Pop321 Posted June 29, 2021 Share Posted June 29, 2021 6 hours ago, captainb said: Privately renting households have risen from 2m in the 90s to 5m now. Yes there's some population growth in there but you could halve the number of btl landlords and just go back to the 90s... Where students got a rental but graduates could afford to buy. I understand. And I don’t want to labour a point that I wouldn’t defend as a reason for keeping BTL landlords…..it’s not the graduates, low paid stable jobs etc I am wondering about housing those who could only rent indefinitely due to their circumstances ie those on long term benefits. I Guess I am wondering if the government or housing associations will step up as they should. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confusion of VIs Posted June 29, 2021 Share Posted June 29, 2021 5 hours ago, captainb said: In the event of a massive crash (in excess of 25%) theres a chance they couldn't cover the mortgage liability, difficult to see how they would have a CGT bill in those circumstances Over the years many, maybe most, LLs have increased their mortgages well past the original cost of the property, my friend was doing +90% re-mortgages for well over twice the original purchase price. If they sell now they face a CGT bill more than large enough to wipe out any remaining equity, if prices go down the shortfall will rapidly grow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captainb Posted June 29, 2021 Share Posted June 29, 2021 4 minutes ago, Pop321 said: I understand. And I don’t want to labour a point that I wouldn’t defend as a reason for keeping BTL landlords…..it’s not the graduates, low paid stable jobs etc I am wondering about housing those who could only rent indefinitely due to their circumstances ie those on long term benefits. I Guess I am wondering if the government or housing associations will step up as they should. If someone's being paid by the state on the long term benefits not sure the logic that the cash should be transferred to a BTL landlord. Effectively transfer from the average to the well to do.. rather odd. Ultimately anyone with kids who can't afford private rental should be housed by the state.. in somewhere where the state has space not where they choose Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneCernan Posted June 29, 2021 Share Posted June 29, 2021 8 hours ago, Si1 said: "As one landlord said to me, 'stocks and shares may not deliver the same level of return, but they don't phone me on a Sunday morning because the boiler's bust''." No they actually deliver far better rates of return. Yep. 15% tax free in my HL ISA. Oh I sleep well l knowing that I'm not pricing some young family out of a home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkins Posted June 29, 2021 Share Posted June 29, 2021 (edited) 6 hours ago, captainb said: In the event of a massive crash (in excess of 25%) theres a chance they couldn't cover the mortgage liability, difficult to see how they would have a CGT bill in those circumstances BTL landlords who extracted the equity gain from rising prices through mortgage equity withdrawal could end up in the position where they are in negative equity after a price drop and would crystallise a CGT bill on selling up if the sale price was higher than the price they bought at. Edited June 29, 2021 by Dorkins Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spyguy Posted June 30, 2021 Share Posted June 30, 2021 17 hours ago, highcontrast said: Are we heading for a buy-to-let exodus? Older landlords selling up and not being replaced could lead to a shortage of rental homes https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/buytolet/article-9725329/Are-heading-buy-let-exodus.html 'We feel we're being picked on' Yeah, that's because you're a bunch of leaching scumbags...lolz. Leaving out the important detail as always. Do they own the rental. Or are they leveraged IO BTL ? Meanwhile, a new report by the University of York and the Nationwide Foundation found that a large cohort of baby boomer landlords were now 'ageing out' of the market - and were not being replaced at the same rate by younger landlords due to diminished returns and more stringent regulation. There was no such thing as a mass of older LLs before ~2002ish. There will be no new mass LL to replace them. IO BTL has a gormless freak of gormless banking and piss poor regulation. This, it said, could mean that there are not enough rental homes to go around in future - especially for those tenants on lower incomes and who receive benefits. Ah the good ole LL destroys the houe argument. On Universal Credit, one landlord said: 'It's another nail in the coffin because the legislation's getting tighter, the mortgage interest rate change was a massive thing, the loss of Section 21 that's on its way. 'It's just, yes, we feel like we're being picked on and must be top of the list, someone doesn't like us sort of thing' Err S21 is here. A Leeds-based landlord said that people in receipt of benefit carried too many disadvantages compared with other tenants: 'If I can get somebody who can pay on the day he walks into the house, pay a month in advance plus a month deposit, why would I bother taking someone who can't pay for five weeks and I can't get insurance on? It really doesn't make any sense'. Thats news to him????? Thats already been the case FFS. However, another was more lenient: 'Personally, I'll take a good-as-gold tenant on benefits over probably like a normal tenant, because if you treat them right and make sure the house is all looked after and stuff, they stay a long time. They're happy. 'I've got plenty of DSS tenants that take pride in their houses and they're always asking me, 'Can I paint? I can do this? Can I change the carpet?' Oh dear. Just as well the LA keeps a list of good and bad tenants. And stay for ever. You mean stay till there housign allowance changes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spyguy Posted June 30, 2021 Share Posted June 30, 2021 I love these comments from tiny BSes - But despite these changes, The Nottingham also found that 11 per cent of people who have never been landlords want to purchase a buy-to-let in the next five years. 