Are you in a DINK relationship?

[Lagarde's Drift]

46 minutes ago, fellow said:

So how much should childless couples be forced to pay for your decision to have kids? Should we take more from those selfish single minimum wage workers so you can splash out more of that £60k on yourself?

I dunno, those kids will be paying for our retirements and our healthcare anday even better the ones wiping out bums. Not to mention defending the nation should that happen.

[clarkey]

1 hour ago, fellow said:

So how much should childless couples be forced to pay for your decision to have kids? Should we take more from those selfish single minimum wage workers so you can splash out more of that £60k on yourself?

Same amount I am forced to pay for your said childless couples pension/ nhs treatment etc etc

Edited March 24 by clarkey

[btd1981]

Yes, but a lot of our money now goes towards paying off multiple failed IVF attempts, dogs, and self-medication with alcohol.

The freedom is nice I suppose.

[fellow]

59 minutes ago, Lagarde's Drift said:

I dunno, those kids will be paying for our retirements and our healthcare anday even better the ones wiping out bums. Not to mention defending the nation should that happen.

But this money isn't going to the kids, it's going to the parents. The UK Government borrowed £8bn last month alone so handing out free cash to middle class couples who in no way need it is effectively stealing from our children's future so their parents can enjoy a few more glasses of champagne.

This is a ludicrous situation. I'm all for helping out those in need but we should not be handing out a single penny of benefits to high earners who are more than capable of paying for their own kids. One day the debt pile will become so large that we may not even be able to afford support to those that need it.

Edited March 24 by fellow

[Pmax2020]

2 hours ago, Lagarde's Drift said:

This is a forum that attracts people who value houses primarily by their price in £££ and not as a place to make memories. Who have been wrong for nigh on 20 years, the ones who accept defeat and buy now see another side. Those who are left are miserable and shout at the wind on various threads not just related to house prices. imho.

I think the majority of people here simply want housing to be more affordable for that core reason. To make memories and not spend 60% of your income achieving it. 

[clarkey]

29 minutes ago, fellow said:

But this money isn't going to the kids, it's going to the parents. The UK Government borrowed £8bn last month alone so handing out free cash to middle class couples who in no way need it is effectively stealing from our children's future so their parents can enjoy a few more glasses of champagne.

This is a ludicrous situation. I'm all for helping out those in need but we should not be handing out a single penny of benefits to high earners who are more than capable of paying for their own kids. One day the debt pile will become so large that we may not even be able to afford support to those that need it.

How do you know how much they borrowed unless you have access to their accounts? They also hand out free cash to pensioners who have paid off 1 million plus houses buts that’s ok?
 

Problem is the governments idea of “the rich” is a threshold set 10 years ago now. it’s artificially low to tax as many as possible.
My 60k salary pays towards a 3 bed semi a 10 and 15 year old car and a camping holiday. The child benefit is very useful, helps pay towards food uniform and school supplies, no way am I sipping champagne. 

Edited March 24 by clarkey

[fellow]

15 minutes ago, clarkey said:

How do you know how much they borrowed unless you have access to their accounts? They also hand out free cash to pensioners who have paid off 1 million plus houses buts that’s ok?

It's published every month:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-68610677

 

16 minutes ago, clarkey said:

My 60k salary pays towards a 3 bed semi a 10 and 15 year old car and a camping holiday. The child benefit is very useful, helps pay towards food uniform and school supplies, no way am I sipping champagne. 

I genuinely don't understand where people's money disappears to? It's like there's some black hole sucking cash into it but I never got the memo.

[Nick Cash]

4 hours ago, fellow said:

So how much should childless couples be forced to pay for your decision to have kids? Should we take more from those selfish single minimum wage workers so you can splash out more of that £60k on yourself?

I didn’t know this until I read it in today’s Sunday Times re the French demographic timebomb (similar to ours) but in France there are considerable tax breaks for having kids. Don’t know the figures.

[Unmoderated]

18 hours ago, NoHPCinTheUK said:

I fell DINKers should pay more taxes. 
 

I would be extremely pissed off if my neighbours with no kids go on 2 great holidays every year, nice cars etc. whereas I am devoting most of my income towards raising someone who will probably wipe their arses 40 y from now. The only good thing is probably that those kids will have access to cheap assets, as my neighbours won’t pass them to anyone. 
 

Also, I think most of the reasons people give for being DINKers are just a cover to hide their profound insecurity. 

They do. 

16 hours ago, sell2rent said:

Maybe they do and are net contributors.

They are.

5 hours ago, shlomo said:

You are generalising I say this as an oldie 

Western women generally don’t like nice guys, Eastern European women and Asian women love nice guys, probably because they don’t have benefits and they come from men dominated societies 

I bet this guy will drain Chris Pattens bank balance, the Chinese are loving it, they say he has got his comeuppance 

He is 'living in interesting times'.

