Abolish stamp duty

[iamnumerate]

44 minutes ago, Unmoderated said:

Besides you can't make £20K/month in oil stocks when they're not rising if you've put all your money into a house right?

I want SDLT abolished so I am not taxed simply for moving house. I don't give a crap what it does or doesn't do to house prices tbh. The second they remove the mobility tax so many people are able to take advantage and make a move that they've likely been thinking about doing for years. 

Why not have a SDLT only the incremental increase in value of the house - and some small tax break for downsizing? That would provide an incentive to get the family house blockers moving along. 

I want SDLT to be abolished because I think that in the long term - combined with changes to the benefits system like no benefits if your house is worth £500k, more houses etc - it will make housing cheaper.

[TheCountOfNowhere]

51 minutes ago, iamnumerate said:

I want SDLT to be abolished because I think that in the long term - combined with changes to the benefits system like no benefits if your house is worth £500k, more houses etc - it will make housing cheaper.

You think the MSM and VIs are glamouring for it because they think it'll make houses more affordable ?

 

[dugsbody]

7 minutes ago, TheCountOfNowhere said:

You think the MSM and VIs are glamouring for it because they think it'll make houses more affordable ?

Who cares why they want it. You're capable of independent reasoning, right? Transaction taxes on moving house is dumb.

Would you be ok if we put a transaction tax on everyone moving house, buyers and renters? Say two years rent paid up front to the government? That should reduce rents right?

 

[Locke]

3 hours ago, GregBowman said:

Totally agree there has to be some tax on unearned wealth 

The government is unlikely to tax itself when it steals from us or prints trillions of pounds (both totally unearned)

Additionally, it is moral hazard to allow the people in charge of the money printers to benefit from the increase in price (not necessarily value) of assets.

[derestricted]

4 hours ago, wighty said:

 or into Bitcoin.

That didn't take long 🤣

[TheCountOfNowhere]

1 minute ago, dugsbody said:

Who cares why they want it. You're capable of independent reasoning, right? Transaction taxes on moving house is dumb.

 

I dont agree with most taxes but removing the SD right now is not about helping people, it's spivs and property speculators campaigning for it so they can profit, or worse sell up, at a time when the country needs some sort of economic sanity, which I guarantee we wont get either way.

Remove SD, already inflated house prices will shoot up 10/20%, they'll lower IRs again to support the new normal prices, they'll tax people more to support these new prices, they'll devalue productive work more to support these new prices.  

At every turn it's getting worse for the majority and better for a tiny minority and they're the ones making the decisions.

Hell, remove SD, but remove it when house prices have collapsed and are once again attached to some sort of reality.

but that's not what they want.

 

[iamnumerate]

20 minutes ago, TheCountOfNowhere said:

I dont agree with most taxes but removing the SD right now is not about helping people, it's spivs and property speculators campaigning for it so they can profit, or worse sell up, at a time when the country needs some sort of economic sanity, which I guarantee we wont get either way.

Remove SD, already inflated house prices will shoot up 10/20%, they'll lower IRs again to support the new normal prices, they'll tax people more to support these new prices, they'll devalue productive work more to support these new prices.  

At every turn it's getting worse for the majority and better for a tiny minority and they're the ones making the decisions.

Hell, remove SD, but remove it when house prices have collapsed and are once again attached to some sort of reality.

but that's not what they want.

 

Maybe it should be removed but only for owner occupiers and increase it for  "investors" that would be the best solution.

[TheCountOfNowhere]

13 minutes ago, iamnumerate said:

Maybe it should be removed but only for owner occupiers and increase it for  "investors" that would be the best solution.

Again, it'll just be used to make people borrow more to pay more which filters up all the changes to the rich. You seem very happy to take on more debt from a corrupt banking system to get shelter.  These people are in the process of indebting a nation and you want to help them ?

In a matter of months house prices will be even more unaffordable and the bubble even more unstable.

I wouldn't put it past them though.  I've never seem such a VI lobbying effort for anything.