'It remains the case that there are potentially strong returns to be earned in the buy-to-let market and we continue to see landlords buying rental properties whilst our research indicates that many more potential landlords are considering going into the market too,' Wells added. According to The Nottingham, their main reason for potentially investing in buy-to-lets was the low rates available on cash savings. If these people are assuming a BTL is like a cash deposit saving account then theres no way they should be let near the leverage or rental market. Fortunately the lending rules means they wont be able to leverage up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Si1 Posted June 30, 2021 Share Posted June 30, 2021 7 minutes ago, spyguy said: I love these comments from tiny BSes - But despite these changes, The Nottingham also found that 11 per cent of people who have never been landlords want to purchase a buy-to-let in the next five years. 'It remains the case that there are potentially strong returns to be earned in the buy-to-let market and we continue to see landlords buying rental properties whilst our research indicates that many more potential landlords are considering going into the market too,' Wells added. According to The Nottingham, their main reason for potentially investing in buy-to-lets was the low rates available on cash savings. If these people are assuming a BTL is like a cash deposit saving account then theres no way they should be let near the leverage or rental market. Fortunately the lending rules means they wont be able to leverage up. The building societies have very limited business functions. They simply don't comprehend anything outside their little universe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamnumerate Posted June 30, 2021 Share Posted June 30, 2021 8 hours ago, captainb said: If someone's being paid by the state on the long term benefits not sure the logic that the cash should be transferred to a BTL landlord. Effectively transfer from the average to the well to do.. rather odd. Ultimately anyone with kids who can't afford private rental should be housed by the state.. in somewhere where the state has space not where they choose +1 particularly the bit not where they choose. 7 hours ago, Dorkins said: BTL landlords who extracted the equity gain from rising prices through mortgage equity withdrawal could end up in the position where they are in negative equity after a price drop and would crystallise a CGT bill on selling up if the sale price was higher than the price they bought at. They are sophisticated investors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Banner Posted June 30, 2021 Share Posted June 30, 2021 17 hours ago, Si1 said: This could be the ending to the S24 story which we thought would have finished by now. Never underestimate boiled frogs ability to hang on longer than you expected. They don't DO sums. Like BJ, it wasn't their fault they were stupid. Everyone I spoke to from the mid 90s onward was going into buy to let, policemen, waiters, white van man, all victims of an industry that sprung up to divert money into the flagging housing market. There were plenty of unemployed high pressure salesmen, left over from the time share industry and a small army of IFAs on generous commission, ready and willing to part the gullible from their money. Most have unloaded their time shares, now they'll do the same with their buy to lets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCountOfNowhere Posted June 30, 2021 Share Posted June 30, 2021 9 hours ago, Si1 said: Tonight's star prize is a speed boat, won by Karen and Derek from Wolverhampton. Bit of a weird prize when you think of it. A new car, sure. A new speedboat....as much use to most people as a chocolate tea pot. https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/tv/news/pembrokeshire-murders-bullseye-john-cooper-b1786300.html The Pembrokeshire Murders: How a Bullseye appearance implicated the real-life killer John Cooper If you are a serial killer, never go on a game show !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve99 Posted June 30, 2021 Share Posted June 30, 2021 On 29/06/2021 at 16:30, TheCountOfNowhere said: Sits shaking head. Yes, I know one with a HMO who is refusing to sell on account of CGT but he will never enjoy the proceeds. His wife however is 20 years younger and cant wait for him to pop his clogs and she will sell up the same day as he croaks it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Si1 Posted June 30, 2021 Share Posted June 30, 2021 23 hours ago, Pop321 said: I understand. And I don’t want to labour a point that I wouldn’t defend as a reason for keeping BTL landlords…..it’s not the graduates, low paid stable jobs etc I am wondering about housing those who could only rent indefinitely due to their circumstances ie those on long term benefits. I Guess I am wondering if the government or housing associations will step up as they should. City A.M.: Australian bank Macquarie places £1bn bet on UK rental housing market. https://www.cityam.com/australian-bank-macquarie-places-1bn-bet-on-uk-rental-housing-market/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve99 Posted June 30, 2021 Share Posted June 30, 2021 15 hours ago, spyguy said: I love these comments from tiny BSes - But despite these changes, The Nottingham also found that 11 per cent of people who have never been landlords want to purchase a buy-to-let in the next five years. 