smash Posted November 15, 2018 Share Posted November 15, 2018 2 minutes ago, Bruce Banner said: Unless I misunderstood, JRM just raised the question of a vote of no confidence to Mrs May. Don't reckon he would do that if he weren't sure of the numbers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confusion of VIs Posted November 15, 2018 Share Posted November 15, 2018 15 minutes ago, GrizzlyDave said: Not if we hard brexit. Nothing to do with Brexit, several European Nations value fish more highly than we do and will trade something we value more for fishing rights. We won't get the dozens of mini deals that are still required by a hard Brexit unless we are willing trade. 15 minutes ago, GrizzlyDave said: It’s important to me. Why, it's a small industry that will continue shrinking as it becomes increasingly mechanised. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hotblack42 Posted November 15, 2018 Share Posted November 15, 2018 Just now, Confusion of VIs said: Nothing to do with Brexit, several European Nations value fish more highly than we do and will trade something we value more for fishing rights. We won't get the dozens of mini deals that are still required by a hard Brexit unless we are willing trade. Why, it's a small industry that will continue shrinking as it becomes increasingly mechanised. More cargo is shifted in Liverpool using remote control and automation than hordes of Stevedores could ever manage. Low job count doesn't necessarily mean a smaller industry. Personal view is that a monopoly over large and well managed, but finite fish stocks in the context of a growing, ageing world population is great for this country, economically and as a food security plank. Can't comment on the social implications, not my field. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Banner Posted November 15, 2018 Share Posted November 15, 2018 8 minutes ago, smash said: Don't reckon he would do that if he weren't sure of the numbers. He asked May to tell him, in the light of her saying one thing and doing the opposite, why he shouldn't send a letter to the chairman of 1922 committee. She's really under pressure and looking flustered and sounding like a parrot . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrizzlyDave Posted November 15, 2018 Share Posted November 15, 2018 9 minutes ago, Confusion of VIs said: Nothing to do with Brexit, several European Nations value fish more highly than we do and will trade something we value more for fishing rights. We won't get the dozens of mini deals that are still required by a hard Brexit unless we are willing trade. Why, it's a small industry that will continue shrinking as it becomes increasingly mechanised. We’ve been round this bouy before. Fishing trade for aviation makes no sense. If the eu gets punitive with air access Ireland is deeply isolated and transatlantic travel deeply hindered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Banner Posted November 15, 2018 Share Posted November 15, 2018 Esther McVey has resigned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Social Justice League Posted November 15, 2018 Share Posted November 15, 2018 I've said this before. Brexit isn't going to happen imo. Let's see how this pans out. May is finished, quite clearly and so is her deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IMHAL Posted November 15, 2018 Share Posted November 15, 2018 1 minute ago, Kosmin said: Approximately 37% of the electorate voted for Brexit. If they all voted UKIP they could probably form a government, perhaps even win by a landslide, due to the distribution of votes by constituency. But how many who voted leave are hardened leavers? Now that the unicorn and rainbow Brexit myth has been busted...my guess is not that many would vote for a hard brexit...because that is the only 'Brexity' choice on the table. Running on a Checkers Mk11 ticket is a non starter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thehowler Posted November 15, 2018 Share Posted November 15, 2018 2 minutes ago, Social Justice League said: May is finished, quite clearly and so is her deal. There's nothing clear about any of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Errol Posted November 15, 2018 Share Posted November 15, 2018 (edited) Proceed to no deal then. Get on with it. Just walk away (as we should have done the day after the referendum). If they dare to have another vote people who voted to leave will just vote leave again. Nothing has changed. The issues remain exactly the same. Edited November 15, 2018 by Errol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikhail Liebenstein Posted November 15, 2018 Share Posted November 15, 2018 (edited) 3 minutes ago, IMHAL said: Now that the unicorn and rainbow Brexit myth has been busted...my guess is not that many would vote for a hard brexit...because that is the only 'Brexity' choice on the table. Running on a Checkers Mk11 ticket is a non starter. Right now, May should just revoke article 50 and have Jacob Rees-Mogg et al sent to a gulag somewhere. Edited November 15, 2018 by Mikhail Liebenstein Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thehowler Posted November 15, 2018 Share Posted November 15, 2018 Just now, Errol said: Proceed to no deal then. That's what remainers, 2nd reffers and the other knockers could well get if they keep bashing this deal. Which in essence is a soft brexit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Social Justice League Posted November 15, 2018 Share Posted November 15, 2018 There will be another vote imo. Let's see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confusion of VIs Posted November 15, 2018 Share Posted November 15, 2018 12 minutes ago, hotblack42 said: More cargo is shifted in Liverpool using remote control and automation than hordes of Stevedores could ever manage. Low job count doesn't necessarily mean a smaller industry. Personal view is that a monopoly over large and well managed, but finite fish stocks in the context of a growing, ageing world population is great for this country, economically and as a food security plank. Can't comment on the social implications, not my field. It's the social implications that is driving this, there is a genuine belief in the old fishing ports that leaving the EU will bring back the good times. It won't of course as twenty of the old boats will still be replaced by one factory trawler. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikhail Liebenstein Posted November 15, 2018 Share Posted November 15, 2018 1 minute ago, Errol said: Proceed to no deal then. Get on with it. Just walk away (as we should have done the day after the referendum). If they dare to have another vote people who voted to leave will just vote leave again. Nothing has changed. The issues remains exactly the same. That is not true. Remain would win by at least 10 points now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikhail Liebenstein Posted November 15, 2018 Share Posted November 15, 2018 (edited) 2 minutes ago, thehowler said: That's what remainers, 2nd reffers and the other knockers could well get if they keep bashing this deal. Which in essence is a soft brexit. That won’t happen. It will be extension or no Brexit. Edited November 15, 2018 by Mikhail Liebenstein Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Social Justice League Posted November 15, 2018 Share Posted November 15, 2018 1 minute ago, Mikhail Liebenstein said: That is not true. Remain would win by at least 10 points now. Agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Errol Posted November 15, 2018 Share Posted November 15, 2018 1 minute ago, Mikhail Liebenstein said: That is not true. Remain would win by at least 10 points now. That's what they said before the referendum. In any event, presumably we would have to have a referendum every year at that point. Why would the second one be any more valid? Nearly 50% of the population (to go on your figure) would still vote to leave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Errol Posted November 15, 2018 Share Posted November 15, 2018 (edited) For the record, ALL regions of the UK except for 3, voted (quite clearly in many cases) to leave. There is simply no basis for anything other than leaving. Results by United Kingdom regions Region Electorate Voter turnout, of eligible Votes Proportion of votes Remain Leave Remain Leave East Midlands 3,384,299 74.2% 1,033,036 1,475,479 41.18% 58.82% East of England 4,398,796 75.7% 1,448,616 1,880,367 43.52% 56.48% Greater London 5,424,768 69.7% 2,263,519 1,513,232 59.93% 40.07% North East England 1,934,341 69.3% 562,595 778,103 41.96% 58.04% North West England 5,241,568 70.0% 1,699,020 1,966,925 46.35% 53.65% Northern Ireland 1,260,955 62.7% 440,707 349,442 55.78% 44.22% Scotland 3,987,112 67.2% 1,661,191 1,018,322 62.00% 38.00% South East England 6,465,404 76.8% 2,391,718 2,567,965 48.22% 51.78% South West England (including Gibraltar) 4,138,134 76.7% 1,503,019 1,669,711 47.37% 52.63% Wales 2,270,272 71.7% 772,347 854,572 47.47% 52.53% West Midlands 4,116,572 72.0% 1,207,175 1,755,687 40.74% 59.26% Yorkshire and the Humber 3,877,780 70.7% 1,158,298 1,580,937 42.29% 57.71% Leave in blue: Edited November 15, 2018 by Errol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrizzlyDave Posted November 15, 2018 Share Posted November 15, 2018 5 minutes ago, Mikhail Liebenstein said: That is not true. Remain would win by at least 10 points now. Dream on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IMHAL Posted November 15, 2018 Share Posted November 15, 2018 1 minute ago, GrizzlyDave said: Dream on True - I reckon remain would win by at least double that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrizzlyDave Posted November 15, 2018 Share Posted November 15, 2018 EU want to sign the deal Lickety Split! https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6390415/Michel-Barnier-hails-Mays-deal-crucial-decisive-step-Brexit.html tells you all you need to know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thehowler Posted November 15, 2018 Share Posted November 15, 2018 8 minutes ago, Mikhail Liebenstein said: That is not true. Remain would win by at least 10 points now. Why? What has changed between leavers and remainers? What has changed in the remain argument? Nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Errol Posted November 15, 2018 Share Posted November 15, 2018 (edited) 2 minutes ago, IMHAL said: True - I reckon remain would win by at least double that. Nobody I know has changed their mind. What makes you think people would have changed their minds? Absolutely nothing has changed. Zero. The position is exactly the same and all the arguments are exactly the same. We just need to walk away now. Either that or put someone who actually wants to leave in charge. Edited November 15, 2018 by Errol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikhail Liebenstein Posted November 15, 2018 Share Posted November 15, 2018 Just now, GrizzlyDave said: Dream on There is a lot of regret in places like Birmingham, Sunderland etc. LBC has Brexit voters calling and bursting into tears and apologising. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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