If Sunak extends the cut for anyone who's already agreed a sale, already has the mortgage offer in place and still wants to pay 10% more than last year despite everyone saying prices will collapses without the cut then that seems fair.

Edited February 22, 2021 by TheCountOfNowhere

[Timbuk3]

6 hours ago, TheCountOfNowhere said:

Yes, that's not the bit the property VIs are campaigning for  

Bring that in and not only would the Stamp Duty holiday ending bring down prices but that would collapse prices instantly.

Be careful what you wish for, you may just get it and it might not look like you thought it would. 😁

[iamnumerate]

2 hours ago, TheCountOfNowhere said:

Again, it'll just be used to make people borrow more to pay more which filters up all the changes to the rich. You seem very happy to take on more debt from a corrupt banking system to get shelter.  These people are in the process of indebting a nation and you want to help them ?

In a matter of months house prices will be even more unaffordable and the bubble even more unstable.

I wouldn't put it past them though.  I've never seem such a VI lobbying effort for anything.

If Sunak extends the cut for anyone who's already agreed a sale, already has the mortgage offer in place and still wants to pay 10% more than last year despite everyone saying prices will collapses without the cut then that seems fair.

But if investors had to pay more - then there would be a lot less buyers and prices would drop.

I wouldn't mind if investors had to pay 10% stamp duty.

[satsuma]

They will abolish stamp duty, prime the pump, all hands to the printer lads.  The cost can be move to punitive taxes on enterprises and households.  Jobs a good un.  

[TheCountOfNowhere]

13 minutes ago, Timbuk3 said:

Be careful what you wish for, you may just get it and it might not look like you thought it would. 😁

Oh, I wont stop wishing for it now.

I am resigned to what is coming next and preparing for the inevitable.   

I have for some time, haven't you ?

It's not like we've not been warned !!!!

Anyone who's put their trust in a government who are massively invested in property, who would even dare deny democracy to the British people are going to be disappointed.  

The money is there for the taking if you are patient. 

I think we might see a massive collapse sooner rather than later now so I am starting to sell up.  The rest of this year is worth sitting out I think.  Having your cash tied up in a house is not great sometimes. 

Market Summary > Exxon Mobil Corporation   

54.54 USD+2.17 (4.14%)

 

52-wk low

30.11

 

Market Summary > Royal Dutch Shell Plc

1,430.40 GBX+33.20 (2.38%)

52-wk low

878.10

 

Market Summary > BP plc

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52-wk low

188.52

 

Market Summary > Repsol SA

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52-wk low

5.04

 

And my favourite because I caught it right on the sweet spot and it'll pay my rent till I retire.....

 

Market Summary > Royal Mail PLC

471.00 GBX−8.60 (1.79%)

52-wk low

118.86

 

 

 

Gold Price Last 5 Years

Current Price	£1,284.89
5 Year High	£1,574.37
5 Year Low	£827.14
5 Year Change	£+417.72 (48.17 %)

 

 

Silver Price Last 5 Years

Current Price	£19.96
5 Year High	£21.70
5 Year Low	£10.28
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1 Bitcoin equals

37,855.82 Pound sterling

 

Meanwhile, in the world of the trolls who always know best and think we're all sad clueless ****s because we dont own a house.....  

 

 

Can't win 'em all I suppose.

 

 

 

[TheCountOfNowhere]

31 minutes ago, iamnumerate said:

But if investors had to pay more - then there would be a lot less buyers and prices would drop.

I wouldn't mind if investors had to pay 10% stamp duty.

yeah, of course.  But the government MPs, their advisors, their banker chums are all invested in this up to their eye balls, they're not going to do that.  Any removal of SD is simply to push up prices, profitting them even more.  The investors are already at the top of the pyramid so any small change in house prices is now amplified in their favour. 

You are like a turkey voting for Christmas right now.

Here is the man tasked with fixing the housing crisis....do you really think that's what he wants to do ?  

He's doing very nicely out of being at the top of that tree.

