Voting photo ID

[onlooker]

11 minutes ago, miguel said:

It's not rocket science. How do you know that they don't look for it or that they don't have checks and balances? 

Where (and when) was the lack of trust. Can you point to it? because sure as hell I can't remember any Trump like accusations of stolen elections. Perhaps the real problem is someone like Trump. The real fraud. 

At the last General Election there were concerns expressed about student voting, where AIUI some student leaders were encouraging students to vote both at home and in the university area. As it stands there is no way of combatting this unless it can be proved that somebody did vote twice, which can only be done with ID.

But I agree the collection of multiple postal votes usually by heads of family and community leaders is likely to be a significant problem not addressed by the current measures. Nobody knows because they don't look for it.

[Mrs Doyle]

1 hour ago, scottbeard said:

I've always found it very surprising that photo ID wasn't required to vote.

I just turn up and say "I'm Mr so and so from this house" and they cross me off a list and I vote.  I know the names and addresses of my neighbours, and I can see the list of names they are looking at...it would be so easy to come along with a couple of mates pretending to be the other people on the list.

It seems almost crazy that to log onto ebay I need an 8 digit strong password and 2-factor authentication, but to actually vote and determine who controls our taxes and nuclear weapons I just turn up and say "I'm Mr Durseley and I live at 4 Privet Drive" and an old lady with a pen and ruler just crosses me off and says "go for it".

And since most people already have photo ID it's not much of a hassle.  I don't have a big problem with it.

If you and your mates stand in front of several people who will look at the name and address you are giving and later the real person turns up then you are risking being identified and being charged with impersonation for what, one extra vote? 

What if someone in there recognised you or the neighbour of Mr Durseley is in the polling station or even working there or a teller recognises you as not bring from that area? 

Take a look at what getting caught impersonating someone in an election gets you and tell me it's an easy gig. 

Edited April 5, 2023 by Mrs Doyle
Spelling

[Mrs Doyle]

1 minute ago, onlooker said:

At the last General Election there were concerns expressed about student voting, where AIUI some student leaders were encouraging students to vote both at home and in the university area. As it stands there is no way of combatting this unless it can be proved that somebody did vote twice, which can only be done with ID.

But I agree the collection of multiple postal votes usually by heads of family and community leaders is likely to be a significant problem not addressed by the current measures. Nobody knows because they don't look for it.

Every ballot has an identifying number that corresponds to your name and address. It's why they write the ballot number down next to your name. 

It's also why all the ballot papers get locked away for years and can be checked if a judge requires it. 

[Mrs Doyle]

On 4/1/2023 at 6:58 PM, MARTINX9 said:

People fought and died for the right to vote. If you can't be bothered to go down to the post office or the local council offices to get photo ID to vote - then as you say maybe you aren't bothered enough to vote anyway.

We keep being told how wonderful the EU is - well pretty much every EU nation requires ID to vote. Even Ireland (which has never had a national ID card) requires ID to vote now. Anyone would think it was odd or unusual - it really isn't. You can't just turn up and give anyone's name and address - who you may know can't or hasn't voted - and get given their ballot paper as can in theory happen now here.

Given we are a nation with free at the point of use healthcare and a non contributory benefit system what would be so problematic with having a national ID card or even the recently introduced public services card they have in Ireland. If that is testament - as some imply - to some sort of overbearing dictatorship then we really don't have many democracies in Europe then do we! It would help for other purposes like NHS access, claiming welfare, opening bank accounts.

I certainly agree the government should be doing more to promote the changes in the run up to the local election.  You would think poor people don't drive, never go on holidays abroad, never open bank accounts - its all rather superior and patronising!

Given voter turnout we shouldn't be making it harder for people to vote. 

[miguel]

7 minutes ago, onlooker said:

At the last General Election there were concerns expressed about student voting, where AIUI some student leaders were encouraging students to vote both at home and in the university area. As it stands there is no way of combatting this unless it can be proved that somebody did vote twice, which can only be done with ID.

But I agree the collection of multiple postal votes usually by heads of family and community leaders is likely to be a significant problem not addressed by the current measures. Nobody knows because they don't look for it.

Community leaders? Where's your evidence for that? How do you know and have you looked? - to borrow your statement. 

How do you know that they don't look for it? 

You are making accusations without the slightest thing to back it up. Very Trumpian, who lost every single court case that he filed except one and that was on a technicality. He sure made a lot of money out of it though. 

Edited April 5, 2023 by miguel

[miguel]

3 minutes ago, Mrs Doyle said:

Given voter turnout we shouldn't be making it harder for people to vote. 

I would agree with it if there was a real problem. There's none, nothing, zilch, nada, fck all. 

[scottbeard]

11 minutes ago, Mrs Doyle said:

Take a look at what getting caught impersonating someone in an election gets you and tell me it's an easy gig. 

It isn't an "easy gig" - but there are lots of examples if you Google them of people being caught impersonating,  which suggests to me there are plenty of examples where they were not as well...

[miguel]

3 minutes ago, scottbeard said:

It isn't an "easy gig" - but there are lots of examples if you Google them of people being caught impersonating,  which suggests to me there are plenty of examples where they were not as well...

What are lot's? I've had a quick look on google 'voter caught impersonating' and I'm struggling. 

[winkie]

12 minutes ago, Mrs Doyle said:

Given voter turnout we shouldn't be making it harder for people to vote. 

Precisely.......even worse making it harder for those where there is a good chance will not be voting for them......the young, those with mental health and learning difficulties and the poor.

