Will Russia invade Ukraine and what happens if it escalates with NATO/US getting involved

[Staffsknot]

36 minutes ago, bumble bee said:

Have you seen the dashcam footage?

16:28 

The video below, captured on a dashcam, has been verified by the BBC. It shows an explosion on a street in the city, and people running from the scene. Other footage and images shows damage to buildings and vehicles gutted by fire.

https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-europe-67838996

 

 

Yes and you claim anything hit by anti-aircraft fire is the fault of Ukraine in Ukraine.

Well Russia hit several of these that came down so your twisted logic makes that Russia's fault.

The reality in both cases is the inversebut these are the knots you tied yourself in with your stupid recital of the Russian Ambassador's idiocy.

So if this attack is Ukraine's fault it tells you who is to blame for yesterdays, and it isn't wht the Ambassador said.

Welcome to the grown up world

[Quiet Guy]

Aside from military supplies, some of the basic functions of Ukraine's government are being strained.

Ukrainian Deputy Prime Minister Yulia Svyrydenko said Wednesday, “The support of partners is extremely critical, we need it urgently.”
Svyrydenko warned that Ukraine’s economy is about to be forced into “survival” mode without the critical aid, which would likely see Kiev pausing wages for 500,000 civil servants and 1.4 million teachers. Also put on hold will be benefits for some 10 million pensioners.

This is from an FT article
https://www.ft.com/content/925d2d15-57bf-4a1b-b010-4e009be85f5a
But the Gulf Insider link lets you read the gist of it without the hassle of registering.
https://www.gulf-insider.com/millions-of-ukrainians-about-to-see-salaries-pensions-paused-as-western-aid-dries-up/

[yelims]

15 hours ago, bumble bee said:

Have you seen the dashcam footage?

16:28 

The video below, captured on a dashcam, has been verified by the BBC. It shows an explosion on a street in the city, and people running from the scene. Other footage and images shows damage to buildings and vehicles gutted by fire.

https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-europe-67838996

 

 

Russian Nazis shouldn’t have hidden military equipment in residential areas 

[bumble bee]

Ukrainian air defence become exhausted, this could be a problem as Ukraine expects to take delivery of F-16 fighter jets soon

 

Overnight into Sunday, December 31, Russian troops attacked Ukraine with 49 Iranian-made Shahed-136/131 drones from three directions, with 21 UAVs shot down by Ukrainian air defenses.

The enemy also struck the city of Kharkiv with six S-300 anti-aircraft guided missiles," the Ukrainian Air Force said.

https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-ato/3807166-ukrainian-air-defenses-shoot-down-21-out-of-49-shahed-drones-overnight.html

[bumble bee]

18 minutes ago, yelims said:

Russian Nazis shouldn’t have hidden military equipment in residential areas 

Ukraine executed an indiscriminate strike on the Russian city of Belgorod and not targeting military equipment.

[yelims]

38 minutes ago, bumble bee said:

Ukraine executed an indiscriminate strike on the Russian city of Belgorod and not targeting military equipment.

Russian Nazis were hiding military equipment in residential areas 

[yelims]

 

 what are your hopes for future?

Russian babushka: There is no hope

[bumble bee]

17 minutes ago, yelims said:

Russian Nazis were hiding military equipment in residential areas 

Partly yes, in addition to hiding military equipment ...

 

Russia said it attacked military facilities in the Ukrainian city of Kharkiv overnight, including a hotel housing military commanders and “foreign mercenaries”, in response to Ukraine’s strikes on Belgorod the previous day.

Russia’s statement said its attack hit the former Kharkiv Palace hotel and the headquarters of the Ukrainian security service for the Kharkiv region.

It said military and intelligence officers involved in Ukraine’s attack on Belgorod had been among those killed, along with “foreign mercenaries and militants” preparing to carry out cross-border raids.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2023/dec/31/russia-ukraine-war-live-kharkiv-under-wave-of-drone-attacks-on-new-years-eve

[yelims]

4 minutes ago, bumble bee said:

Partly yes, in addition to hiding military equipment ...

 

Russia said it attacked military facilities in the Ukrainian city of Kharkiv overnight, including a hotel housing military commanders and “foreign mercenaries”, in response to Ukraine’s strikes on Belgorod the previous day.

