Are Britain's planned 15-minute cities effectively 15-minute control grids?

[Bob8]

7 minutes ago, nightowl said:

But the 'uniqueness' is some people look wider than the narrow limited story the msm present and end up on places like here.

Don't forget the whole premise of HPC is noting a group of organisations with limited accountability have allowed property prices to spiral out of control.  Is that a conspiracy site definition of which you're an active member?

If you wanted to know why house prices are so high would you amalgamate views in here or solely rely on the BBC say as many 'un-unique' people do?

The MSM is not where the meaningful debate is. When it comes to transport planning and vaccine science, you are excluded from the conversation. I am excluded from the debate on transport planning. The debates on both are in the science and the industries. We are excluded from them in the same way that I am excluded from the Olympics, I lack the wherewithal to give a meaningful contribution. Normally, people can accept this.

[Lagarde's Drift]

On 30/06/2023 at 09:11, miguel said:

Well they won't restrict me to their 15 minute cities. I'll get on my (acoustic) bike. I travelled 22 miles yesterday and 22 miles back. I live in a dense urban environment and 38 of those 44 miles were separated from road traffic (dedicated cycle lane and canal). I'm mid 60's but on my journey I met a woman who is 78 on an ebike, she was doing a 60 miles round trip to see a relative. As she said 'the hills just disappear'. One of those ebike thingies might just come into the picture in a few years time. 

I'm in a 15 minute zone already and have been for many years. Two supermarkets within a 15 minute walk, docs, pharmacists, post office, local shops. It's pretty much how things used to be in the good ol days of the 50's and 60's. It's just that the butcher, greengrocer and local hardware shop has gone. The one thing that really has changed is the horrendous traffic and the pollution. My street has very high pollution levels, a combination of being surrounded by dual carriageways and some sort of funnelling effect. The good news is my doc said that I have the BP of a fit 20 y.o. and low cholesterol. I put that down to walking everywhere. Started walking to the local primary school at 5 years old and continued to a much longer walk (1 1/2 miles) to the upper school. 

Hehehe I'm the same I love where I live which has off road cycle paths into the city centre, 3 large supermarkets post office grocers butchers hardware stores and even a motor factors plus everything else all within 15 mins walk or 7 min toodle on the bike. Quality of fresh meat and veg is amazing. I even have 2 Gregg's for those inclined that way. And about 10 pubs altho I think that's excessive. Plus loads of green space. People who are anti 15min dunno what they're missing. 

I used to drive to those horrid business parks to go to a massive Tesco b&q etc. Haven't done so for many years and it's lovely.

Edit just remembered fishmongers is 40mins walk away but I just cycle there every few months to load up.

Edited July 1, 2023 by Lagarde's Drift

[Freki]

1 hour ago, stuckmojo said:

The leash is about to tighten. 

They'll get you via convenience a d then you'll have no choice and will be blackmailed 

Who is they? 

[Brendan110_0]

15 minute cities only work if developed that way from scratch. Can't just throw a border over and say take it, I'd be setting politicians on fire.

Never going to happen.

[Bob8]

6 minutes ago, Brendan110_0 said:

15 minute cities only work if developed that way from scratch. Can't just throw a border over and say take it, I'd be setting politicians on fire.

Never going to happen.

Again, this is assuming it is about putting up borders. It misses the point.

[Arpeggio]

2 hours ago, Bob8 said:

I had a discussion on Arpeggio on another thread. I had suggested about a year ago that if he were worried about vaccines, he should be concerned with the quality in the manufacutring facilities rather than the platform technology. This was ignored, until published in the Daily Skeptic, a niche National Enquirer

https://dailysceptic.org/2023/06/28/pfizer-vaccine-batches-in-the-eu-were-placebos-say-scientists/

This tells you the sort of place they are getting their info.

You think bringing your lying from another thread helps you.

 

2 hours ago, Smith said:

🤣 The irony of being called a time waster by someone who posts looooong chaotic rants full of quotes from irrelevant conspiracy nonsense is not lost on me!

You specifically were asked     1     2     3     times to give examples of your "far-fetched nonsense" accusations.

When you finally answer, you fail to come up with an actual example while having played the idiot and wasting everyone's time over "permit allowance"

......now you are repeating the same nonsense about "looooong chaotic rants about irrelevant conspiracy nonsense" and getting replied to with 3 paragraphs.

