Smart meters..................here it comes

[sexton]

4 minutes ago, Sackboii said:

That would be useful.

 

Spotpriser på el för området SE3 - Stockholm _ Elbruk.se.pdf

[Sackboii]

1 minute ago, sexton said:

 

Spotpriser på el för området SE3 - Stockholm _ Elbruk.se.pdf 107.01 kB · 1 download

Is this what you get daily ? Is there an API to query all this in advance ?

If not, presume it is available to query electronically by even if by crawling a webpage ?

[winkie]

In Spain even though they have increased IVA/vat taxes on electricity recently still more than a third cheaper than UK.......why are we having to pay so much more.....war in Ukraine, pandemic same for all countries?

https://www.thesun.co.uk/travel/27182314/brit-living-spain-saving-thousands-rent/

[Brendan110_0]

They'll turn off the leccy in poor areas so the richer class can keep the lights on. Invest in candles! Be just like India, but scruffier and poorer in a decade. 

[hughjass]

Can anyone get that article put up, I dont want to giver the DT any of my information.

Thanks

[Confusion of VIs]

17 minutes ago, hughjass said:

Can anyone get that article put up, I dont want to giver the DT any of my information.

Thanks

Nobody does.

Just turn off JavaScript and the paywall goes away.

[Will!]

I had a smart meter fitted last week.  They’re having some trouble configuring it with the nanoprobes in my Covid vaccine within my 15 minute control grid.

[Chunketh]

Flattening the demand curve is the objective, in fact you could argue that it’s the biggest driver in the smart meter rollout. It makes complete sense and would save the country a massive amount of cash and carbon.

Not that the torygraph has interest in being objective when it comes to smart metering.

[Will!]

Andrew Orlowski in the Telegraph: Energy rationing

[fellow]

42 minutes ago, Chunketh said:

Flattening the demand curve is the objective, in fact you could argue that it’s the biggest driver in the smart meter rollout. It makes complete sense and would save the country a massive amount of cash and carbon.

Not that the torygraph has interest in being objective when it comes to smart metering.

The problem is peak demand is work days between 16:00 and 19:00 so those are the times they will want to make more expensive. Nobody is going to choose not to cook dinner or put the telly on when they get home from work just because the price is higher so this will end up being just another money grab.

[dpg50000]

12 hours ago, fellow said:

The problem is peak demand is work days between 16:00 and 19:00 so those are the times they will want to make more expensive. Nobody is going to choose not to cook dinner or put the telly on when they get home from work just because the price is higher so this will end up being just another money grab.

Agreed. In principle, surge pricing is a good idea, but in reality it will just be an excuse to make more profit.

[Chunketh]

12 hours ago, fellow said:

Nobody is going to choose not to cook dinner or put the telly on when they get home from work just because the price is higher

Yet those using agile tariffs already do make that choice. 
 

By the time this policy idea sees the light of day v2g will be more than a niche and many more homes will have dedicated storage. Further increasing take up.

remember, not everyone needs to make the voluntary decision to move to MHHS for the curve to flatten. It’s already started to.

[TenYearToGetMyMoneyBack]

18 hours ago, Sackboii said:

Actually, a great idea.

Storage heaters of old operated on a similar principle, use cheaper off-peak electricity to heat up a thermal mass of bricks inside the unit, then slowly release that heat throughout the rest of the following day, geared towards mornings and evenings.

Today, we need to store electricity, not heat. With a correctly designed system, rolled out en masse, it could really work well.

Someone ought to dust off the plans for the GEC Nightstor electric central heating boiler
For some reason I can't paste a link so Google it and look at Mike the Boilerman's page on it.

In terms of flattening demand it is obvious that nobody should need to charge their EV at home at 6pm. The guy who has just bought a PHEV said he had found a tariff where at some times the electricity company would pay him to charge it. He didn't choose that one though because the peak 6pm tariff could be over £1 a KWH. 

re the comments on surge pricing what do you call the Ryanair model where the price keeps going up as the plane gets fuller? On the last flights I booked there was a big difference between the morning and afternoon flights (but we picked the more expensive one because the time was more convenient).

[hurlerontheditch]

14 hours ago, Will! said:

I had a smart meter fitted last week.  They’re having some trouble configuring it with the nanoprobes in my Covid vaccine within my 15 minute control grid.

watch out for the 6G  in the kettle too

[sexton]

On 16/04/2024 at 15:29, Sackboii said:

Is this what you get daily ? Is there an API to query all this in advance ?

If not, presume it is available to query electronically by even if by crawling a webpage ?

I use Beautiful Soup.

from bs4 import BeautifulSoup
import requests
page = requests.get("https://www.elbruk.se/timpriser-se3-stockholm")
soup = BeautifulSoup(page.content, 'html.parser')

table = soup.find('table', class_='table table-striped mb30') 
output = [] 
for row in table.findAll('tr'): 
    new_row = [] 
    for cell in row.findAll(['td']): 
 
        new_row.append(cell.get_text().strip().replace('\xa0-\xa0','-')) 
    output.append(new_row) 
 
print(output, file=open("output.txt", "a"))
 

[Sackboii]

52 minutes ago, sexton said:

I use Beautiful Soup.

from bs4 import BeautifulSoup
import requests
page = requests.get("https://www.elbruk.se/timpriser-se3-stockholm")
soup = BeautifulSoup(page.content, 'html.parser')

table = soup.find('table', class_='table table-striped mb30') 
output = [] 
for row in table.findAll('tr'): 
    new_row = [] 
    for cell in row.findAll(['td']): 
 
        new_row.append(cell.get_text().strip().replace('\xa0-\xa0','-')) 
    output.append(new_row) 
 
print(output, file=open("output.txt", "a"))
 

Thanks, so the data is available, ‘live’ as it were, on a webpage.

