Are Britain's planned 15-minute cities effectively 15-minute control grids?

[kzb]

45 minutes ago, Mrs Doyle said:

Absolutely, yes

It's only wrong in the sense that I can choose to pay £70 for crossings in excess of 100 per year.  Or that I can cross outside the hours that the scheme operates.  Or that I have to drive out of the city and back in again, adding a lot of time and expense to the journey.

As I said, I've no local knowledge but I imagine the filter points have been chosen precisely to make it awkward to go on popular journeys.  With the effects that I mentioned, like not being able to take advantage of market forces so easily.

Also I am still waiting for how it is going to be ensured that all services will be present within a 15 minute walk.  At present I cannot see how that can work in a free market economy.

 

Edited May 28, 2023 by kzb

[Arpeggio]

2 hours ago, Bob8 said:

Whereas the road network grew organically from the soil?

Jeez, you are thick.

I drive my car to some soil somewhere in the middle of nowhere all the time.There's nothing around me and it's pointless but good god am I p*ssed off someone didn't build a road for the journey.

Although some roads do lead to fields and similar, I find most of them also lead to other things which are of various use too, much of which did not grow from the soil either. Infact, the car didn't grow out of the soil when coming to think about it.

You've got me fuming now.

2 hours ago, daveyj said:

Why would I not fear being unable to drive where I want when I want? WTF is so loony about that?

Honestly whats with all the a*sewipes that have a fetish for ever more restrictions and ever bigger government controls?

You lot are the lunatics... govern me harder daddy indeed! Weirdos.

Yeah but soil yeah.

Edited May 28, 2023 by Arpeggio

[14stFlyer]

8 hours ago, The Angry Capitalist said:

Superior in what ways?

Faster, smoother, quieter, more efficient, less moving parts so less servicing required, cheaper to run, etc.  

[Freki]

Just now, 14stFlyer said:

Faster, smoother, quieter, more efficient, less moving parts so less servicing required, cheaper to run, etc.  

But you can't do your daily commute Glasgow to London without recharging 25 min

[14stFlyer]

8 hours ago, The Angry Capitalist said:

If it's cheaper and quicker to use the car then people will choose that option.

Agree completely.  And this is why designing our cities and towns around cars rather than humans is so perverse.  It actively encourages car use by making cars the quickest and cheapest option for many journeys that should be cheaper and/or faster by other means. 

[14stFlyer]

8 hours ago, winkie said:

Not everyone lives near a train station, not the busses to serve it.....who would want to cycle six or eight miles home when got off the train at 6.30pm?.......take more than 15 mins, add that twice a day to journey time......dark wet and cold winters you know.

Agree with you Winkie.  There will always be a place for private cars, and living 6 or 8 miles from the nearest town and not having a reliable bus service are good examples.  However in my home town, or indeed in Oxford, that is simply not the position. 

[14stFlyer]

9 minutes ago, Freki said:

But you can't do your daily commute Glasgow to London without recharging 25 min

True. 

[winkie]

12 hours ago, 14stFlyer said:

Agree with you Winkie.  There will always be a place for private cars, and living 6 or 8 miles from the nearest town and not having a reliable bus service are good examples.  However in my home town, or indeed in Oxford, that is simply not the position. 

Actually I don't like or appreciate people telling others what they should do and shouldn't do, driving a car on a public road is not illegal......nobody wants to live in a cage full of surveillance cameras.

[Mrs Doyle]

18 hours ago, kzb said:

It's only wrong in the sense that I can choose to pay £70 for crossings in excess of 100 per year.  Or that I can cross outside the hours that the scheme operates.  Or that I have to drive out of the city and back in again, adding a lot of time and expense to the journey.

As I said, I've no local knowledge but I imagine the filter points have been chosen precisely to make it awkward to go on popular journeys.  With the effects that I mentioned, like not being able to take advantage of market forces so easily.

Also I am still waiting for how it is going to be ensured that all services will be present within a 15 minute walk.  At present I cannot see how that can work in a free market economy.

 

God help the terminally stupid. 

[Arpeggio]

23 hours ago, kzb said:

Then...

