP in Germany, refusing any debt relief or Euro shared finances, are just the topping. 

I'd agree with your latter paragraphs. The great advantage of democracy ("populism", perhaps :)) is that the people can express their disquiet with TPTB. Trump is a good example, as you say.

Quite, we all do have our own interests, I have to agree.

I go to France a lot and work on the continent a lot too; I speak to many people, at various levels.  I think there's a far greater appetite for closer EU integration than you'd imagine, especially amongst the folk born post WW2.  I think populist politicians are jumping on the bandwagon as people are somewhat unhappy with how things are.  I think immigration, unfettered, is a large issue and will have to be addressed moving forward.  Germany has an ageing population, ageing workforce, a declining fertility rate and a massive pension bill coming over the next 10-15 years.  I think their open borders approach was drawn out of necessity, as they simply do not have enough people there to support the time bomb that's coming.  However, it's been a disaster, as all they appear to do, is hand these people a lot of freedom, social freedom, that they've never had before and welfare cheques whilst they find suitable work for them.  I have friends in a sizeable town north of Frankfurt which saw them accept 48,000 migrants.  So now they have, let's say, 25,000 young males with nothing to do, money and more social freedom than ever before, in what is a university town.  You don't need to be Einstein to work out where that is going to go wrong, and this is being reflected in peoples liberal views being warped a little.  However, over time, I think this will change, as what they are doing, is identifying what skills these people have and are lining up training and work for them in these areas.  They have classes they attend to understand western values, so educate them in what they should and shouldn't do and slowly, these problems are going away.  There are issues in the Eastern States of Germany though, areas of high unemployment pissed off that money is going to migrants, and not them, which is where we're seeing populism gaining traction.

As an aside, in a tiny little German village, a very good friend lives in, I was introduced to a Syrian family who have been given a house there and all attend training (and local school).  The village has accepted them, and 20 other young migrants housed in a dorm-style building, with incredible warmth and generosity, even putting on a Syrian evening at the local school hall to welcome them.  

I do think it's a game of two halves really, in that in areas of less prosperity, there are issues and in other better off areas, fewer issues.

But Germany did, and still does, have to do something.  The problem with the growth they've had is that they need it to fuel all of the promises they made on the back of that growth - Healthcare, pensions, etc.  I think it's a problem we're all going to have to face up to in the end and that is capitalism has an end date on it.

 

[Futuroid]

8 hours ago, ExiledMatty said:

Leaving the EU will solve so many issues including the over stretched NHS, the budget and even the housing crisis, by clearing out all the spongers from Europe who claim more than they contribute.

The Europeans who work here should be allowed to stay of course and immigrants from outside EU should be encouraged to come too. If they cannot support themselves then adios.

If a hard Brexit only cleared the streets of Romanian big issue sellers (benefit manipulating beggars essentially) then it would be worth all the economic pain.

Yes, "the answer is Brexit, now what's the question". 

[jonb2]

8 hours ago, ExiledMatty said:

The Europeans who work here should be allowed to stay of course and immigrants from outside EU should be encouraged to come too.

Why the feck would anybody with talent want to come here after Brexit?? - A divided and broken country who has shown they are not keen on foreigners.

There are plenty of other places where there are better prospects and they would be made more welcome:

https://www.immigroup.com/news/top-10-immigration-friendly-countries

[dryrot]

2 hours ago, HairyOb1 said:

Quite, we all do have our own interests, I have to agree.

