Are Britain's planned 15-minute cities effectively 15-minute control grids?

[Mrs Doyle]

2 hours ago, kzb said:

There are very few new ideas.   I was not saying where the idea originated, just who is driving it through.

kzb

"The idea comes from the global elites."

You're more confused than Scooby Doo! 😂

[kzb]

12 minutes ago, Mrs Doyle said:

kzb

"The idea comes from the global elites."

You're more confused than Scooby Doo! 😂

I'm not confused, it's you with problems on comprehension. 

The idea is promoted by the global elites.  Happy now ?

[Mrs Doyle]

2 minutes ago, kzb said:

I'm not confused, it's you with problems on comprehension. 

The idea is promoted by the global elites.  Happy now ?

😂

Now, where were we? Oh yes, you were going to tell us how this globalist reptilian elite was leading Oxfordshire County Council and who they are? 

Fill your boots. 

[kzb]

16 minutes ago, Mrs Doyle said:

😂

Now, where were we? Oh yes, you were going to tell us how this globalist reptilian elite was leading Oxfordshire County Council and who they are? 

Fill your boots. 

I never said I would do that, sorry.

[Mrs Doyle]

9 minutes ago, kzb said:

I never said I would do that, sorry.

Of course you won't because baseless claims are all you conspiracy loons have. 

[kzb]

10 minutes ago, Mrs Doyle said:

Of course you won't because baseless claims are all you conspiracy loons have. 

Your only defence seems to be ad-hominens.

I'm still waiting for how you will ensure that all services will be present.  Whilst I appreciate this may not be that relevant to the Oxford scheme as it stands now, it is also the thread title and part of the discussion.

[Arpeggio]

3 hours ago, kzb said:

There are very few new ideas. I was not saying where the idea originated, just who is driving it through.

Here's an article featured on the World Economic Forum website. It mentions "climate change" and "viruses" as arguments for: https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2022/03/15-minute-city-stickiness/

"As climate change and global conflict cause shocks and stresses at faster intervals and increasing severity, the 15-minute city will become even more critical.....

.....For longtime urbanists, the 15-minute city seemed to merely repackage the historic urban pattern of development: walkable, mixed-used districts. Old wine, new bottle, as the saying goes. But for a new framing to ignite a global urbanism movement, clearly there’s more going on.

The obvious, yet incomplete, answer is the pandemic. Would Paris's Mayor Anne Hidalgo have pushed for progressive urban design without this framing? Undoubtedly. But with COVID-19 and its variants keeping everyone home (or closer to home than usual), the 15-minute city went from a “nice-to-have” to a rallying cry.

5 hours ago, kzb said:

I've not noticed millions of people marching to demand 15 minute cities.  There is no popular movement behind it.

Yes there is.

See!

......Meeting all of one’s needs within a walking, biking or transit distance was suddenly a matter of life and death."

I already mentioned how 15 minute cities could be used for future "pandemics".

 

20 minutes ago, Mrs Doyle said:

Of course you won't because baseless claims are all you conspiracy loons have. 

Please calm down Mrs. Doyle.

Edited May 29, 2023 by Arpeggio

[Mrs Doyle]

21 minutes ago, kzb said:

Your only defence seems to be ad-hominens.

I'm still waiting for how you will ensure that all services will be present.  Whilst I appreciate this may not be that relevant to the Oxford scheme as it stands now, it is also the thread title and part of the discussion.

Lol.

I have posted numerous evidence to debunk your nonsense and defend my position. 

I haven't made any statement about services that I need to back up. 

You however, have made numerous statements with outlandish claims but for some reason are refusing to back yourself up on. 

Instead, you choose to meander and avoid. 

I wonder why. 

[The Spaniard]

Michelle Bachman, formerly of the US House of Representatives, seems to be convinced (presumably by some wicked conspiracy loons) that The WHO is planning soon to introduce a worldwide digital health passport for 80 countries. That will teach any insane, swivel-eyed, TFH wearing anti-vaxxers either to comply fully with each and every WHO jab program or to remain indefinitely in their country of residence/15-minute city/quarantine camp/whatever.

https://www.bitchute.com/video/Ui5rtffy8H6N/

It can't be true since if it were then surely the BBC would have told us about it. No doubt it's just a far right, domestic terrorist conspiracy theory, shortly to be debunked by that great champion of truth, Marianna Spring.

[Freki]

1 hour ago, The Spaniard said:

Michelle Bachman, formerly of the US House of Representatives, seems to be convinced (presumably by some wicked conspiracy loons) that The WHO is planning soon to introduce a worldwide digital health passport for 80 countries. That will teach any insane, swivel-eyed, TFH wearing anti-vaxxers either to comply fully with each and every WHO jab program or to remain indefinitely in their country of residence/15-minute city/quarantine camp/whatever.

https://www.bitchute.com/video/Ui5rtffy8H6N/

It can't be true since if it were then surely the BBC would have told us about it. No doubt it's just a far right, domestic terrorist conspiracy theory, shortly to be debunked by that great champion of truth, Marianna Spring.