Edited February 22, 2021 by TheCountOfNowhere

[dugsbody]

11 hours ago, TheCountOfNowhere said:

yeah, of course.  But the government MPs, their advisors, their banker chums are all invested in this up to their eye balls, they're not going to do that.  Any removal of SD is simply to push up prices, profitting them even more.  The investors are already at the top of the pyramid so any small change in house prices is now amplified in their favour. 

You are like a turkey voting for Christmas right now.

Here is the man tasked with fixing the housing crisis....do you really think that's what he wants to do ?  

He's doing very nicely out of being at the top of that tree.

They are corrupt as f... but that doesn't change that a transaction tax on moving houses is a bad thing.

Otherwise, let's put a two year rent up front transaction tax on renters who want to move home. That should keep rent prices down and therefore house prices down.

[adarmo]

12 hours ago, TheCountOfNowhere said:

Oh, I wont stop wishing for it now.

I am resigned to what is coming next and preparing for the inevitable.   

I have for some time, haven't you ?

It's not like we've not been warned !!!!

Anyone who's put their trust in a government who are massively invested in property, who would even dare deny democracy to the British people are going to be disappointed.  

The money is there for the taking if you are patient. 

I think we might see a massive collapse sooner rather than later now so I am starting to sell up.  The rest of this year is worth sitting out I think.  Having your cash tied up in a house is not great sometimes. 

Market Summary > Exxon Mobil Corporation   

54.54 USD+2.17 (4.14%)

 

52-wk low

30.11

 

Market Summary > Royal Dutch Shell Plc

1,430.40 GBX+33.20 (2.38%)

52-wk low

878.10

 

Market Summary > BP plc

270.78 GBX−1.57 (0.58%)

52-wk low

188.52

 

Market Summary > Repsol SA

10.15 EUR+0.21 (2.11%)

52-wk low

5.04

 

And my favourite because I caught it right on the sweet spot and it'll pay my rent till I retire.....

 

Market Summary > Royal Mail PLC

471.00 GBX−8.60 (1.79%)

52-wk low

118.86

 

 

 

Gold Price Last 5 Years

Current Price	£1,284.89
5 Year High	£1,574.37
5 Year Low	£827.14
5 Year Change	£+417.72 (48.17 %)

 

 

Silver Price Last 5 Years

Current Price	£19.96
5 Year High	£21.70
5 Year Low	£10.28
5 Year Change	£+8.93 (80.99 %)

 

1 Bitcoin equals

37,855.82 Pound sterling

 

Meanwhile, in the world of the trolls who always know best and think we're all sad clueless ****s because we dont own a house.....  

 

 

Can't win 'em all I suppose.

Interesting summary there. 

I do remember though that when you told everyone you'd made 20k on oil shares what actually happened was oil stocks fell. I thought you must have done it some other way but now you quote oil stocks as spat goggle as evidence you made some money. Where's the real evidence?

Then you use inflation adjusted house prices as a comparison against nominal returns in other assets. That level of analysis isn't comparable. 

Finally, if you'd bought a house you'd also be rent free until you die.  Pretending you made enough money to rent until you die makers either some incredible assumptions about rent increases and your life expectancy or you made soooooo much money it'll clearly do you forever. 

Meanwhile, in the real world, if you'd bought a house in mid 2017 for a good price (say an elderly couple needing to move into care in a hurry) and places a 15% deposit of 65k down you'd Hagee not only saved about 15k in rent a year, you'd also be looking at a 15% increase in value. So doubling up on the deposit AND saving about 52k so far in rent. Take off 11k sdlt about about 6k spent on some improvements and DIY It still doesn't look too bad. 

[adarmo]

55 minutes ago, dugsbody said:

They are corrupt as f... but that doesn't change that a transaction tax on moving houses is a bad thing.

Otherwise, let's put a two year rent up front transaction tax on renters who want to move home. That should keep rent prices down and therefore house prices down.

Exactly. Simply a tax on moving. 

[TheCountOfNowhere]

1 hour ago, dugsbody said:

Otherwise, let's put a two year rent up front transaction tax on renters who want to move home. That should keep rent prices down and therefore house prices down.