[Si1]

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/jul/14/councillors-support-ltns-election-impact-research

 

[Dyson Fury]

1 hour ago, Si1 said:

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/jul/14/councillors-support-ltns-election-impact-research

 

That article is absurd.  "Research" into whether councillors tweeting in support of LTNs affected their support at the ballot box, when they clearly state at the beginning that no Conservative councillors in London tweeted in support of LTNs. 

They obviously did not look at the 2023 Council Election results in Canterbury, where the Conservatives who had proposed the notorious "traffic zoning" scheme lost 15 of their 23 seats, and Council Leader Ben Fitter-Harding (the leading proponent of the scheme) spectacularly lost his seat in the ultra-safe true-blue ward of Chestfield.  Note that he only received 3/4 of the personal votes of his fellow Conservative candidate.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2023_Canterbury_City_Council_election

[Jean-Luc]

20 minutes ago, Dyson Fury said:

That article is absurd.  "Research" into whether councillors tweeting in support of LTNs affected their support at the ballot box, when they clearly state at the beginning that no Conservative councillors in London tweeted in support of LTNs. 

They obviously did not look at the 2023 Council Election results in Canterbury, where the Conservatives who had proposed the notorious "traffic zoning" scheme lost 15 of their 23 seats, and Council Leader Ben Fitter-Harding (the leading proponent of the scheme) spectacularly lost his seat in the ultra-safe true-blue ward of Chestfield.  Note that he only received 3/4 of the personal votes of his fellow Conservative candidate.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2023_Canterbury_City_Council_election

Just a propaganda piece to make you think if you oppose this nonsense then you are an outlier or in the minority. The NPC's here on HPC just lap it up lol

MSM = utter dog sh*te garbage

Edited July 14, 2023 by daveyj

[stuckmojo]

4 minutes ago, daveyj said:

Just a propaganda piece to make you think if you oppose this nonsense then you are an outlier or in the minority. The NPC's here on HPC just lap it up lol

MSM = utter dog sh*te garbage

This 

[Si1]

39 minutes ago, Dyson Fury said:

That article is absurd.  "Research" into whether councillors tweeting in support of LTNs affected their support at the ballot box, when they clearly state at the beginning that no Conservative councillors in London tweeted in support of LTNs. 

They obviously did not look at the 2023 Council Election results in Canterbury, where the Conservatives who had proposed the notorious "traffic zoning" scheme lost 15 of their 23 seats, and Council Leader Ben Fitter-Harding (the leading proponent of the scheme) spectacularly lost his seat in the ultra-safe true-blue ward of Chestfield.  Note that he only received 3/4 of the personal votes of his fellow Conservative candidate.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2023_Canterbury_City_Council_election

Because the Tories are doing so well these days anyway.

[kzb]

2 minutes ago, Si1 said:

Because the Tories are doing so well these days anyway.

I think you've answered your own point there. 

If the only candidate not supporting the LTN is a Tory, it means the only way of expressing opposition is by voting Tory.

Hence the ridiculous study in the Guardian, trying to turn that into an argument for backing LTNs.

[Si1]

13 minutes ago, kzb said:

I think you've answered your own point there. 

If the only candidate not supporting the LTN is a Tory, it means the only way of expressing opposition is by voting Tory.

Hence the ridiculous study in the Guardian, trying to turn that into an argument for backing LTNs.

 

[yodigo]

On 18/05/2023 at 14:46, scottbeard said:

Quite a relief to see 99% of posters on this thread agreeing that having most of what you need less than 15 minutes away is in fact utopia and not dystopia.

No is imprisoning anyone in cities.

The lunatics who said “COVID restrictions will never be lifted, you’ll see” have been forced to change their tune when they were lifted : the new tune is “ah they were just a test, you’ll see”

Perish the thought that COVID restrictions were a simply temporary response to a temporary threat; or that planning cities well just leads to well-planned cities.

Yes, it's great actually.

The problem comes if it comes with restrictions on things you'd rather not be restricted on. On street parking being squeezed out, which is happening, being one. There is danger in them, no doubt, if the wrong MPs etc decide it to be so.

Edited July 14, 2023 by yodigo

[kzb]

8 minutes ago, yodigo said:

Yes, it's great actually.

The problem comes if it comes with restrictions on things you'd rather not be restricted on. On street parking being squeezed out, which is happening, being one. There is danger in them, no doubt, if the wrong MPs etc decide it to be so.