So I'm not a muppet, I am correct.  If you want to drive between zones you have to drive out of the city and back in again.  It tells us this in the very material you posted.  An extra 5 miles or so through an undoubtedly congested route.

I also take issue with this:

So how exactly is this going to happen in a free-market economy ?  You've not told us this yet.

I want to know how you are going to enforce the presence of banks, post offices, NHS dentists, GPs, and a competitive retail sector in each zone.  

What legal powers will the local council have to achieve this?  Does their authority come above that of the NHS, the banks and the big supermarkets ?

Maybe this other thread might converge a little with this one?;

Rishi Sunak will ask stores to cap basic food prices

 

22 minutes ago, Mrs Doyle said:

God help the terminally stupid. 

May Rishi Sunak cap the price of Cream Tea & Scones round Mrs. Doyle's specific to her zone.

Edited May 29, 2023 by Arpeggio

[kzb]

17 hours ago, 14stFlyer said:

Agree completely.  And this is why designing our cities and towns around cars rather than humans is so perverse.  It actively encourages car use by making cars the quickest and cheapest option for many journeys that should be cheaper and/or faster by other means. 

An economist would have a field day with these schemes.

The car has enabled consumers vastly more choice in where they source goods and services.  Yes, it has also enabled centralisation and cost-shifting.

A bank can now say we are closing Branch X but all our faithful customers can use Branch Y just 4 miles away.  Supermarkets rely on cars (at present online grocery shopping is being subsidised by about £25 per delivery), but they also have driven down prices enormously.

[Jean-Luc]

17 hours ago, 14stFlyer said:

Faster, smoother, quieter, more efficient, less moving parts so less servicing required, cheaper to run, etc.  

Faster... Well no. AFAIK all cars are supposed to follow the same speed limits.

Smoother... My mondeo was a much smoother ride over our crap roads than the tesla was.

Quieter... The road noise in the model 3 was atrocious so no not really.

More efficient... In what sense that I would actually give a sh*t about?

Less moving parts/servicing... Probably the only actual tangible benefit you have mentioned.

Cheaper to run... Well depends https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/news/electric-vehicles-news/cost-of-rapid-charging-an-electric-car-up-50-in-eight-months/

If I had to rely on public rapid chargers it would cost more per mile than an efficient petrol or diesel to run. Not to mention insurance tends to be more expensive for EV's.

Quote

Drivers using rapid chargers now pay 20p per mile for their electricity, only a penny less than those using less common ultra-rapid chargers who pay 21p per mile.3

These costs are higher than the equivalent per-mile rate for a petrol car that achieves an economy of 40 miles to the gallon (17p per mile) and are on a par with a diesel car achieving the same economy (20p per mile).

Between that and the increased initial outlay to actually purchase an EV vs ICE they are not really cheaper over the term most people are likely to drive the car even when charging from home.

 

Edited May 29, 2023 by daveyj

[kzb]

34 minutes ago, Mrs Doyle said:

God help the terminally stupid. 

I'm sorry but it is these very details which sink these grandiose schemes.  The globalist-lead state sector does not live in the same world as ordinary people and it shows.

Stop trying to punish the very people paying the taxes to keep you in your job, and start trying to make their lives better.  Otherwise it is going to blow up in your face at some point in the future.

[Jean-Luc]

5 hours ago, winkie said:

Actually I don't like or appreciate people telling others what they should do and shouldn't do, driving a car on a public road is not illegal......nobody wants to live in a cage full of surveillance cameras.

Seems there are more than a few morons on this thread who do. And you are a terminally stupid conspiracy loon for thinking otherwise 😂

Edited May 29, 2023 by daveyj

[Mrs Doyle]

1 hour ago, daveyj said:

Seems there are more than a few morons on this thread who do. And you are a terminally stupid conspiracy loon for thinking otherwise 😂

Kzb is a terminally stupid conspiracy loon because he rejects objective evidence preferring to stick with completely discredited misinformation other conspiracy loons have fed him. 

Not only that, he is completely adverse to logic and rational thought. 

Edited May 29, 2023 by Mrs Doyle
Edit

[Mrs Doyle]

1 hour ago, kzb said:

I'm sorry but it is these very details which sink these grandiose schemes.  The globalist-lead state sector does not live in the same world as ordinary people and it shows.

