Si1 Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 3 minutes ago, miguel said: I'm VERY green by incidence of poverty (lol). I do have a London mate who is a real green warrior. He's retired but takes 3 or 4 holidays every single year. Oz and the US are regular flight spots. I take the pss out of him. His only justification is . . . 'but I don't own a car'. Yeah right. My sis in law, who's lovely and not a green warrior per se, does bang on about her recycling and organic vegetable patch and greenness. And commutes 250 miles a week, has at least two unneeded spare rooms to heat and 3 foreign holidays a year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nightowl Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, Si1 said: Agreed. But I can do without the middle class moralising. "I like walking the dogs and I drive a land rover therefore I'm green" It's like a greeny I used to know who had four kids but not accepting that put more pressure on world resources. To be fair to said person they were of a genuine worrier about green issues rather than a virtue signaller type. Edited June 30, 2023 by nightowl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nightowl Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 3 hours ago, Si1 said: Leeds council has started to identify and promote 15 minute neighbourhoods. That is all all or most of your amenities within about a 15 minute walk. The exceptions being high schools and jobs. That's hard to enforce in a big city. These are basically here anyway owing to passably sensible long term planning (except for local public transport which is a mess but that's another story). I live smack bang in one and it's so damn handy being able to be get to Aldi, Tesco, the park, swimming pool, gym, post office, Poundland, cafe, pub, Yadda Yadda all in a 10 minute walk (where I am). The price you pay for being IN one is denser housing and less parking, and a greater proportion of communal space, which some right wingers think is a socialist conspiracy, but I just count the advantages and the easier pace of life. I just find the way people think everything that people dont share the 'approved view' on a subject are in someways either conspiracy or right wing. It's bonkers and become the standard retort to anything now 😆 The whole 15m city idea is clearly real and not a conspiracy. 😆 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nightowl Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 (edited) 3 hours ago, Si1 said: Leeds council has started to identify and promote 15 minute neighbourhoods. That is all all or most of your amenities within about a 15 minute walk. The exceptions being high schools and jobs. That's hard to enforce in a big city. These are basically here anyway owing to passably sensible long term planning (except for local public transport which is a mess but that's another story). I live smack bang in one and it's so damn handy being able to be get to Aldi, Tesco, the park, swimming pool, gym, post office, Poundland, cafe, pub, Yadda Yadda all in a 10 minute walk (where I am). The price you pay for being IN one is denser housing and less parking, and a greater proportion of communal space, which some right wingers think is a socialist conspiracy, but I just count the advantages and the easier pace of life. . 😆pan widget geez deleted. Browser and server comms failure in full effect! Edited June 30, 2023 by nightowl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winkie Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 3 hours ago, Si1 said: Denser housing arrangements have much lower carbon and ecological footprints, that is they are much more environmentally friendly, than less dense suburban or rural ones, per capita Vocal public environmentalist celebs like George Monbiot and Sarah Beeney living in their refurbished farmhouses in the countryside actually have large environmental footprints what with all that driving 5 miles to the local shop and massive square footage to maintain and heat. Less dense doesn't mean bigger property, finca sized, room to grow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smith Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 5 hours ago, nightowl said: I just find the way people think everything that people dont share the 'approved view' on a subject are in someways either conspiracy or right wing. It's bonkers and become the standard retort to anything now 😆 The whole 15m city idea is clearly real and not a conspiracy. 😆 The concept of 15 minute cities is clearly real. Are you saying that means everything people say about them must be true? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nightowl Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 14 minutes ago, Smith said: The concept of 15 minute cities is clearly real. Are you saying that means everything people say about them must be true? Nope I'm saying they are real and not a conspiracy. The other thing is im drawing attention to how "conspiracy" and "right wing" are used to label anyone who isn't on board with the idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob8 Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 4 minutes ago, nightowl said: Nope I'm saying they are real and not a conspiracy. The other thing is im drawing attention to how "conspiracy" and "right wing" are used to label anyone who isn't on board with the idea. Yes. I live in a village. I do not really have to leave it unless I choose to. I do so for work. Are you OK with that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smith Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 15 minutes ago, nightowl said: Nope I'm saying they are real and not a conspiracy. The other thing is im drawing attention to how "conspiracy" and "right wing" are used to label anyone who isn't on board with the idea. It's not so much people who aren't "on board with the idea" as those making up far-fetched nonsense about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpeggio Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 2 minutes ago, Bob8 said: Yes. I live in a village. I do not really have to leave it unless I choose to. I do so for work. Are you OK with that? No, not really. We need to surveil you and relay to a central database each time you go out of your zone, and to know why you are doing so, in order to tally it on your permit allowance. I don't know why you are so hell bent on your over simplistic "I do not really have to leave it unless I choose to." as though that should be an option. 9 minutes ago, Smith said: It's not so much people who aren't "on board with the idea" as those making up far-fetched nonsense about it. Examples please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freki Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 3 posters embracing conspiracy theories in a day, I call bingo first Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smith Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 43 minutes ago, Arpeggio said: No, not really. We need to surveil you and relay to a central database each time you go out of your zone, and to know why you are doing so, in order to tally it on your permit allowance. I don't know why you are so hell bent on your over simplistic "I do not really have to leave it unless I choose to." as though that should be an option. Examples please. Example from your own post as I don't have the energy to scroll back through this tedious thread, in which I'm sure they'll be plenty more examples: "permit allowance". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpeggio Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 6 minutes ago, Smith said: Example from your own post as I don't have the energy to scroll back through this tedious thread, in which I'm sure they'll be plenty more examples: "permit allowance". Yes permit allowance. You will be sent a fine through the post if you breach your permit allowance. 15 minute city policy. One more chance. Please answer the question ⬇️ 1 hour ago, Smith said: It's not so much people who aren't "on board with the idea" as those making up far-fetched nonsense about it. Examples please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smith Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 4 minutes ago, Arpeggio said: Yes permit allowance. You will be sent a fine through the post if you breach your permit allowance. 15 minute city policy. One more chance. Please answer the question ⬇️ Examples please. Do you have a link to official information about these fines for breaching your permit allowance? I've already answered this question if you look back. Try to keek up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smith Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 I tried Googling "15 minute city permit allowance" but all that came up was this article: https://www.euronews.com/green/2023/02/21/what-is-a-15-minute-city-the-eco-concept-that-has-been-jumped-on-by-conspiracy-theorists Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpeggio Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Smith said: Do you have a link to official information about these fines for breaching your permit allowance? https://www.oxfordshire.gov.uk/residents/roads-and-transport/connecting-oxfordshire/traffic-filters 11 minutes ago, Smith said: I've already answered this question if you look back. Try to keek up. Please show me. 7 minutes ago, Smith said: I tried Googling "15 minute city permit allowance" but all that came up was this article: https://www.euronews.com/green/2023/02/21/what-is-a-15-minute-city-the-eco-concept-that-has-been-jumped-on-by-conspiracy-theorists I am sorry that you need to rely on Googling and I hope that eventually you can give some examples of the "far-fetched nonsense" you refer to. Edited June 30, 2023 by Arpeggio Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smith Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 3 minutes ago, Arpeggio said: https://www.oxfordshire.gov.uk/residents/roads-and-transport/connecting-oxfordshire/traffic-filters Thanks. These traffic filters sound like a really good idea to stop local roads being used as rat runs. Good to keep them clear for buses and cyclists. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nightowl Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 9 minutes ago, Smith said: I tried Googling "15 minute city permit allowance" but all that came up was this article: https://www.euronews.com/green/2023/02/21/what-is-a-15-minute-city-the-eco-concept-that-has-been-jumped-on-by-conspiracy-theorists It's not too hard to find their plan. The city is divided up I to certain zone and passing through certain 'filters' between the zones requires permits to pass through. The advocates of the idea tend to avoid the subject of how you ensure people don't exceed their quota but we know how that will end up... Each zone equates to the 15min zone concept. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smith Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 (edited) 1 minute ago, nightowl said: It's not too hard to find their plan. The city is divided up I to certain zone and passing through certain 'filters' between the zones requires permits to pass through. The advocates of the idea tend to avoid the subject of how you ensure people don't exceed their quota but we know how that will end up... Each zone equates to the 15min zone concept. Yes, I know. It seems like a very sensible plan to achieve the aims set out in the document Arpeggio kindly shared. Edited June 30, 2023 by Smith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpeggio Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 Just now, Smith said: Thanks. These traffic filters sound like a really good idea to stop local roads being used as rat runs. Good to keep them clear for buses and cyclists. I am glad you are up to scratch now. Your original question was specifically regarding ⬇️ 27 minutes ago, Arpeggio said: Yes permit allowance. You will be sent a fine through the post if you breach your permit allowance. 15 minute city policy. 23 minutes ago, Smith said: Do you have a link to official information about these fines for breaching your permit allowance? Now that you feel I have satisfactorily answered your question, for the 4th time, would you please answer the question.... 1 hour ago, Smith said: It's not so much people who aren't "on board with the idea" as those making up far-fetched nonsense about it. Examples please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve99 Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 50 minutes ago, Arpeggio said: Yes permit allowance. You will be sent a fine through the post if you breach your permit allowance. 15 minute city policy. One more chance. Please answer the question ⬇️ Examples please. Where did this info come from? and which city? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve99 Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 32 minutes ago, Smith said: Thanks. These traffic filters sound like a really good idea to stop local roads being used as rat runs. Good to keep them clear for buses and cyclists. x10 and that is their ONLY purpose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nightowl Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 24 minutes ago, Smith said: Yes, I know. It seems like a very sensible plan to achieve the aims set out in the document Arpeggio kindly shared. The problem is to do with the concept of permits to travel through at certain times... especially the way this can be enforced. More cameras, linked to more fines (which are never discussed) and and these zones being linked to the concept of 15minute zones. Before now no through roads or local traffic only roads already exist but they haven't restricted people living in that area. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smith Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 6 minutes ago, nightowl said: The problem is to do with the concept of permits to travel through at certain times... especially the way this can be enforced. More cameras, linked to more fines (which are never discussed) and and these zones being linked to the concept of 15minute zones. Before now no through roads or local traffic only roads already exist but they haven't restricted people living in that area. "Being linked" by whom? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpeggio Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 Just now, steve99 said: Where did this info come from? and which city? It's on the link Smith seems very pleased with. Please keep up. 23 minutes ago, Arpeggio said: Now that you feel I have satisfactorily answered your question, for the 4th time, would you please answer the question.... lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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