5 hours ago, fellow said:

They already do. Parents receive massive tax rebates in the form of child benefit and child tax credits, which is ultimately paid for by those without kids.

True, not to mention school etc. But there's an elephant in the room here........

5 hours ago, clarkey said:

If you call roughly a grand a year across two children massive . Two blazers for school uniform costs about 200 alone. Of course if you do any sort of skilled/proffesional job these days that’s clawed back as someone on 60k is apparently “the rich” . Increased recently thank goodness

I agree with you. It's peanuts. There are people on 60K who get a triple locked universal basic income and none of that is clawed back. Utterly ridiculous state of affairs. Rob from the young who are rearing the next generation and give to the un-deads. 

3 hours ago, Lagarde's Drift said:

I dunno, those kids will be paying for our retirements and our healthcare anday even better the ones wiping out bums. Not to mention defending the nation should that happen.

Yup. The country should invest far more heavily in the next generation instead of chucking money at pensioners, the majority of whom are far wealthier than those being taxed to pay for it all. 

2 hours ago, fellow said:

But this money isn't going to the kids, it's going to the parents. The UK Government borrowed £8bn last month alone so handing out free cash to middle class couples who in no way need it is effectively stealing from our children's future so their parents can enjoy a few more glasses of champagne.

This is a ludicrous situation. I'm all for helping out those in need but we should not be handing out a single penny of benefits to high earners who are more than capable of paying for their own kids. One day the debt pile will become so large that we may not even be able to afford support to those that need it.

If you think that's ludicrous how do you feel about someone on a final salary pension getting a triple locked universal basic income, winter fuel allowance, cold snap payments, free X, Y and Z AND healthcare completely covered?

Define middle class please. Would you agree a retired middle class doesn't require a state pension too?

Would £60K annual income be enough to raise a child? Two children? Four? What if it's split between two earners so there's lower tax? What if they live in Blackpool, or London. 

Here's an idea. Just stop taking benefits away from people who work hard and make the wealthiest in society pay the same marginal tax rates (on a progressive scale) as the poorest. 

[Nick Cash]

7 hours ago, shlomo said:

Why don’t you adopt a child 

I tentatively suggested similar to my wife when we were thinking we could only have 1 child. Worst thing I could have said. Desperately upsetting.

[winkie]

3 minutes ago, Nick Cash said:

I tentatively suggested similar to my wife when we were thinking we could only have 1 child. Worst thing I could have said. Desperately upsetting.

How about fostering, state childcare children's homes are very distressing for children.....

[TenYearToGetMyMoneyBack]

10 hours ago, shlomo said:

Why don’t you adopt a child 

A different neighbour (who unfortunately recently died) adopted a baby when she knew she couldn't have her own children.  That seemed to work out well, with her daughter making sure she was looked after in her old age. From their ages I would guess the adoption was in the 1970s. She knew that the biological mother was 14, and had the adoption arranged before the baby was even born.

Can you imagine that happening these days ? I get the impression that a child has to have 20 visits to A&E in its first three years before social workers start thinking that it might be best if it was looked after by someone other than the natural parents. 

[shlomo]

33 minutes ago, TenYearToGetMyMoneyBack said:

A different neighbour (who unfortunately recently died) adopted a baby when she knew she couldn't have her own children.  That seemed to work out well, with her daughter making sure she was looked after in her old age. From their ages I would guess the adoption was in the 1970s. She knew that the biological mother was 14, and had the adoption arranged before the baby was even born.

Can you imagine that happening these days ? I get the impression that a child has to have 20 visits to A&E in its first three years before social workers start thinking that it might be best if it was looked after by someone other than the natural parents. 

How long can the funding for this continue 

I was told about one of my neighbours who now has mobility issues she was getting pip of £125 per week her claim has been reassessed and she has been told she can work from home and her benefits have been changed to dole only, which according to google is £84 per week 

[IfWeWereVampires]

10 hours ago, Jean-Luc said:

No I feel sorry for you that you think money and material possessions/pursuits come close to providing the same satisfaction as nurturing another person from infant to adulthood.

OK, now I feel sorry that you weren't able to read my post properly. 👍

[Nick Cash]

Best thing about having kids is the nonsense. Reading Astrosaurs for the first time I changed the hero’s name to Iggy Pop. Kept it going for month after month. They never realised until the youngest discovered David Bowie and then Iggy Pop. He was amazed the author had been allowed to use Iggy Pop, then the penny dropped. Iggy the stegosaurus was unmasked he was no longer the drug raddled rock legend. Simply a sad long dead fossil.
 