Nonsense. 

 

[Saving For a Space Ship]

Why Rishi Sunak should put an end to England's stamp duty holiday romance

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/feb/28/why-rishi-sunak-should-put-an-end-to-englands-stamp-duty-holiday-romance

[nothernsoul]

I agree stamp duty isnt an ideal tax but it is one of the few taxes on an already massively undertaxed, overvalued asset-undertaxed by uk historical standards going from when council tax replaced rates, undertaxed in comparisons between UK and other first world nations, as a comparison between tax on earned income, or as a fraction of the nations wealth. 

If stamp duty were to be abolished and to be replaced by another property tax, a capital gains tax paid by the seller, or a replacement for council tax more closely linked to the properties value, I would be all for it. But it wont. And maybe not in this budget, but in future ones, that lost revenue will be taken in tax from earned income. 

We will just end up with the ridiculous sittuation in the budget with token taxes on pensions, or business, or whatever, completely negated by effectively giving it in away in profits to somebody selling an 800 grand house. Hardly the neediest or most deserving in our society at the present time. 

[Twenty Something]

On 23/02/2021 at 08:36, adarmo said:

Interesting summary there. 

I do remember though that when you told everyone you'd made 20k on oil shares what actually happened was oil stocks fell. I thought you must have done it some other way but now you quote oil stocks as spat goggle as evidence you made some money. Where's the real evidence?

Then you use inflation adjusted house prices as a comparison against nominal returns in other assets. That level of analysis isn't comparable. 

Finally, if you'd bought a house you'd also be rent free until you die.  Pretending you made enough money to rent until you die makers either some incredible assumptions about rent increases and your life expectancy or you made soooooo much money it'll clearly do you forever. 

Meanwhile, in the real world, if you'd bought a house in mid 2017 for a good price (say an elderly couple needing to move into care in a hurry) and places a 15% deposit of 65k down you'd Hagee not only saved about 15k in rent a year, you'd also be looking at a 15% increase in value. So doubling up on the deposit AND saving about 52k so far in rent. Take off 11k sdlt about about 6k spent on some improvements and DIY It still doesn't look too bad. 

There is no real evidence - how many real multi-millionaires do you suppose spend countless hours a day on a website forum trying to convince others of who they are? The reality is genuinely wealthy and successful people are the exact opposite of TCON - keep themselves to themselves and don't have a need to fill a void. 

Another question I would add is how many Royal Mail shares were purchased and when to pay rent for the next however many decades? Assuming he is selling the story that he brought right on the 52 week low of 118.86 and it is now 471, that would give a £3.53 per share rise. A quick google shows £981 as the average UK rent, therefore just under 12k a year. If you put him age 45, that would give based on average life expectancy another 35 years, so £412,000. So, to see this through to its logical conclusion, he would need to have brought 116, 714 shares at £1.18, so an investment of £137,722. An this is aside from the millions of oil shares he must have to make 20k a month on them too. 

So at the risk of getting put on the troll list for a 7th time, I'm calling BS. 

[highcontrast]

Excellent, sensible article about the stamp duty holiday by actor David Mitchell of all people:

Why Rishi Sunak should put an end to England's stamp duty holiday romance

David Mitchell

 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/feb/28/why-rishi-sunak-should-put-an-end-to-englands-stamp-duty-holiday-romance

 

"Presumably the point of the stamp duty holiday, other than being an excuse to use the otherwise now superfluous word “holiday”, was to prevent stagnation in the property market from damaging the wider economy. Well, at 8.5% growth, in a year of unprecedented virally induced recession, I’d say stagnation has been resoundingly averted. That’s about as stagnant as a stretch of rapids, except these turbulent, swirling waters are flowing upwards.