Russia’s statement said its attack hit the former Kharkiv Palace hotel and the headquarters of the Ukrainian security service for the Kharkiv region.

It said military and intelligence officers involved in Ukraine’s attack on Belgorod had been among those killed, along with “foreign mercenaries and militants” preparing to carry out cross-border raids.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2023/dec/31/russia-ukraine-war-live-kharkiv-under-wave-of-drone-attacks-on-new-years-eve

Now Rollover, why would anyone believe what Russian Nazis say?

 

 

Edited December 31, 2023 by yelims

[bumble bee]

4 minutes ago, yelims said:

Now Rollover, why would anyone believe what Russian Nazis say?

 

 

Have you heard the news today, funding decision still remains unknown but ...

 

The UK’s Ministry of Defence has sent a New Year’s Eve message of support to Ukraine, accompanied by a rendition of the song Lean on Me.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2023/dec/31/russia-ukraine-war-live-kharkiv-under-wave-of-drone-attacks-on-new-years-eve

[yelims]

9 minutes ago, bumble bee said:

Have you heard the news today, funding decision still remains unknown but ...

 

The UK’s Ministry of Defence has sent a New Year’s Eve message of support to Ukraine, accompanied by a rendition of the song Lean on Me.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2023/dec/31/russia-ukraine-war-live-kharkiv-under-wave-of-drone-attacks-on-new-years-eve

ah now Rollover 

UK also send hundreds of anti air missiles while your Dear Leader continues to send hundreds of thousand of Russians to be turned into fertiliser 

[btd1981]

Can somebody remind me what Putin actually wants to achieve with this whole endeavour after so long? What's the point of taking control of an area that either hates you or is utterly destroyed?

[zugzwang]

4 hours ago, bumble bee said:

Have you heard the news today, funding decision still remains unknown but ...

 

The UK’s Ministry of Defence has sent a New Year’s Eve message of support to Ukraine, accompanied by a rendition of the song Lean on Me.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2023/dec/31/russia-ukraine-war-live-kharkiv-under-wave-of-drone-attacks-on-new-years-eve

 

Ha ha. A rendition of 'When the Sky Comes Looking For You' would have been a better fit.

 

[pig]

2 hours ago, btd1981 said:

Can somebody remind me what Putin actually wants to achieve with this whole endeavour after so long? What's the point of taking control of an area that either hates you or is utterly destroyed?

From memory, ideally the Donbas would have been forced to be an autonomous region controlled by Russia, blitzed by batsh1t propaganda, but still part of Ukraine. Ukraine would have had a Kremlin asset for a leader. With those two moves Moscow would have exercised control over Ukraine. Didn't work out.

Plan B was to claim Ukraine has been taken over by Nazis, witches and vampires but brave Russia will liberate them to applause. Didn't work out

Plan C is Ukraine  is all Nazis, witches and vampires, is not a country, kill 'em all and wreck it. But kidnap their children, steal anything valuable. Made a dent, but not working out so far.

I seem to remember that at some point Ukraine would have settled for going back to some sort of pre 2022 status quo but Russias genocidal carnage blew that option out of the water.

[bumble bee]

17 minutes ago, pig said:

From memory, ideally the Donbas would have been forced to be an autonomous region controlled by Russia, blitzed by batsh1t propaganda, but still part of Ukraine. Ukraine would have had a Kremlin asset for a leader. With those two moves Moscow would have exercised control over Ukraine. Didn't work out.

Plan B was to claim Ukraine has been taken over by Nazis, witches and vampires but brave Russia will liberate them to applause. Didn't work out

Plan C is Ukraine  is all Nazis, witches and vampires, is not a country, kill 'em all and wreck it. But kidnap their children, steal anything valuable. Made a dent, but not working out so far.

I seem to remember that at some point Ukraine would have settled for going back to some sort of pre 2022 status quo but Russias genocidal carnage blew that option out of the water.

You have it somehow mixed up - maybe you've had too many drinks today.

Nazis origin - German nationalists, Vampires comes from Transylvania (Romania) and witches origin early Christians in Europe.

 

[bumble bee]

3 hours ago, btd1981 said:

Can somebody remind me what Putin actually wants to achieve with this whole endeavour after so long? What's the point of taking control of an area that either hates you or is utterly destroyed?