 

[Grayphil]

I'm in a dual income relationship with 4 kids 

Never enough spare 💰 🤑 💸 

[Quid Game]

We're DINKs. Just had my 9 and 7 year old nieces over to stay for the weekend, and they left a few hours ago. Horrible as it may sound, I could not wait for them to be picked up. They're lovely kids, if a bit (a lot) spoiled, but the constant screaming, dropping things, tantrums because youngest couldn't possibly sleep unless this flipping dinosaur was found and so on so forth... We are early and mid 40's and thought we might have kids one day, but it hasn't happened, and I guess I have certainly now accepted my life as it is given that biology is now very much against us. Do what I want, lie in, go out, get drunk, don't get drunk, whatever. I'm sure if they were my own children I may feel different, but what I am getting at is that at this point in life I am incredibly happy to be child free. Maybe in later life when I am lonely and old I'll regret not having them? I look at it as what if my partner was infertile - maybe she / we are? Would I have left her? No. Children has never meant that much to me. People with children will say it's the best thing that ever happened, and good for you, but there isn't a paternal sinew in my body.

And then there's the money. This is undoubtedly the biggest pro. We are taking home well into six figures between us, and can within reason pretty much spend as we please. Having two adults earning well with only the usual bills coming out is bliss, leaving us about £5k a month after all our standard outgoings like the mortgage are paid. Means we can just do what we please, when we please and only have our cats to worry about who are quite happy left alone for the weekend. It also means my other half can go full bore with the career without worrying about needing time away for maternity and then reduced hours and all the rest of it. Living our best lives really, and will retire wealthy with plenty to pass onto the nieces. Best of both worlds perhaps - a legacy to feed into but none of the hard work creating that except a few weekends a year of pain! 

[Nick Cash]

3 minutes ago, Quid Game said:

We're DINKs. Just had my 9 and 7 year old nieces over to stay for the weekend, and they left a few hours ago. Horrible as it may sound, I could not wait for them to be picked up. They're lovely kids, if a bit (a lot) spoiled, but the constant screaming, dropping things, tantrums because youngest couldn't possibly sleep unless this flipping dinosaur was found and so on so forth... We are early and mid 40's and thought we might have kids one day, but it hasn't happened, and I guess I have certainly now accepted my life as it is given that biology is now very much against us. Do what I want, lie in, go out, get drunk, don't get drunk, whatever. I'm sure if they were my own children I may feel different, but what I am getting at is that at this point in life I am incredibly happy to be child free. Maybe in later life when I am lonely and old I'll regret not having them? I look at it as what if my partner was infertile - maybe she / we are? Would I have left her? No. Children has never meant that much to me. People with children will say it's the best thing that ever happened, and good for you, but there isn't a paternal sinew in my body.

And then there's the money. This is undoubtedly the biggest pro. We are taking home well into six figures between us, and can within reason pretty much spend as we please. Having two adults earning well with only the usual bills coming out is bliss, leaving us about £5k a month after all our standard outgoings like the mortgage are paid. Means we can just do what we please, when we please and only have our cats to worry about who are quite happy left alone for the weekend. It also means my other half can go full bore with the career without worrying about needing time away for maternity and then reduced hours and all the rest of it. Living our best lives really, and will retire wealthy with plenty to pass onto the nieces. Best of both worlds perhaps - a legacy to feed into but none of the hard work creating that except a few weekends a year of pain! 

An honest post. There is no right answer. 
 

But as a growing trend perhaps one to worry about.

[Quid Game]

1 minute ago, Nick Cash said:

An honest post. There is no right answer. 
 

But as a growing trend perhaps one to worry about.

There definitely isn't a right answer. I've not met anybody who wishes they didn't have their children, though they will certainly vow never again or not any more! I think as with many things in life, you sort of set sail towards where you want to be and see who and what you pick up on the way. I've always been very career and milestone driven - chasing promotions, doing extreme sporting events, travelling, being jack the lad. I guess in the world that I created I didn't make any space for anything outside of that - selfish really, but that suited me. Now I've mellowed somewhat and have reached a point whereby I have all the material things I could want, I guess the thought of having children is a bit meh. Some of my social group have kids heading off to uni and leaving home, and they are now struggling with the whole empty nest syndrome as much as anyone who never had kids. Couple of mums I know yearn for the days where they were needed etc.

I saw in the papers recently the stories about declining birth, and it is a multi-faceted thing in my view. Perhaps people can't afford children, but I also think the younger generations are travelling, having experiences and all the rest of it far later into life now, and perhaps have got selfish like me - you think you are going to live forever in your 20's of course. 