I go to France a lot and work on the continent a lot too; I speak to many people, at various levels.  I think there's a far greater appetite for closer EU integration than you'd imagine, especially amongst the folk born post WW2.  I think populist politicians are jumping on the bandwagon as people are somewhat unhappy with how things are.  I think immigration, unfettered, is a large issue and will have to be addressed moving forward.  Germany has an ageing population, ageing workforce, a declining fertility rate and a massive pension bill coming over the next 10-15 years.  I think their open borders approach was drawn out of necessity, as they simply do not have enough people there to support the time bomb that's coming.  However, it's been a disaster, as all they appear to do, is hand these people a lot of freedom, social freedom, that they've never had before and welfare cheques whilst they find suitable work for them.  I have friends in a sizeable town north of Frankfurt which saw them accept 48,000 migrants.  So now they have, let's say, 25,000 young males with nothing to do, money and more social freedom than ever before, in what is a university town.  You don't need to be Einstein to work out where that is going to go wrong, and this is being reflected in peoples liberal views being warped a little.  However, over time, I think this will change, as what they are doing, is identifying what skills these people have and are lining up training and work for them in these areas.  They have classes they attend to understand western values, so educate them in what they should and shouldn't do and slowly, these problems are going away.  There are issues in the Eastern States of Germany though, areas of high unemployment pissed off that money is going to migrants, and not them, which is where we're seeing populism gaining traction.

As an aside, in a tiny little German village, a very good friend lives in, I was introduced to a Syrian family who have been given a house there and all attend training (and local school).  The village has accepted them, and 20 other young migrants housed in a dorm-style building, with incredible warmth and generosity, even putting on a Syrian evening at the local school hall to welcome them.  

I do think it's a game of two halves really, in that in areas of less prosperity, there are issues and in other better off areas, fewer issues.

But Germany did, and still does, have to do something.  The problem with the growth they've had is that they need it to fuel all of the promises they made on the back of that growth - Healthcare, pensions, etc.  I think it's a problem we're all going to have to face up to in the end and that is capitalism has an end date on it.

 

Challenging times! Of course when German grants the (2million?) young male migrants citizenship, they will have the right to travel and stay anywhere in the EU (UK excepted if we achieve Brexit :))... The press is quite controlled in Germany but there are reports of issues:

1. No-go zone in Cologne’s inner city” screamed the headlines of the German newspaper Die Welt, while District Mayor Andreas Hupke said to reporters, “Police have given up on the Ebertplatz area.” The local newspaper Express reported “Ebertplatz is degenerating into a lawless area in the middle of Cologne city.” The area is reportedly made up of young migrants from North and Sub-Sahara Africa who are dealing drugs and have formed gangs.Cologne was made famous by migrant rape gangs on New Year’s Eve in 2015, where more than 1,200 women were sexually assaulted and robbed in front of the central station and other locations. According to Interior Minister of North Rhine-Westphalia state Ralf Jaeger “Most of the cases [of rape and sexual assault in Cologne] will remain unsolved.

Natalie Bennett of the Green Party simply said the sex assaults were "fake news". Thats one way round it I suppose.

Germany has just passed a law censoring social media. Perhaps things are rougher than I realised?

[jonb2]

7 hours ago, macca13 said:

We need the extra 1 million people every 3 years! ?

80% of the planets species are of the flowering variety, killing all pollinating insects could wipe out our food sources.. between 50% to 90% of everything we eat requires insects.. does anyone care.. well not yet.. but we soon will do.. no honey, no jam, no birds, no butterfly’s.. no food! 

This come as a new study shows we are killing all insects with human activity, we in the UK import 65% of our food because of our massive population! Wishing for more imigration is like wishing yourself dead! 

Everyone is worried about things that are not real, but not worried about things that are!

Environmental pollution kills 9 million people every year, more than aids, tuberculosis and malaria put together!   

 

Well Macca - that's the solution in one. Well done!!

We just need a lot more pollution - that will sort out the immigration problem and help Reidquat with his people cull at the same time.

Back to the time of Jane Austen where it took 2 days to bring a doctor to a woman about to die from childbirth. And the chat was simply about the new squire and horses.

Can't wait.

 

[dryrot]

7 minutes ago, jonb2 said:

Why the feck would anybody with talent want to come here after Brexit?? - A divided and broken country who has shown they are not keen on foreigners.

There are plenty of other places where there are better prospects and they would be made more welcome:

https://www.immigroup.com/news/top-10-immigration-friendly-countries

Do you even read what you post? Your link suggests Brazil, the UAE, Israel. Not sure about the first, the second rule of law is - er - iffy, and I dont think Israel has an open-door immigration policy...