'It remains the case that there are potentially strong returns to be earned in the buy-to-let market and we continue to see landlords buying rental properties whilst our research indicates that many more potential landlords are considering going into the market too,' Wells added. According to The Nottingham, their main reason for potentially investing in buy-to-lets was the low rates available on cash savings. If these people are assuming a BTL is like a cash deposit saving account then theres no way they should be let near the leverage or rental market. Fortunately the lending rules means they wont be able to leverage up. Much of this of course is caused by interest rates being less than inflation, ie in this case zero. If the cost of money is almost zero then any return at all is considered worthwhile. Also as house prices have been ratcheted up by government policy for the last 20 years there is the certain knowledge in peoples minds that this will carry on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve99 Posted June 30, 2021 Share Posted June 30, 2021 2 minutes ago, Si1 said: City A.M.: Australian bank Macquarie places £1bn bet on UK rental housing market. https://www.cityam.com/australian-bank-macquarie-places-1bn-bet-on-uk-rental-housing-market/ Macquarie bank are the worst kind of shyster investment bank. They bought Thames water some years ago and bled it dry (pun intended) took massive fees 'owed' to them for buying it then sold off a fully indebted company to Australian pension funds. There is a whole story of what/how they did it somewhere in the web. A very nasty company indeed. If I was a newly elected Labour government I would let them buy and build as much as they want then impose massive landlord responsibilities and restrictions on them and a bit of rent control. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pop321 Posted June 30, 2021 Share Posted June 30, 2021 1 hour ago, Si1 said: City A.M.: Australian bank Macquarie places £1bn bet on UK rental housing market. https://www.cityam.com/australian-bank-macquarie-places-1bn-bet-on-uk-rental-housing-market/ Thx, interesting. I know steve99 highlights issues with the bank ( ie does this work) but it does show answer my genuine personal question about who may fill a gap if BTL withdraws. 👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Si1 Posted June 30, 2021 Share Posted June 30, 2021 7 minutes ago, Pop321 said: Thx, interesting. I know steve99 highlights issues with the bank ( ie does this work) but it does show answer my genuine personal question about who may fill a gap if BTL withdraws. 👍 Indeed. I'd want to see effective regulation. At the same time we shouldn't pretend that social housing 50 years ago was a utopia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pop321 Posted July 1, 2021 Share Posted July 1, 2021 7 hours ago, Si1 said: Indeed. I'd want to see effective regulation. At the same time we shouldn't pretend that social housing 50 years ago was a utopia. Agree. It was off thread by me and the answer to social housing should never be private BTL interest only ‘investors’. The gap is now filled by BTL and it needs changing. The 118 crowd and their sponsors (ie the government, media and TPTB) may try use that situation to try protect the current status quo. Having social tenants (as I do) can make the wrong person feel like some sort of entitled social benefactor who is owed everything. The reality is those who bought 20 years ago have effectively bought a second home outright using the tenants housing benefits. Caveat; many 118’ers may have done this, stuck with interest only and taken equity release….so they own nothing (other than a Range Rover lease) but have enjoyed the benefits all the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spyguy Posted July 1, 2021 Share Posted July 1, 2021 9 hours ago, steve99 said: Macquarie bank are the worst kind of shyster investment bank. They bought Thames water some years ago and bled it dry (pun intended) took massive fees 'owed' to them for buying it then sold off a fully indebted company to Australian pension funds. There is a whole story of what/how they did it somewhere in the web. A very nasty company indeed. If I was a newly elected Labour government I would let them buy and build as much as they want then impose massive landlord responsibilities and restrictions on them and a bit of rent control. Less IB; more PE weasels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCountOfNowhere Posted July 1, 2021 Share Posted July 1, 2021 11 hours ago, steve99 said: Yes, I know one with a HMO who is refusing to sell on account of CGT but he will never enjoy the proceeds. His wife however is 20 years younger and cant wait for him to pop his clogs and she will sell up the same day as he croaks it. She'll get a shock when she has to pay the -ve equity Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCountOfNowhere Posted July 1, 2021 Share Posted July 1, 2021 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
highcontrast Posted July 11, 2021 Author Share Posted July 11, 2021 https://www.telegraph.co.uk/property/buy-to-let/meet-landlords-forced-bribe-tenants-leave-properties/ Meet the landlords forced to bribe tenants to leave properties 'I even offered to pay the deposit on a new rental to get rid of them', one buy-to-let investor said Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huggy Posted July 11, 2021 Share Posted July 11, 2021 8 minutes ago, highcontrast said: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/property/buy-to-let/meet-landlords-forced-bribe-tenants-leave-properties/ Quote Paul Turner, a 56-year-old landlord, was left with outstanding arrears of more than £26,000 after an arduous battle with a tenant who stopped paying rent in 2019. After more than a year of failed negotiations a judge ordered the tenant to vacate the property in May, but Mr Turner, who also spoke using a pseudonym, has still not received any of the money owed. He said: “It is literally daylight robbery. I have had to take a sabbatical from work just to sort it out.” 😂 He is correct, it is literally daylight robbery... <pause for 2 seconds> ..and the tenant is also not blameless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spyguy Posted July 11, 2021 Share Posted July 11, 2021 2 hours ago, Huggy said: 😂 He is correct, it is literally daylight robbery... <pause for 2 seconds> ..and the tenant is also not blameless. I think LL are finding out why banks wont lend money to a lot of people. Insane that btl kans were priced cheaper than OO mortgages. What were the banks smoking? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamnumerate Posted July 11, 2021 Share Posted July 11, 2021 50 minutes ago, spyguy said: I think LL are finding out why banks wont lend money to a lot of people. Insane that btl kans were priced cheaper than OO mortgages. What were the banks smoking? If a home owner with a lot of equity has a BTL loan then there is not much risk for the bank - there is for the BTL landlord though! Oh well never mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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