Stop trying to punish the very people paying the taxes to keep you in your job, and start trying to make their lives better.  Otherwise it is going to blow up in your face at some point in the future.

How is Oxfordshire County Council 'globalist-lead'? 

[kzb]

10 minutes ago, Mrs Doyle said:

How is Oxfordshire County Council 'globalist-lead'? 

The fact that they are wheeling out such schemes means they are.

I've not noticed millions of people marching to demand 15 minute cities.  There is no popular movement behind it.  It has come down from on top, from the reptilian elites.

[nightowl]

14 minutes ago, Mrs Doyle said:

How is Oxfordshire County Council 'globalist-lead'? 

I'm fairly sure the WEF had features on their webpage about the 15m city idea so quite open about it there. As @kzb says the idea is not an upwards grassroots idea.

[Mrs Doyle]

42 minutes ago, kzb said:

The fact that they are wheeling out such schemes means they are.

I've not noticed millions of people marching to demand 15 minute cities.  There is no popular movement behind it.  It has come down from on top, from the reptilian elites.

Lol. 

You sound batshit mental. 

OCC councillors were elected on a mandate in local elections and OCC is currently a coalition

They put the 15 min neighbourhoods idea in their 2040 plan. 

There has been local elections since that plan and the anti LTN/traffic filter/15min cities brigade candidates lost. 

So, I'll call. Who are these 'globalist reptilian elites' you say are leading Oxfordshire County Council and how?

[Mrs Doyle]

38 minutes ago, nightowl said:

I'm fairly sure the WEF had features on their webpage about the 15m city idea so quite open about it there. As @kzb says the idea is not an upwards grassroots idea.

Except what he actually said was that the democratically elected OCC are globalist reptilian elites lead. 

[kzb]

4 minutes ago, Mrs Doyle said:

Except what he actually said was that the democratically elected OCC are globalist reptilian elites lead. 

That was just to rub it in.  The idea comes from the global elites.

[kzb]

7 minutes ago, Mrs Doyle said:

Lol. 

You sound batshit mental. 

OCC councillors were elected on a mandate in local elections and OCC is currently a coalition

They put the 15 min neighbourhoods idea in their 2040 plan. 

There has been local elections since that plan and the anti LTN/traffic filter/15min cities brigade candidates lost. 

So, I'll call. Who are these 'globalist reptilian elites' you say are leading Oxfordshire County Council and how?

Do the councillors lead the council ?

In my experience the councillors are just passengers.  They don't often know what is going on, it's only when they are told by a member of the public.

Sometimes they will raise a difficulty caused to their voters by a council scheme, but they are not in the driving seat.  Much like MPs.

[Mrs Doyle]

11 minutes ago, kzb said:

That was just to rub it in.  The idea comes from the global elites.

Nope, that was a clear statement made twice. 

And you are also wrong about where the idea comes from. 

This is basic f*****g research mate. You should try it. 

"A French-Columbian academic named Carlos Moreno coined the term ‘15-minute city’ in 2016, but the idea behind the concept stems from the turn of the last century, and an idea known as the ‘neighbourhood unit’."

Edited May 29, 2023 by Mrs Doyle
Edit

[Mrs Doyle]

8 minutes ago, kzb said:

Do the councillors lead the council ?

In my experience the councillors are just passengers.  They don't often know what is going on, it's only when they are told by a member of the public.

Sometimes they will raise a difficulty caused to their voters by a council scheme, but they are not in the driving seat.  Much like MPs.

In your experience, lol.

Your lack of knowledge about how things work is frightening but does explain why you suck up conspiracy nonsense with so much ease. 

The 2040 local plan was literally written by OCC councillors. 

 

[kzb]

10 minutes ago, Mrs Doyle said:

Nope, that was a clear statement made twice. 

And you are also wrong about where the idea comes from. 

This is basic f*****g research mate. You should try it. 

"A French-Columbian academic named Carlos Moreno coined the term ‘15-minute city’ in 2016, but the idea behind the concept stems from the turn of the last century, and an idea known as the ‘neighbourhood unit’."

There are very few new ideas.   I was not saying where the idea originated, just who is driving it through.