South Africa looting on Sky News

[captainb]

15 minutes ago, Odysseus said:

This is Zuma’s house in Dubai. It was given to him by his Finance Minister as a present for being so nice. It’s also next door to his old mate Mugabe so they can have a chat over the garden fence when mowing the lawn on a Sunday. Like I said, brazen corruption on a scale not seen in the Western hemisphere

 

https://www.timeslive.co.za/sunday-times/news/2017-06-04-inside-zumas-dubai-palace--and-mugabe-lives-next-door/

 

 

That's a nice house.

The untendered PPE contracts on the fast track scheme, run into the billions. Often the kit was never used in the end and the sole supplier chosen wasn't qualified to make it.

Still don't think this crap goes on here?

Will be interesting/amusing to see how many ex ministers get surprisingly lucrative consultancy deals on leaving office.

Interestingly the foreign press is better at picking it up.. funny that 

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/12/17/world/europe/britain-covid-contracts.html

Edited July 14, 2021 by captainb

[andrewwk]

21 minutes ago, byron78 said:

The government is black. 

The wealth is still white.

The government is corrupt. The wealth bought the government. 

I'm amazed at how uneven it remains out there. One day you should go.

nonsense, plenty of black wealth (e.g. Ramaphosa himself), surprised you never saw that on your many visits.

[andrewwk]

23 minutes ago, byron78 said:

Many times, yes. A friend of mine played international cricket for SA (they banned him after he single-handedly destroyed the English!)

but I thought you never met a nice South African? or maybe he wasn't such a good friend after all..

[andrewwk]

56 minutes ago, reddog said:

But as I feel crime is completely out of control in many UK cities, it would be a problem!

 

Is there anyway of avoiding crime in SA?  For example if I lived in the British countryside I could more or less avoid crime, but I think in SA living remote is even worse?  

parts of Cape Town, probably. or the Garden Route perhaps. Most of the crazy crime stats / stories relate to Johannesburg.

[byron78]

29 minutes ago, andrewwk said:

but I thought you never met a nice South African? or maybe he wasn't such a good friend after all..

Without going too much into it, he was a bit of a git. Fun to be around, but a lot discovered in hindsight after he died.

 

 

[dirtyduck]

I had some family live there the last 30 years.  I spent six months there.  The security and fenced off electric fences is a norm.  This clip below is the milkman’s average day at work:-

 

 

[Fromage Frais]

3 hours ago, andrewwk said:

nah don't worry, most older people will stay there because the general standard of living is so much higher in SA (if you can tolerate the ever-present threat of crime) and the instability will probably not turn into outright chaos within their lifetimes.

TBH the main reason we come to work in the UK is the chance to save without capital controls (well that's my reason anyway). If I was saving in rands, I would be stuck there long term. Although I am sometimes tempted by what my GBP deposit would buy me in one of the nicer Cape Town suburbs...

 

You are not joking

When I visit my friends on constantia I feel like a peasant.......but on paper I am much wealthier with wages being much less there.

https://www.property24.com/houses-for-sale/constantia/cape-town/western-cape/11742?sp=pt%3d6000000#110061233

Nice large detached houses in 800m2+ plots the right side of the motorway in constantia quite a few for 250-300K and taking offers.

None near me in uk for more than twice the price and even then they are sub 200m2

Life is just more my cup of tea for example you get invited to dinner all the time and kids all have BBQs and parties any football match or event  results in beers and food.   

I have never been to so many houses with good sized mini pubs in them even bungalows.

I would not move there with the kids even though they would love to do so as my friends kids go to an amazing private school(s) there and the activities clubs and facilities are off the chart.

Tbh non of my friends there are white either so its not just a white lifestyle hangover from the empire.
  

 

 

Edited July 14, 2021 by Fromage Frais

[andrewwk]

8 hours ago, Fromage Frais said:

You are not joking

When I visit my friends on constantia I feel like a peasant.......but on paper I am much wealthier with wages being much less there.

https://www.property24.com/houses-for-sale/constantia/cape-town/western-cape/11742?sp=pt%3d6000000#110061233

Nice large detached houses in 800m2+ plots the right side of the motorway in constantia quite a few for 250-300K and taking offers.

None near me in uk for more than twice the price and even then they are sub 200m2

Life is just more my cup of tea for example you get invited to dinner all the time and kids all have BBQs and parties any football match or event  results in beers and food.   

I have never been to so many houses with good sized mini pubs in them even bungalows.

I would not move there with the kids even though they would love to do so as my friends kids go to an amazing private school(s) there and the activities clubs and facilities are off the chart.

Tbh non of my friends there are white either so its not just a white lifestyle hangover from the empire.
  