What does that have to do with 15 minutes cities? Except for the fact that anti vaxx ( your new topic) and 15 minutes cities are the target of conspiracy websites. 

Also what kind of credit does this woman have? She claimed Georgia's election was stolen, she is a GOP, trump supporter. She is fabricating soundbites for her right wing nutters that would lap it all up. 

[nightowl]

25 minutes ago, Freki said:

What does that have to do with 15 minutes cities? Except for the fact that anti vaxx ( your new topic) and 15 minutes cities are the target of conspiracy websites. 

There's no conspiracy about 15min cities. They are actually happening, oxford first with others next.

There's no conspiracy about the WHO. They do have their treaty they want countries to sign up.

[Freki]

27 minutes ago, nightowl said:

There's no conspiracy about 15min cities. They are actually happening, oxford first with others next.

Ahah, sure, the conspiracy nutters claiming people will be parked in Oxford and not allowed to get out are not projecting their twisted imaginations

28 minutes ago, nightowl said:

There's no conspiracy about the WHO. They do have their treaty they want countries to sign up.

Well that's the point of WHO: to get treaties. After what the conspiracy websites say, and what really happens, there is a large divide

[miguel]

Well they won't restrict me to their 15 minute cities. I'll get on my (acoustic) bike. I travelled 22 miles yesterday and 22 miles back. I live in a dense urban environment and 38 of those 44 miles were separated from road traffic (dedicated cycle lane and canal). I'm mid 60's but on my journey I met a woman who is 78 on an ebike, she was doing a 60 miles round trip to see a relative. As she said 'the hills just disappear'. One of those ebike thingies might just come into the picture in a few years time. 

I'm in a 15 minute zone already and have been for many years. Two supermarkets within a 15 minute walk, docs, pharmacists, post office, local shops. It's pretty much how things used to be in the good ol days of the 50's and 60's. It's just that the butcher, greengrocer and local hardware shop has gone. The one thing that really has changed is the horrendous traffic and the pollution. My street has very high pollution levels, a combination of being surrounded by dual carriageways and some sort of funnelling effect. The good news is my doc said that I have the BP of a fit 20 y.o. and low cholesterol. I put that down to walking everywhere. Started walking to the local primary school at 5 years old and continued to a much longer walk (1 1/2 miles) to the upper school. 

[winkie]

Communities yes, two 15 min communities, 2000 miles apart....best of both worlds.

[Si1]

40 minutes ago, nightowl said:

There's no conspiracy about 15min cities. They are actually happening, oxford first with others next.

There's no conspiracy about the WHO. They do have their treaty they want countries to sign up.

Leeds council has started to identify and promote 15 minute neighbourhoods. That is all all or most of your amenities within about a 15 minute walk. The exceptions being high schools and jobs. That's hard to enforce in a big city. These are basically here anyway owing to passably sensible long term planning (except for local public transport which is a mess but that's another story). I live smack bang in one and it's so damn handy being able to be get to Aldi, Tesco, the park, swimming pool, gym, post office, Poundland, cafe, pub, Yadda Yadda all in a 10 minute walk (where I am). The price you pay for being IN one is denser housing and less parking, and a greater proportion of communal space, which some right wingers think is a socialist conspiracy, but I just count the advantages and the easier pace of life.

[miguel]

14 minutes ago, Si1 said:

Leeds council has started to identify and promote 15 minute neighbourhoods. That is all all or most of your amenities within about a 15 minute walk. The exceptions being high schools and jobs. That's hard to enforce in a big city. These are basically here anyway owing to passably sensible long term planning (except for local public transport which is a mess but that's another story). I live smack bang in one and it's so damn handy being able to be get to Aldi, Tesco, the park, swimming pool, gym, post office, Poundland, cafe, pub, Yadda Yadda all in a 10 minute walk (where I am). The price you pay for being IN one is denser housing and less parking, and a greater proportion of communal space, which some right wingers think is a socialist conspiracy, but I just count the advantages and the easier pace of life.

I forgot about my local park, the one that the good 'ol communist Victorians gave us. 10 minutes away and it has a rather good cafe. Swimming pool is more like a 20 minute walk, gym attached. A few pubs left but most have gone. As I said it's really very much like things were in the 50's and 60's. Public transport used to be heaving at rush hour but you had to endure the dreaded fag smoke. That's how folk got to work if it wasn't within walking distance. That or by bike, simply because cars were for richer folk. 