I’d use my own parser however, in my existing home automation system.

[kzb]

On 16/04/2024 at 13:53, Confusion of VIs said:

Ideally these new meters would come with 5kwh of batteries included.

But they won't.  Too expensive to provide to everyone, and more importantly they wouldn't be able to gouge us to quite the same extent.

What a nightmare for working families this is.

[kzb]

On 16/04/2024 at 18:56, fellow said:

The problem is peak demand is work days between 16:00 and 19:00 so those are the times they will want to make more expensive. Nobody is going to choose not to cook dinner or put the telly on when they get home from work just because the price is higher so this will end up being just another money grab.

Got it in one.

[Confusion of VIs]

40 minutes ago, kzb said:

But they won't.  Too expensive to provide to everyone,

You are still living in the past. Batteries are dropping in price almost exactly in line with the "insane" predictions made by Tony Seba back in 2011.  

CATL and BYD are both on a path to decrease battery prices this year by as much as 50%, meaning battery packs at the end of 2024 could cost half what they did at the end of 2023.

40 minutes ago, kzb said:

and more importantly they wouldn't be able to gouge us to quite the same extent.

The gouging is happening because the price of electricity is still linked to global gas prices. That will change.

40 minutes ago, kzb said:

What a nightmare for working families this is.

Only in your imagination.  

On 16/04/2024 at 18:56, fellow said:

The problem is peak demand is work days between 16:00 and 19:00 so those are the times they will want to make more expensive. Nobody is going to choose not to cook dinner or put the telly on when they get home from work just because the price is higher so this will end up being just another money grab.

Dynamic pricing will change that, smoothing out demand and thereby reducing both the amount of electric infrastrure required and wasted renewable power.  So cheaper electricity.

 

[kzb]

 

1 hour ago, Confusion of VIs said:

You are still living in the past. Batteries are dropping in price almost exactly in line with the "insane" predictions made by Tony Seba back in 2011.  

As far as I can see it will cost about £4,000 per home to provide a 5kWh battery.

There's 28.2m homes so that's £113 billion for us to find.  In fact double that if it is as big a screw up as the smart meter programme.

1 hour ago, Confusion of VIs said:

The gouging is happening because the price of electricity is still linked to global gas prices. That will change.

We're paying average of £174/MWh for wind, plus an extra £15 for the additional grid balancing it requires.  It is far more expensive than gas.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Confusion of VIs]

Just now, kzb said:

 

As far as I can see it will cost about £4,000 per home to provide a 5kWh battery.

There's 28.2m homes so that's £113 billion for us to find.  In fact double that if it is as big a screw up as the smart meter programme.

As I said you are living in the past,apparently unable to move on. CATL's new battery is half the price of last years and will last virtually for ever. 

If you read the article I posted you would have seen that by the end of this year

      "a 60 kWh battery that costs manufacturers $6,776.00 today will cost just $3,388"

So a better guess for a mass production 5kwh battery might be $300.  Fitting them to the new generation of smart meters should be a no brainer. 

 

Just now, kzb said:

We're paying average of £174/MWh for wind, plus an extra £15 for the additional grid balancing it requires.  It is far more expensive than gas.

Why are you still banging on about the cost of prototypes?

 

[kzb]

13 minutes ago, Confusion of VIs said:

So a better guess for a mass production 5kwh battery might be $300. 

So you are saying they are available for about $600 now ?  i.e. £482 ?  Have you a link to a UK retailer which shows this?

16 minutes ago, Confusion of VIs said:

Why are you still banging on about the cost of prototypes?

Because it is what we are actually paying, as opposed to some fantasy future price.

[TenYearToGetMyMoneyBack]

5 hours ago, Confusion of VIs said:

As I said you are living in the past,apparently unable to move on. CATL's new battery is half the price of last years and will last virtually for ever. 

      "a 60 kWh battery that costs manufacturers $6,776.00 today will cost just $3,388"

So a better guess for a mass production 5kwh battery might be $300.  Fitting them to the new generation of smart meters should be a no brainer. 

Predictions like that, and the plummeting value of EVs, actually put people like myself off buying something today. 

[14stFlyer]

11 minutes ago, TenYearToGetMyMoneyBack said:

Predictions like that, and the plummeting value of EVs, actually put people like myself off buying something today. 

Absolutely right.  I already have an electric car, but the family have held back from replacing our second car (a small petrol runaround) with a smaller EV (like say a Fiat 500) because we think they should be cheaper.  And are told they will be.

We have also not yet gone for an ASHP despite all recent articles saying they are now superior to gas boilers (and can both heat the house and provide hot enough water), because those same articles talk about how rapidly the quality and reliability of these heat pumps is improving. 

Projections and promises do not encourage purchases.  

[Stewy]

29 minutes ago, 14stFlyer said:

Absolutely right.  I already have an electric car, but the family have held back from replacing our second car (a small petrol runaround) with a smaller EV (like say a Fiat 500) because we think they should be cheaper.  And are told they will be.

We have also not yet gone for an ASHP despite all recent articles saying they are now superior to gas boilers (and can both heat the house and provide hot enough water), because those same articles talk about how rapidly the quality and reliability of these heat pumps is improving. 

Projections and promises do not encourage purchases.  

Also, once everyone has batteries, and the power price has flatlined all day every day, you'll find they are economically useless.

It's why we closed our gas storage facility. The summer/winter gas spreads made it uneconomical to maintain.