 

 

The inequalities that are rooted in colonialism definitely play a role in maintaining that lifestyle (the "benefit" that flows to the SA middle class of having a permanent pool of cheap labour). However, cheap property is a big (and underappreciated) factor too. One thing that always strikes me is the rate at which SA cities expand - case in point, when I was at school, we lived for a while on the edge of the city (I could see open fields from my window). 20 years later, that same house is now in the middle of suburbia. Obviously there are pros and cons to this, but it certainly helps to mop up excess demand.

[oracle]

15 hours ago, byron78 said:

I've never met a nice South African.

Anyone else?

and that's not bloody surpising,mun ( ..and I claim my £5!!😀)

[byron78]

6 minutes ago, oracle said:

and that's not bloody surpising,mun ( ..and I claim my £5!!😀)

I know! Went over lots of heads! (Apparently it's banned now?)

[reddog]

15 hours ago, PeanutButter said:

South Africa will be just fine. It is very different to Zimbabwe. 

And I think it’s a shame you’ve never met Desmond Tutu, you should make it a priority. 

Personally I have noticed huge changes in my visits there. There is a black middle class now. Black professionals. Black owners and managers and CEOs and entrepreneurs. 

Black artists. Black creatives. 

Black people buying cars, getting credit, fuelling capitalism. 

And you know, there is a white and mixed race underclass that few people want to acknowledge as well. It doesn’t suit the narrative when whites live in poverty too.

SA encompasses all that and more. It has absorbed huge inward migration flows from northern countries. It’s not a country that works well for sweeping statements. 

 

So in short would you say the problem was Zimbabwe was more of a rural society, which made people keen for land re distribution (by force!)

 

But SA with be different because it is more Urban and black population more integrated into economic activity?

[PeanutButter]

4 hours ago, byron78 said:

I know! Went over lots of heads! (Apparently it's banned now?)

It's a joke? OK, It was quite surprising coming from you.

4 hours ago, andrewwk said:

The inequalities that are rooted in colonialism definitely play a role in maintaining that lifestyle (the "benefit" that flows to the SA middle class of having a permanent pool of cheap labour). However, cheap property is a big (and underappreciated) factor too. One thing that always strikes me is the rate at which SA cities expand - case in point, when I was at school, we lived for a while on the edge of the city (I could see open fields from my window). 20 years later, that same house is now in the middle of suburbia. Obviously there are pros and cons to this, but it certainly helps to mop up excess demand.

Cheap labour to build the housing too. You pay your bribes and build, there's not the whole delay we have here where developers have to 'donate' to Tory MPs or find them board places.

SA build quality is actually pretty good IMO. 

8 minutes ago, reddog said:

So in short would you say the problem was Zimbabwe was more of a rural society, which made people keen for land re distribution (by force!)

But SA with be different because it is more Urban and black population more integrated into economic activity?

I just think the tribal mix, political background and vested economic interests are very different. It's really tough as an outsider to grasp how allegiances form and shift, how cultural norms are deeply embedded and how this plays out when poverty and violence are added. IMO Zims was broken for too long, and SA has learned from that. You can't absorb thousands of economic refugees and not learn what to avoid. With the black middle class in SA there's a natural anchor against destruction. They don't want to lose their cars and houses and possessions that only a couple of generations ago would have been unthinkable to obtain. Zims didn't have that steadying influence and still doesn't. 

[A17]

One of the reasons I have been told that South Africa has been more successful than other countries in that part of the world is that it has avoided some of the tribal divisions that other countries suffer from. You are South African first, and Zulu/Xhosa/Tswana second, rather than the other way around. It allows for somewhat more stability, and perhaps takes some of the edge off the corruption that is seen otherwise. Maybe it is changing.

[PeanutButter]

2 hours ago, A17 said:

One of the reasons I have been told that South Africa has been more successful than other countries in that part of the world is that it has avoided some of the tribal divisions that other countries suffer from. You are South African first, and Zulu/Xhosa/Tswana second, rather than the other way around. It allows for somewhat more stability, and perhaps takes some of the edge off the corruption that is seen otherwise. Maybe it is changing.

Good point. All were united against one enemy, and when that enemy fell the bonds remained. But listening to voters now, they’re appalled at the corruption endemic in the ANC but equally don’t feel there is any viable alternative. Sounds familiar! 

[MonsieurCopperCrutch]

18 hours ago, dirtyduck said:

I had some family live there the last 30 years.  I spent six months there.  The security and fenced off electric fences is a norm.  This clip below is the milkman’s average day at work:-

 

 

In the 21st Century why are we still transporting around cash in mobile targets? Bitcoin solves this. 