Why do so many French people work in the UK now? Dont tell me, its our wonderful cuisine... Sheeesh!

[HairyOb1]

1 minute ago, dryrot said:

Challenging times! Of course when German grants the (2million?) young male migrants citizenship, they will have the right to travel and stay anywhere in the EU (UK excepted if we achieve Brexit :))... The press is quite controlled in Germany but there are reports of issues:

1. No-go zone in Cologne’s inner city” screamed the headlines of the German newspaper Die Welt, while District Mayor Andreas Hupke said to reporters, “Police have given up on the Ebertplatz area.” The local newspaper Express reported “Ebertplatz is degenerating into a lawless area in the middle of Cologne city.” The area is reportedly made up of young migrants from North and Sub-Sahara Africa who are dealing drugs and have formed gangs.Cologne was made famous by migrant rape gangs on New Year’s Eve in 2015, where more than 1,200 women were sexually assaulted and robbed in front of the central station and other locations. According to Interior Minister of North Rhine-Westphalia state Ralf Jaeger “Most of the cases [of rape and sexual assault in Cologne] will remain unsolved.

Natalie Bennett of the Green Party simply said the sex assaults were "fake news". Thats one way round it I suppose.

Germany has just passed a law censoring social media. Perhaps things are rougher than I realised?

Think of the Mail and Express when regarding certain papers in Germany.

I was born there and go back a lot.  I am literally on Whatsapp right now with the friend whom I talked about above and locally whilst there are disturbances and have been 'assaults', whilst not degenerating the assaults, it's been mainly about feeling women up,  and I mention the social freedoms the migrants have now and, again, not defending the indefensible,  but it's been mainly one borne of culture, that the Germans are working on through education.  Imagine growing up with girls walking around in shawls and veils, with you being unable to even be near them to suddenly being able to sit next to topless girls in jacuzzis at the local baths, seeing women sunbathing naked, which they do over there (makes for a lovely summers lunch in the park - being facetious if anyone is going to be offended).  You can imagine it being a bit mental for them.  I don;t defend it, but I can see why the Germans were having issues with it.    

Aforementioned chat with Friend near Giessen:

Me: Have there been a lot of assaults on women?  There's a narrative over here that it's happening a lot and the police are overwhelmed and cannot police certain areas.  Is that true of Giessen for example?

My friend: A few, but I don't think there have been more assults on women from refugees as than locals...

It's also 1 million migrants, not 2 million migrant males.

[HairyOb1]

32 minutes ago, dryrot said:

Do you even read what you post? Your link suggests Brazil, the UAE, Israel. Not sure about the first, the second rule of law is - er - iffy, and I dont think Israel has an open-door immigration policy...

Why do so many French people work in the UK now? Dont tell me, its our wonderful cuisine... Sheeesh!

Because the UK is full of Global corporations, that have many people able to move country to country?  And the food in a lot of the cities in the UK is fabulous.  London has 300 different world cuisines.

Oh, you didn't just think people could only eat English food here did you?  

The fact is, there's a lot of French people here as they can be.  Lots also tear back home at the weekends, as they can.  You think they're all going to stay once we depart the EU?  Science will lose so many good professors once the EU finding stops, they'll simply follow the money to the European Institutions.  

In the 70's, we had a brain drain as tax went up so much, now we're going to have another one, due to a collective shot in the foot.

Edited October 23, 2017 by HairyOb1

[jonb2]

34 minutes ago, dryrot said:

Do you even read what you post? Your link suggests Brazil, the UAE, Israel. Not sure about the first, the second rule of law is - er - iffy, and I dont think Israel has an open-door immigration policy...

Why do so many French people work in the UK now? Dont tell me, its our wonderful cuisine... Sheeesh!

Point taken on the link - the first that came to hand.

But ...

Hate crime up. A definite whiff of xenophobia - despite the deniers - it's the perception that counts.