In fact, hasn’t the chancellor’s scheme rather overshot the mark? Price rises at this level will themselves damage the economy by making it even more massively too expensive to buy somewhere to live than it is already. You’d imagine Rishi Sunak was now thinking: “Oh dear, maybe the housing sector didn’t need that big discount after all. Maybe those billions would have been better spent increasing hospital capacity before the second wave, or giving those free-school-meal kids a second slice of bread.” But no, it seems he’s thinking: “We need to extend that stamp duty holiday. We wouldn’t want house price growth to dip below 10 times the rate of inflation.”

[adarmo]

4 hours ago, Twenty Something said:

There is no real evidence - how many real multi-millionaires do you suppose spend countless hours a day on a website forum trying to convince others of who they are? The reality is genuinely wealthy and successful people are the exact opposite of TCON - keep themselves to themselves and don't have a need to fill a void. 

Another question I would add is how many Royal Mail shares were purchased and when to pay rent for the next however many decades? Assuming he is selling the story that he brought right on the 52 week low of 118.86 and it is now 471, that would give a £3.53 per share rise. A quick google shows £981 as the average UK rent, therefore just under 12k a year. If you put him age 45, that would give based on average life expectancy another 35 years, so £412,000. So, to see this through to its logical conclusion, he would need to have brought 116, 714 shares at £1.18, so an investment of £137,722. An this is aside from the millions of oil shares he must have to make 20k a month on them too. 

So at the risk of getting put on the troll list for a 7th time, I'm calling BS. 

Haha, well said 😀

[scottbeard]

On 22/02/2021 at 11:43, TheCountOfNowhere said:

It's gone from extending the stamp duty holiday to getting rid of it entirely.

That's pretty mentla when you think about it

I'm all for getting rid of stamp duty altogether.  It's a stupid, stupid tax - because it dissaudes people from doing sensible things (like upsizing when you have kids or downsizing when they move out) and punishes people for moving house.

Stamp duty on the house you live in should be abolished, whilst they can tax second and subsequent homes as much as they like with stamp duty, CGT, whatever.

But forcing ordinary everyday people to pay tens of thousands of pounds in tax because they changed their job and now need to move to another town....evil and ridiculous.

[MonsieurCopperCrutch]

On 2/22/2021 at 1:43 PM, PeanutButter said:

This is HPC, not BTC Spruikers. Has every forum become riddled with vested interest coinheads? How is this constant bombardment of threads encouraging investment any different from people being told to buy timeshare, or Avon, or Herbalife, OR BTL?

Well it's only the best performing asset of the last 10 years so hardly surprising. I kindly suggest you wind your salty neck in a bit next time. 

 

 

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https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-12-31/bitcoin-s-9-000-000-rise-this-decade-leaves-the-skeptics-aghast

 

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Edited March 1, 2021 by MonsieurCopperCrutch

[dugsbody]

18 hours ago, nothernsoul said:

I agree stamp duty isnt an ideal tax but it is one of the few taxes on an already massively undertaxed, overvalued asset-undertaxed by uk historical standards going from when council tax replaced rates, undertaxed in comparisons between UK and other first world nations, as a comparison between tax on earned income, or as a fraction of the nations wealth. 

If stamp duty were to be abolished and to be replaced by another property tax, a capital gains tax paid by the seller, or a replacement for council tax more closely linked to the properties value, I would be all for it. But it wont. And maybe not in this budget, but in future ones, that lost revenue will be taken in tax from earned income. 

We will just end up with the ridiculous sittuation in the budget with token taxes on pensions, or business, or whatever, completely negated by effectively giving it in away in profits to somebody selling an 800 grand house. Hardly the neediest or most deserving in our society at the present time. 

I'm glad I already live in the house I intend to carry on living in, so I don't need to hand over a bunch more money to the government for the privilege of moving to a new bit of land in my country. I also managed to do the final move in the stamp duty holiday so saved myself a chunk.

I feel we should also apply the tax fairly because after all it isn't good to treat homeowners much differently from renters. Therefore renters should pay 2 x yearly rent up-front in tax to the government whenever they move.

It's good that you guys are volunteering to continue paying this tax each time you move, the UK certainly needs the income. Thanks.

Edited March 1, 2021 by dugsbody