Medvedev also called on Russians to “make 2024 the year of the final defeat of neo-fascism”, repeating Putin’s claims of invading Ukraine to fight “neo-Nazis.”

https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2023/dec/31/russia-ukraine-war-live-kharkiv-under-wave-of-drone-attacks-on-new-years-eve

[btd1981]

1 hour ago, bumble bee said:

Medvedev also called on Russians to “make 2024 the year of the final defeat of neo-fascism”,

Sounds like he's saying he wants the Russian population to bring down their own leader?

[Drat]

5 hours ago, btd1981 said:

Can somebody remind me what Putin actually wants to achieve with this whole endeavour after so long? What's the point of taking control of an area that either hates you or is utterly destroyed?

Now it is all about Putin staying in power, and minions like rollover staying on the gravy train

[yelims]

More and more evidence that it was Russia that bombed its own city (again)

 

 

[DiggerUK]

It is more than likely that Putin will be elected in March. As there is a 'functioning' democracy in Russia it will be safe to accept that it will be a valid reflection of Putin's support within Russia.

It will be claimed by anti Putin and anti Russian interests that it was a rigged election, but that is par for the course. The main issue to take on board, is that if there was the slightest chance that Putin would fare badly in the elections, then they would not be going ahead with them. They also have opinion polls in Russia don't forget.

Ukraine on the other hand is not changing the law to allow an election to test  Ukrainian support for Zelensky, and by implication the conflict itself. For sure, there would be difficulties holding such elections, but it would not be  impossible to hold them. It would show what level of support for the conflict and Zelensky there really is. The margin of his victory would indicate how Ukrainians feel. Yes, I do suspect he would win, but by how much..._

This is beyond a winnable situation for Ukraine, I still see the only sane outcome now is for a ceasefire to be agreed and a settlement that will bring this conflict to an end. It won't be a lot of comfort to Ukraine, but if they turned against the Minsk agreement after listening to the message delivered by Boris Johnson, then it is on their heads what happens next.

This stupid slaughter must end. It is a conflict of attrition that has everything in Russia's favour for victory..._

 

 

[bumble bee]

1 hour ago, DiggerUK said:

It is more than likely that Putin will be elected in March. As there is a 'functioning' democracy in Russia it will be safe to accept that it will be a valid reflection of Putin's support within Russia.

It will be claimed by anti Putin and anti Russian interests that it was a rigged election, but that is par for the course. The main issue to take on board, is that if there was the slightest chance that Putin would fare badly in the elections, then they would not be going ahead with them. They also have opinion polls in Russia don't forget.

Ukraine on the other hand is not changing the law to allow an election to test  Ukrainian support for Zelensky, and by implication the conflict itself. For sure, there would be difficulties holding such elections, but it would not be  impossible to hold them. It would show what level of support for the conflict and Zelensky there really is. The margin of his victory would indicate how Ukrainians feel. Yes, I do suspect he would win, but by how much..._

This is beyond a winnable situation for Ukraine, I still see the only sane outcome now is for a ceasefire to be agreed and a settlement that will bring this conflict to an end. It won't be a lot of comfort to Ukraine, but if they turned against the Minsk agreement after listening to the message delivered by Boris Johnson, then it is on their heads what happens next.

This stupid slaughter must end. It is a conflict of attrition that has everything in Russia's favour for victory..._

 

 

I think Putin's position is strong and safe now.

Western countries should stop senselessly sacrificing Ukrainians in the conflict with Russia.

There's not much left, the US and allies now cutting the losses and leaving ukraine in difficult situation - no money, not enough service men, not enough weapons and ammunition ...

 

US funding for Ukraine dries up

Ukraine faces the prospect of allowing its cities to be bombed by Russia this winter as missile supplies from the United States dry up.

Experts warned that Ukraine’s air defences will be unable to repel all of Vladimir Putin’s winter bombing campaign, with the country’s military forced to choose which targets to defend.

https://uk.yahoo.com/news/us-funding-ukraine-dries-060000106.html

[bumble bee]

Ukraine should cut their losses now, if not they will just have to suffer some more. The end is open for any one to see ...