Meanwhile back in the real world, it has just been on TV that people are travelling hundreds of miles for dental care.

Boots is closing 300 stores because they say they are within x miles of another store.

Banks are continuing to close branches.

On top of that, an economist would make mincemeat of this concept with its effect on prices and incomes.

[The Spaniard]

57 minutes ago, daveyj said:

Just a propaganda piece to make you think if you oppose this nonsense then you are an outlier or in the minority. The NPC's here on HPC just lap it up lol

MSM = utter dog sh*te garbage

Indeed, and it seems that the more the propaganda is perceived as such, the more absurd it becomes.

Positive feedback loop into irrelevance?

[kzb]

3 minutes ago, The Spaniard said:

Indeed, and it seems that the more the propaganda is perceived as such, the more absurd it becomes.

Positive feedback loop into irrelevance?

You would hope so, but people these days are so gullible.

[yodigo]

6 minutes ago, kzb said:

Meanwhile back in the real world, it has just been on TV that people are travelling hundreds of miles for dental care.

Boots is closing 300 stores because they say they are within x miles of another store.

Banks are continuing to close branches.

On top of that, an economist would make mincemeat of this concept with its effect on prices and incomes.

lol, I do live in area that's in effect a 15 minute city, not by design exactly, more how it worked out, and it's brilliant. The area is currently booming (good or bad as that maybe)

[kzb]

12 minutes ago, yodigo said:

lol, I do live in area that's in effect a 15 minute city, not by design exactly, more how it worked out, and it's brilliant. The area is currently booming (good or bad as that maybe)

Tell us what you've got then.

[Si1]

14 minutes ago, yodigo said:

lol, I do live in area that's in effect a 15 minute city, not by design exactly, more how it worked out, and it's brilliant. The area is currently booming (good or bad as that maybe)

Same here.

I do accept people's right to live in a more car oriented place too. Choice is a thing.

[kzb]

26 minutes ago, Si1 said:

Same here.

I do accept people's right to live in a more car oriented place too. Choice is a thing.

Again, tell us what stores and services are within a 15 minute walk.

NHS dentist?  GP ?  Banks? Post Office?

Which supermarkets?  Home Bargains ? B&M ?  Boots ?  M&S ?...etc.

And do you work within 15 minutes, and if you do, what if you want a job elsewhere?

Edited July 14, 2023 by kzb

[Si1]

5 minutes ago, kzb said:

Again, tell us what stores and services are within a 15 minute walk.

NHS dentist?  GP ?  Banks? Post Office?

Which supermarkets?  Home Bargains ? B&M ?  Boots ?  M&S ?...etc.

And do you work within 15 minutes, and if you do, what if you want a job elsewhere?

Secondary schools and work are not within that distance.

But:

NHS dentist? Check

GP ? Check

Banks? A small number, maybe just the one actually , a Halifax. but they're online anyway these days.

Post Office? Check 

Which supermarkets?  Home Bargains ? B&M ?  Boots ?  M&S ?...etc.

Boots, superdrug, Tesco, Morrisons, Aldi, poundstretcher, 

Park. Swimming pool. Library. Check

 

 

the clear drawback is it's densely built up, luckily parking isn't a problem, although I can see how it could become one

[Bob8]

1 hour ago, Si1 said:

Same here.

I do accept people's right to live in a more car oriented place too. Choice is a thing.

Yes, of course. Sort of.

When we say "car orientated" we are talking about putting the car first. Which really means that you require a car to get to everything easily. Which means everyone has to drive everywhere, which means congestion. And even if it does not required congestion, you are accepting poor air quality, traffic noise and the danger of cars with limited chances for kids to roam free and play outside.

Of course, it can be suggested that "car orientated" does not mean "car compulsary", which leads us to 15 minute cities and apparently lizard-people pedophiles or something.

[Si1]

20 minutes ago, Bob8 said:

Yes, of course. Sort of.

When we say "car orientated" we are talking about putting the car first. Which really means that you require a car to get to everything easily. Which means everyone has to drive everywhere, which means congestion. And even if it does not required congestion, you are accepting poor air quality, traffic noise and the danger of cars with limited chances for kids to roam free and play outside.

 

Oh I agree. Everyone confined their own overprotected suburban garden and the kids grow up with social anxiety disorder. Occasional car trips to a shopping centre.

Edited July 14, 2023 by Si1

[Gbob]

Meanwhile.....