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/brexit-european-migrants-immigration-figures-eu-workers-decline-desert-theresa-may-trouble-a7583376.html

I ask again - why would anybody talented want to come here?

BTW, a lot of the 'new French' were bankers:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/hard-brexit-french-bankers-return-paris-france-post-london-frankfurt-eu-uk-leave-finance-economy-a7990236.html

Edited October 23, 2017 by jonb2

[Unexpected]

27 minutes ago, jonb2 said:

Point taken on the link - the first that came to hand.

But ...

Hate crime up. A definite whiff of xenophobia - despite the deniers - it's the perception that counts.

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/brexit-european-migrants-immigration-figures-eu-workers-decline-desert-theresa-may-trouble-a7583376.html

I ask again - why would anybody talented want to come here?

BTW, a lot of the 'new French' were bankers:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/hard-brexit-french-bankers-return-paris-france-post-london-frankfurt-eu-uk-leave-finance-economy-a7990236.html

I read somewhere that the only reason that hate crime was perceived to be up after brexit was that the police had changed the way the figures were calculated. Sorry I cant remember where I read this so cannot provide a link. Have no idea if the method was deliberately changed at that point for obvious reasons or not.

Also, the link, which I know you already pointed out is not very useful, has Canada as the number one immigration friendly country. This is so wrong in reality (much as many brexiters would like to use their points system) as they are very unfriendly to immigrants at least when it comes to getting jobs. I know because I have emigrated there in the past and it is very hard to get decent work for most immigrants. Even many of the job adverts state that you must have 5 years Canadian experience. I found work pretty quick but the other immigrants I knew there really struggled. We stuck it out for about 6 months but it became clear that we'd always be second class citizens there so came back to the UK where decent work was in abundance. The reality can be very different from what you read about and do not listen to bs about a country being non discriminating. The bottom line is that the Canadians are keeping the best jobs for the Canadians and are probably the least immigrant friendly country in the west.

[dryrot]

1 hour ago, jonb2 said:

BTW, a lot of the 'new French' were bankers:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/hard-brexit-french-bankers-return-paris-france-post-london-frankfurt-eu-uk-leave-finance-economy-a7990236.html

 Even more of a Brexit plus if they go?  

My laboured attempts at humour aside, i thought the attraction was lower tax here. We'll see what Macron does. I'm not sure why folk flood to the UK either, but they seem to. Perhaps we are cr%p but everywhere else is worse?

 

[rollover]

 

Quote

 

Theresa May gives statement to MPs about Brexit and EU summit

Politics live - Guardian

 

 

 

[HairyOb1]

32 minutes ago, dryrot said:

 Even more of a Brexit plus if they go?  

My laboured attempts at humour aside, i thought the attraction was lower tax here. We'll see what Macron does. I'm not sure why folk flood to the UK either, but they seem to. Perhaps we are cr%p but everywhere else is worse?

 

Haha, that's very good.  

I'd live in France tomorrow, were it not for my kids starting GCSE's here.  Spain I'd go too, Valencia and Seville so very lovely to live in, jobs there too.  However, with Corp tax about to drop I might hand around a bit longer

[Thorn]

7 hours ago, jonb2 said:

Point taken on the link - the first that came to hand.

But ...

Hate crime up. A definite whiff of xenophobia - despite the deniers - it's the perception that counts.

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/brexit-european-migrants-immigration-figures-eu-workers-decline-desert-theresa-may-trouble-a7583376.html

I ask again - why would anybody talented want to come here?

BTW, a lot of the 'new French' were bankers:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/hard-brexit-french-bankers-return-paris-france-post-london-frankfurt-eu-uk-leave-finance-economy-a7990236.html

A lot probably have been part of the wave of 10,000 reported to have emigrated from France to avoid the new Super-Rich Tax which Francois Hollande set up to target them. They moved their asses and their assets as fast as they could it seems. 

[Eddie_George]

9 hours ago, HairyOb1 said:

Think of the Mail and Express when regarding certain papers in Germany.