 

Putin vows to 'intensify' attacks against Ukraine military targets

Speaking to Russian servicemen on Monday, Mr Putin said the war was turning in Moscow's favour and he wanted the war to end quickly, but only on Russia's terms.

He added that Ukraine's Western supporters were the biggest obstacle to ending the conflict, but said their rhetoric was beginning to change as they started to realise they cannot "destroy" Russia.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-67858038

[Grayphil]

10 hours ago, DiggerUK said:

It is more than likely that Putin will be elected in March. As there is a 'functioning' democracy in Russia it will be safe to accept that it will be a valid reflection of Putin's support within Russia.

It will be claimed by anti Putin and anti Russian interests that it was a rigged election, but that is par for the course. The main issue to take on board, is that if there was the slightest chance that Putin would fare badly in the elections, then they would not be going ahead with them. They also have opinion polls in Russia don't forget.

Ukraine on the other hand is not changing the law to allow an election to test  Ukrainian support for Zelensky, and by implication the conflict itself. For sure, there would be difficulties holding such elections, but it would not be  impossible to hold them. It would show what level of support for the conflict and Zelensky there really is. The margin of his victory would indicate how Ukrainians feel. Yes, I do suspect he would win, but by how much..._

This is beyond a winnable situation for Ukraine, I still see the only sane outcome now is for a ceasefire to be agreed and a settlement that will bring this conflict to an end. It won't be a lot of comfort to Ukraine, but if they turned against the Minsk agreement after listening to the message delivered by Boris Johnson, then it is on their heads what happens next.

This stupid slaughter must end. It is a conflict of attrition that has everything in Russia's favour for victory..._

 

 

It's more than likely that Putin will get reelected, but to suggest that it's a true democracy is laughable.

There was an pro peace candidate that wasn't allowed to even run.

What is interesting, is that you are clearly a pro Russian/anti Ukriane account, yet you seem to be arguing that peace is needed as its unwinnable for Ukraine. 

But listening to Zelensky’s recent speeches, and looking at the support he is garnering just from Europe, it's easily winnable for Ukraine.

Let's remember that although a smaller population, Ukriane is currently pumping out many different forms of equipment and armaments, it's also innovating,it's now got sea drones that can launch missiles, and it's also producing those missiles, there are also many other advances that they are currently implementing. 

However that's not the most important thing, many European countries now know that they cannot rely on US support. So Europe and Britain has already ramped up production and this will only continue.

The US will 100% support Ukraine, because the world will be looking at the various new innovations that will arise and want to be a part of it for obvious reasons, in fact if the US isn't walking hand in hand with Ukraine, it will find its military outdated and unequipped for the future, with the newly imagined technology being built and developed in Ukriaine and the Europeans now potentially weary of sharing it with an unreliable partner.

I realise my post is a bit long winded, however the west will rally around Ukraine. The right noises are being made and Russia doesn't stand a chance unless it nukes the world.

[MarkG]

On 31/12/2023 at 09:02, btd1981 said:

Can somebody remind me what Putin actually wants to achieve with this whole endeavour after so long? What's the point of taking control of an area that either hates you or is utterly destroyed?

Denazification and demilitarization. And Russia has no interest in taking over the areas of Ukraine that don't want them; that was the US backup plan, of turning Ukraine into Russia's Afghanistan with a decades-long insurgency, but Putin isn't going to fall for that.

I believe he's talked a few times about how Western Ukraine used to be part of other countries like Poland and Hungary, and might well be willing to hand it over to them.

Anyway, looks like Ukraine is getting hammered with Russian missiles and drones again tonight while there are apparently long queues of Ukrainians at the border trying to escape before they're rounded up and sent to die pointlessly at the front.

[MarkG]

7 hours ago, Grayphil said:

I realise my post is a bit long winded, however the west will rally around Ukraine. The right noises are being made and Russia doesn't stand a chance unless it nukes the world.

The right noises and a fiver will buy you a cup of coffee.

Ukraine doesn't need noises, it needs weapons and men. They've burned through most of the men who were willing to fight and the Western weapons that were given to those men.

So Ukraine is done unless NATO sends in boots on the ground. I'm guessing Biden will encourage one of the Baltic states to suicide itself as Poland apparently isn't so eager any more.