[A17]

1 hour ago, PeanutButter said:

Good point. All were united against one enemy, and when that enemy fell the bonds remained. But listening to voters now, they’re appalled at the corruption endemic in the ANC but equally don’t feel there is any viable alternative. Sounds familiar! 

The problem is the same with any form of "Independence Party", whose origin was to lead the opposition and fight against one-party authoritarian rule. They tend to slip very nicely into the position of the authoritarian party they replace. After all, they fought for your freedom, why would you oppose them?

[PeanutButter]

1 hour ago, MonsieurCopperCrutch said:

In the 21st Century why are we still transporting around cash in mobile targets? Bitcoin solves this. 

Magicoin requires connection and electricity. Now solve rolling power cuts and low literacy levels (yes, you need to be able to read to own a mobile). 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-06-02/south-africa-s-eskom-extends-power-cuts-to-friday-as-plants-fail

Oh but why is the nation's electricity provider so broken? https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-50854186

Until the corruption is rooted out and power stability maintained, it's a tough sell. 

 

[Big Orange]

5 hours ago, A17 said:

One of the reasons I have been told that South Africa has been more successful than other countries in that part of the world is that it has avoided some of the tribal divisions that other countries suffer from. You are South African first, and Zulu/Xhosa/Tswana second, rather than the other way around. It allows for somewhat more stability, and perhaps takes some of the edge off the corruption that is seen otherwise. Maybe it is changing.

It may have started to slowly evaporate 25 to 30 years ago and been rapidly speeding up through the 2010s - the Anglo-Dutch may have lost their military/political monopoly (that even included a small stockpile of nukes) but still got the lion's share of wealth. South Africa now resembles at least two to four incompatible nations cobbled together and looks like it's running on inertia...

Edited July 15, 2021 by Big Orange

[MonsieurCopperCrutch]

49 minutes ago, PeanutButter said:

Magicoin requires connection and electricity. Now solve rolling power cuts and low literacy levels (yes, you need to be able to read to own a mobile). 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-06-02/south-africa-s-eskom-extends-power-cuts-to-friday-as-plants-fail

Oh but why is the nation's electricity provider so broken? https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-50854186

Until the corruption is rooted out and power stability maintained, it's a tough sell. 

 

Doesn't require that much electricity as we are talking about broadcasting transactions not mining. And worst comes to the worst, you can broadcast via satellite. No internet connection required. As I said, we are meant to be in the 21st century bruh. 

https://blockstream.com/satellite/

 

[househunter123]

5 hours ago, MonsieurCopperCrutch said:

In the 21st Century why are we still transporting around cash in mobile targets? Bitcoin solves this. 

Not really. Some Saffers stole billions of bitcoin from clients! Nothing is safe, digital or physical there unfortunately!

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-06-23/s-african-brothers-vanish-and-so-does-3-6-billion-in-bitcoin

[A17]

5 hours ago, Big Orange said:

It may have started to slowly evaporate 25 to 30 years ago and been rapidly speeding up through the 2010s - the Anglo-Dutch may have lost their military/political monopoly (that even included a small stockpile of nukes) but still got the lion's share of wealth. South Africa now resembles at least two to four incompatible nations cobbled together and looks like it's running on inertia...

Quote

With his typically frank integrity, Mandela had warned publicly both before and after he became president in 1994 of potential corruption in his African National Congress. He’d detected among some colleagues an “our time to eat” entitlement after their decades of sacrifice in the anti-apartheid resistance. Foresight indeed.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/07/15/dream-south-africa-now-tatters/

[MonsieurCopperCrutch]

12 hours ago, househunter123 said:

Not really. Some Saffers stole billions of bitcoin from clients! Nothing is safe, digital or physical there unfortunately!

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-06-23/s-african-brothers-vanish-and-so-does-3-6-billion-in-bitcoin

That was people entrusting a third party to 'look after' their Bitcoin investment. Bitcoin is about cutting out the middlemen and taking responsibility in securing your own funds. Just run your own Bitcoin node and open up your own Lightning channels. Job done. 

[PeanutButter]

1 hour ago, MonsieurCopperCrutch said:

That was people entrusting a third party to 'look after' their Bitcoin investment. Bitcoin is about cutting out the middlemen and taking responsibility in securing your own funds. Just run your own Bitcoin node and open up your own Lightning channels. Job done. 

Trolling the third world…low, even for a coinboi. 

 

[MonsieurCopperCrutch]

1 hour ago, PeanutButter said:

Trolling the third world…low, even for a coinboi. 

 

Jesus wept. South Africa is not a third world country. 

https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/third-world-countries

[Gribble]

On 14/07/2021 at 17:41, byron78 said:

I've never met a nice South African.

Anyone else?

No they are brash backstabbers loud obnoxious two faced and obsessed with money