Edited June 30, 2023 by miguel

[winkie]

13 minutes ago, Si1 said:

Leeds council has started to identify and promote 15 minute neighbourhoods. That is all all or most of your amenities within about a 15 minute walk. The exceptions being high schools and jobs. That's hard to enforce in a big city. These are basically here anyway owing to passably sensible long term planning (except for local public transport which is a mess but that's another story). I live smack bang in one and it's so damn handy being able to be get to Aldi, Tesco, the park, swimming pool, gym, post office, Poundland, cafe, pub, Yadda Yadda all in a 10 minute walk (where I am). The price you pay for being IN one is denser housing and less parking, and a greater proportion of communal space, which some right wingers think is a socialist conspiracy, but I just count the advantages and the easier pace of life.

Yes of course when more populated and denser, no big supermarket is going to open a store where there are few people about to shop ...more people more facilities....good thing or not so good?....

Almost everything can be delivered, can do a greater number of jobs from home with right connection....Water,Sun, trees, land, wind....easier to be a place that can stand on own two feet.... energy, food and water.

 

[Si1]

Just now, winkie said:

Yes of course when more populated and denser, no big supermarket is going to open a store where there are few people about to shop ...more people more facilities....good thing or not so good?....

Almost everything can be delivered, can do a greater number of jobs from home with right connection....Water,Sun, trees, land, wind....easier to be a place that can stand on own two feet.... energy, food and water.

 

Denser housing arrangements have much lower carbon and ecological footprints, that is they are much more environmentally friendly, than less dense suburban or rural ones, per capita 

Vocal public environmentalist celebs like George Monbiot and Sarah Beeney living in their refurbished farmhouses in the countryside actually have large environmental footprints what with all that driving 5 miles to the local shop and massive square footage to maintain and heat.

[miguel]

4 minutes ago, winkie said:

Yes of course when more populated and denser, no big supermarket is going to open a store where there are few people about to shop ...more people more facilities....good thing or not so good?....

Almost everything can be delivered, can do a greater number of jobs from home with right connection....Water,Sun, trees, land, wind....easier to be a place that can stand on own two feet.... energy, food and water.

 

And that used to happen back in the late 60's/early 70's. Some enterprising chap used to pull up in some sort of box van and the locals would swarm all over it for their fruit and veg. It still happens in areas with a high asian population. 

[miguel]

4 minutes ago, Si1 said:

Denser housing arrangements have much lower carbon and ecological footprints, that is they are much more environmentally friendly, than less dense suburban or rural ones, per capita 

Vocal public environmentalist celebs like George Monbiot and Sarah Beeney living in their refurbished farmhouses in the countryside actually have large environmental footprints what with all that driving 5 miles to the local shop and massive square footage to maintain and heat.

Bang on! It's all about efficiency. It's much cheaper to supply water, gas, electricity etc. to a dense population than houses that are 5 miles apart. Having said that I wouldn't want to see such farmhouses and little hamlets disappear. 

[winkie]

9 minutes ago, miguel said:

And that used to happen back in the late 60's/early 70's. Some enterprising chap used to pull up in some sort of box van and the locals would swarm all over it for their fruit and veg. It still happens in areas with a high asian population. 

Food vans, another example, even the humble ice cream van....or specialist fairs and weekly markets.

[Si1]

11 minutes ago, miguel said:

Bang on! It's all about efficiency. It's much cheaper to supply water, gas, electricity etc. to a dense population than houses that are 5 miles apart. Having said that I wouldn't want to see such farmhouses and little hamlets disappear. 

Agreed. But I can do without the middle class moralising. "I like walking the dogs and I drive a land rover therefore I'm green"

[Si1]

9 minutes ago, winkie said:

Food vans, another example, even the humble ice cream van....or specialist fairs and weekly markets.

I'd hazard that Aldi and Lidl have lower environmental footprints and are more sustainable, owing to ruthlessly efficient production and supply chains.

[winkie]

2 minutes ago, Si1 said:

I'd hazard that Aldi and Lidl have lower environmental footprints and are more sustainable, owing to ruthlessly efficient production and supply chains.

Doubt it, their food to provide variety travel from miles away....bananas.

They have debt to service and people to pay....energy costs for air con and freezers.....local markets, local produce.

[miguel]

4 minutes ago, Si1 said:

Agreed. But I can do without the middle class moralising. "I like walking the dogs and I drive a land rover therefore I'm green"

I'm VERY green by incidence of poverty (lol). I do have a London mate who is a real green warrior. He's retired but takes 3 or 4 holidays every single year. Oz and the US are regular flight spots. I take the pss out of him. His only justification is . . . 'but I don't own a car'.  Yeah right.