I was born there and go back a lot.  I am literally on Whatsapp right now with the friend whom I talked about above and locally whilst there are disturbances and have been 'assaults', whilst not degenerating the assaults, it's been mainly about feeling women up,  and I mention the social freedoms the migrants have now and, again, not defending the indefensible,  but it's been mainly one borne of culture, that the Germans are working on through education.  Imagine growing up with girls walking around in shawls and veils, with you being unable to even be near them to suddenly being able to sit next to topless girls in jacuzzis at the local baths, seeing women sunbathing naked, which they do over there (makes for a lovely summers lunch in the park - being facetious if anyone is going to be offended).  You can imagine it being a bit mental for them.  I don;t defend it, but I can see why the Germans were having issues with it.    

Aforementioned chat with Friend near Giessen:

Me: Have there been a lot of assaults on women?  There's a narrative over here that it's happening a lot and the police are overwhelmed and cannot police certain areas.  Is that true of Giessen for example?

My friend: A few, but I don't think there have been more assults on women from refugees as than locals...

It's also 1 million migrants, not 2 million migrant males.

I can't believe what I'm reading. Are you an apologist for terrorism too?

[OnionTerror]

Barnier suggests that the UK will end up with a CETA type deal...

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/oct/23/uk-likely-to-end-up-with-canadian-style-deal-warns-michel-barnier?CMP=share_btn_tw

[Fence]

13 hours ago, HairyOb1 said:

 I think it's a problem we're all going to have to face up to in the end and that is capitalism has an end date on it.

Pretty much all my German friends have left Germany.  They see their taxes going on coach days out and the like for the retired and know there will be little left for them.

[macca13]

11 hours ago, jonb2 said:

Well Macca - that's the solution in one. Well done!!

We just need a lot more pollution - that will sort out the immigration problem and help Reidquat with his people cull at the same time.

Back to the time of Jane Austen where it took 2 days to bring a doctor to a woman about to die from childbirth. And the chat was simply about the new squire and horses.

Can't wait.

 

I don’t think people understand how bad the planet is, I feel within the next 20 years environmental issues are going to be apocalyptic.. I keep saying it but the less people we have the safer we will be.. I want a Wexit, world exit.. close the boarders to everyone.. 

we have enough problems without more people.. 

Sea is rising, rate of rise is increasing, melting ice caps combined with thermal expansion from rising temperatures.

food shortages, we have lost over 70% of our insects in the last 10 years, without them crops will fail, we already import 65% of our food.. people will starve. 

fish stocks, as we continue to dump our plastic in the sea and take out more and more fish for food there will become a point where we are taking fish faster than they can reproduce or they will die from pollution. It’s happening with some species already..

why to dumb **** people think we can continue to flood the planet with our destructive ways without total collapse.  no more people! I don’t care about trade deals.. it’s all a load of nonsense..  start caring about the planet.. 

[IMHAL]

6 hours ago, macca13 said:

I don’t think people understand how bad the planet is, I feel within the next 20 years environmental issues are going to be apocalyptic.. I keep saying it but the less people we have the safer we will be.. I want a Wexit, world exit.. close the boarders to everyone.. 

we have enough problems without more people.. 

Sea is rising, rate of rise is increasing, melting ice caps combined with thermal expansion from rising temperatures.

food shortages, we have lost over 70% of our insects in the last 10 years, without them crops will fail, we already import 65% of our food.. people will starve. 

fish stocks, as we continue to dump our plastic in the sea and take out more and more fish for food there will become a point where we are taking fish faster than they can reproduce or they will die from pollution. It’s happening with some species already..

why to dumb **** people think we can continue to flood the planet with our destructive ways without total collapse.  no more people! I don’t care about trade deals.. it’s all a load of nonsense..  start caring about the planet.. 

I wonder what you want for Xmass? .......... a tin foil hat maybe?

[Unexpected]

19 minutes ago, IMHAL said:

I wonder what you want for Xmass? .......... a tin foil hat maybe?

By Xmass do you mean a mass 'X' of humans where 'X' represents the critical mass of humans where by the earth can no longer sustain them?