[Nick Cash]

6 minutes ago, Quid Game said:

There definitely isn't a right answer. I've not met anybody who wishes they didn't have their children, though they will certainly vow never again or not any more! I think as with many things in life, you sort of set sail towards where you want to be and see who and what you pick up on the way. I've always been very career and milestone driven - chasing promotions, doing extreme sporting events, travelling, being jack the lad. I guess in the world that I created I didn't make any space for anything outside of that - selfish really, but that suited me. Now I've mellowed somewhat and have reached a point whereby I have all the material things I could want, I guess the thought of having children is a bit meh. Some of my social group have kids heading off to uni and leaving home, and they are now struggling with the whole empty nest syndrome as much as anyone who never had kids. Couple of mums I know yearn for the days where they were needed etc.

I saw in the papers recently the stories about declining birth, and it is a multi-faceted thing in my view. Perhaps people can't afford children, but I also think the younger generations are travelling, having experiences and all the rest of it far later into life now, and perhaps have got selfish like me - you think you are going to live forever in your 20's of course. 

Like you I spent my early adult life doing what I wanted. Then, out of the blue, I met my wife. Our first was born 18 months after we met. A major life change. 
 

I decided I’d give my kids the parenting that I’d never had. Stopped work. Never regretted it. My youngest goes off to university this year. Can’t wait! I need a holiday.

[mynamehere]

13 minutes ago, Quid Game said:

 

 Perhaps people can't afford children, but I also think the younger generations are travelling, having experiences and all the rest of it far later into life now, and perhaps have got selfish like me - you think you are going to live forever in your 20's of course. 

I don't think this is the reason, the correlation between low income and high birth rate is very strong.

The research argues t's a wash for most people. pros and cons of kids generally equal out and you will likely be about as happy either way. Things like income are much stronger indicators of happiness, kids or no

 

[A.steve]

1 minute ago, mynamehere said:

Quote

Perhaps people can't afford children

I don't think this is the reason, the correlation between low income and high birth rate is very strong.

I think it's complicated.  People who accept being poor can afford children... they've nothing to lose.  Accepting your lot and not worrying for the future (because that can always sort itself out) will correlate with more births.  On the other hand, if one is dissatisfied (either as a result of unrealistic aspirations - or accurate assessment) and one insists upon pursuing something better... this will correlate with other life choices.  If one refuses to accept one's station in life... it is very, very, hard to change it... If one is eventually successful... much of life has passed by anyhow.

Poor people, whose dissatisfaction relates to absent wealth... in all likelihood... will not have what's classed as "low income"... because they will seek to address the most obvious of their problems.  Time marches on, of course... and when dissatisfaction extends beyond mere income... and includes missed social opportunities and failing ambitions relating to personal relationships... perhaps no satisfactory resolution is possible in a lifetime. In a society with ubiquitous poverty... it's easy to accept living such a reality. If one recognises others live in different (superior) realities, perhaps one doesn't accept the lot one drew - and one doesn't perpetuate it to the next generation?

[sta100]

On 3/23/2024 at 9:09 PM, NoHPCinTheUK said:

I fell DINKers should pay more taxes. 
 

I would be extremely pissed off if my neighbours with no kids go on 2 great holidays every year, nice cars etc. whereas I am devoting most of my income towards raising someone who will probably wipe their arses 40 y from now. The only good thing is probably that those kids will have access to cheap assets, as my neighbours won’t pass them to anyone. 
 

Also, I think most of the reasons people give for being DINKers are just a cover to hide their profound insecurity. 

Lol

So many raising useless people and it's the ones who aren't inflicting entitled mini-me's on the rest of the World that you're bothered about.

You've lived your entire life on the suffering of billions of other people yet somehow feel like you've made some kind of sacrifice because you can't go on a couple of holidays every year.

I'm sure your offspring won't have to wipe people backsides unlike all the tens of millions of people that currently do this for a lowly paid living while you sit around complaining on forums.

Lots of people have been devoting their time to creating robots which are far more promising to the human race than whatever it is you've created. We need things on this earth which don't have a sense of entitlement to support the far too many existing things which do.

Edited March 25 by sta100

[Stewy]

7 hours ago, mynamehere said:

I don't think this is the reason, the correlation between low income and high birth rate is very strong.

The research argues t's a wash for most people. pros and cons of kids generally equal out and you will likely be about as happy either way. Things like income are much stronger indicators of happiness, kids or no

 

I agree. We're richer than ever. It's richer people and countries that are having fewer kids. 

[winkie]

41 minutes ago, Stewy said:

I agree. We're richer than ever. It's richer people and countries that are having fewer kids. 

Yes, could be expecting their money to support them.....less well off have hopefully got their kids....can you imagine how it must feel to have neither and have to be reliant on the state, not very reassuring.