[nightowl]

15 minutes ago, onlooker said:

At the last General Election there were concerns expressed about student voting, where AIUI some student leaders were encouraging students to vote both at home and in the university area. As it stands there is no way of combatting this unless it can be proved that somebody did vote twice, which can only be done with ID.

 

In theory students could do this but I think it's unlikely or very low. If you home is 100s of miles from uni are you going to travel to vote twice? Especially as that age group don't vote much anyway? Sounds unlikely.

Even if they produced ID at both polling stations I doubt there's any mechanism to check for double polling still, and as many people share the same names anyway that won't work.

[winkie]

9 minutes ago, nightowl said:

In theory students could do this but I think it's unlikely or very low. If you home is 100s of miles from uni are you going to travel to vote twice? Especially as that age group don't vote much anyway? Sounds unlikely.

Even if they produced ID at both polling stations I doubt there's any mechanism to check for double polling still, and as many people share the same names anyway that won't work.

That is what happens....on the electrol roll at home address and couldn't get back to vote because studying miles away.

Some students registered at student digs but all these things take time and thought......students have lots to think about, voting might not be one of them......therefore other older people will vote on their behalf, that may not be in their future best interests...........no vote no say.

[Wurzel Of Highbridge]

What is needed is a social media campaign to get everyone to sign up for a voter ID. The system will collapse on it's self - problem resolved.

[msi]

29 minutes ago, Wurzel Of Highbridge said:

What is needed is a social media campaign to get everyone to sign up for a voter ID. The system will collapse on it's self - problem resolved.

The most valuable and informative post on this entire thread.

Well done.

[sexton]

1 hour ago, nightowl said:

A consequence is each vote isn't actually secret.

Never was. Ballots are numbered and the name can be looked up and forwarded to M15 if you vote for a Communist or other undesirable.

[Mrs Doyle]

2 hours ago, scottbeard said:

It isn't an "easy gig" - but there are lots of examples if you Google them of people being caught impersonating,  which suggests to me there are plenty of examples where they were not as well...

Do you have a percentage figure you could share? 

[Chunketh]

So other than obviously helping the conservatives, is there any reason why an over 60 Oyster card is valid ID but an 18+ one isn’t? 

[Mrs Doyle]

2 hours ago, scottbeard said:

It isn't an "easy gig" - but there are lots of examples if you Google them of people being caught impersonating,  which suggests to me there are plenty of examples where they were not as well...

They are caught precisely because it isn't easy. 

[Mrs Doyle]

2 hours ago, onlooker said:

At the last General Election there were concerns expressed about student voting, where AIUI some student leaders were encouraging students to vote both at home and in the university area. As it stands there is no way of combatting this unless it can be proved that somebody did vote twice, which can only be done with ID.

But I agree the collection of multiple postal votes usually by heads of family and community leaders is likely to be a significant problem not addressed by the current measures. Nobody knows because they don't look for it.

Students can register at both their home address and their student digs but can only vote once. 

It takes some effort to travel from one address to the other just to vote and as it's on record if you get caught there's no denying it. 

You state a likely significant problem then say no one knows. Which is it? 

[Mrs Doyle]

2 hours ago, scottbeard said:

It isn't an "easy gig" - but there are lots of examples if you Google them of people being caught impersonating,  which suggests to me there are plenty of examples where they were not as well...

You literally told us how easy you thought it was. Is it or isn't it? 

Edited April 5, 2023 by Mrs Doyle

[nightowl]

2 hours ago, sexton said:

Never was. Ballots are numbered and the name can be looked up and forwarded to M15 if you vote for a Communist or other undesirable.

That's what I have heard. To collate all the ballot papers together would be too tiresome, but collating ballots for the parties the system dissapproves of was doable.

  I suspected this as someone I worked with once voted for some commie like candidate at 18 as an act of rebellion than their political view believing it was secret, and later never got security clearance for defence contractor work for no apparent reason🤔  Certainly not secret or one heck of a coincidence.

[msi]

7 minutes ago, nightowl said:

That's what I have heard. To collate all the ballot papers together would be too tiresome, but collating ballots for the parties the system dissapproves of was doable.

  I suspected this as someone I worked with once voted for some commie like candidate at 18 as an act of rebellion than their political view believing it was secret, and later never got security clearance for defence contractor work for no apparent reason🤔  Certainly not secret or one heck of a coincidence.

I doubt that would trigger a block for SC, they are pretty straightforward so picked up something else.

Now DV is another matter....

[Bruce Banner]

Forget all the psychobabble, the only reason they're doing it is because they think it'll give them an advantage.

No advantage, no change.

[Mrs Doyle]

42 minutes ago, nightowl said:

That's what I have heard. To collate all the ballot papers together would be too tiresome, but collating ballots for the parties the system dissapproves of was doable.

  I suspected this as someone I worked with once voted for some commie like candidate at 18 as an act of rebellion than their political view believing it was secret, and later never got security clearance for defence contractor work for no apparent reason🤔  Certainly not secret or one heck of a coincidence.

It's too labour intensive to do it through ballots. It's easier to track your politics through social media. 

[Mrs Doyle]

11 minutes ago, Bruce Banner said:

Forget all the psychobabble, the only reason they're doing it is because they think it'll give them an advantage.

No advantage, no change.

Exactly. 

[Mrs Doyle]

1 hour ago, Chunketh said:

So other than obviously helping the conservatives, is there any reason why an over 60 Oyster card is valid ID but an 18+ one isn’t? 

Nope.