Arpeggio Posted November 5, 2020 Share Posted November 5, 2020 I think this fellow has a very deep voice: Milwaukee had over 200% voter turnout according to this: https://noqreport.com/2020/11/04/90-voter-turnout-in-wisconsin-is-impossible-without-voter-fraud-as-seven-milwaukee-districts-report-higher-than-100/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Young Turk Posted November 5, 2020 Share Posted November 5, 2020 I mean before the era of social media. But would the culture war have escalated much without social media? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gigantic Purple Slug Posted November 5, 2020 Share Posted November 5, 2020 I think this fellow has a very deep voice: Milwaukee had over 200% voter turnout according to this: https://noqreport.com/2020/11/04/90-voter-turnout-in-wisconsin-is-impossible-without-voter-fraud-as-seven-milwaukee-districts-report-higher-than-100/ I have no idea whether that is true or not, but if it is it will surely cause huge consequences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captainb Posted November 5, 2020 Share Posted November 5, 2020 I think this fellow has a very deep voice: Milwaukee had over 200% voter turnout according to this: https://noqreport.com/2020/11/04/90-voter-turnout-in-wisconsin-is-impossible-without-voter-fraud-as-seven-milwaukee-districts-report-higher-than-100/ Is there any nonsense conspiracy theory you dont go with? You mean some wards -which have low hundreds of people in, had more than 200% turnout compared to the last registered voter figures... given Wisconsin allows same day registration, its % of eligible voters that matters.. which is 70%. https://eu.jsonline.com/story/news/politics/elections/2020/11/04/fact-check-wisconsin-did-not-have-more-votes-than-registered-voters/6166062002/ And as you love twitter, how about the electoral commission there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonsieurCopperCrutch Posted November 5, 2020 Share Posted November 5, 2020 This is all very entertaining. 😁 “You lost, get over it.” Wasn’t that the catchphrase? It's all soo Brexshitty. 😀 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msi Posted November 5, 2020 Share Posted November 5, 2020 Someone I know who is knowledgeable on history certainly thinks it's very possible - not in the next year or two of course, but in the next 50-100 years (say). Once you get to a stage where there are just entrenched red & blue areas who get more and more entrenched rather than closer together, history says you're pointing towards a permanent split so that each half can govern itself differently, rather than trying forever to create an impossible compromise. You see, I think HPC has changed because in the past different views were listened to and debated. Now you yourself are saying "the only sensible view is anti-Boris, and if you're not anti-Boris you don't belong on HPC". Back in 2007 there were bulls and bears with opposing views, but both were very much part of the community. Now there seems to be a campaign to create the "HPC image" and if you face doesn't fit it you don't belong. It's like a detestable London club. I was invited to a 'members' club in my student days by a wealthier friend. On hearing my slight Northen twang (it's bath not baath) the folks looked at me as if they trod in dogsh*t. TBH I only went because I thought it was a swingers club Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonsieurCopperCrutch Posted November 5, 2020 Share Posted November 5, 2020 I don't know what's more entertaining, watching Trump and his family lose it or watching all the Trump trolls go from 'its the lame stream media' to 'count all the votes' to 'stop counting votes' to 'the votes are fake....'. You can hear the voices go up an octave each time. I don't care for either, what I enjoy is the shrill hypocrisy of the Trumpers who want to 'protect' democracy until it doesn't go their way. Same lot that, in the UK, rubbished PR until they wanted UKIP in. Same lot that want to tax 'lazy' single mothers and immigrants, but are quite happy to sit on a 5 figure CGT gain on their house 'cos they earned it, innit' Same lot that complain about feeding hungry kids, then pick up a furlough payment without batting an eyelid Keep screaming. HPC is coming for you. All true that. Did you see Fartrage and Piers Morgan yesterday? Lying on camera. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonsieurCopperCrutch Posted November 5, 2020 Share Posted November 5, 2020 The weirdest thing is the number of HPCers cheering for this rent farmer and his vile organisation. Unbelievable! Don't forget the rife Trumpy nepotism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dugsbody Posted November 5, 2020 Share Posted November 5, 2020 You see, I think HPC has changed because in the past different views were listened to and debated. Now you yourself are saying "the only sensible view is anti-Boris, and if you're not anti-Boris you don't belong on HPC". That isn't up to me and anyone can post here. You've done this a few times, attributing something to me that I'm not saying. I'm observing a trend as I saw it, having read this website from early days (one of the reasons I did not buy a flat I was looking at in 2005/06). The write-ups we used to get were far more detailed by people far more knowledgeable than I am and I enjoyed it. I did not notice nearly as much anti-immigrant, anti-science, anti-vax, climate change denial sentiment on the website back then. But, I was a patchy reader and not a contributor so perhaps I'm wrong. I stand by my statement that Boris the liar is part of the global elite, part of the mainstream right or centre right politicians that have controlled the West for most of the last 50 years. Back in 2007 there were bulls and bears with opposing views, but both were very much part of the community. Now there seems to be a campaign to create the "HPC image" and if you face doesn't fit it you don't belong. It's like a detestable London club. Garbage. How many threads and posts have we had on here ridiculing and despising London? We're continually told we're champagne socialist elites, prancing around with overpriced bread and coffee, living in a hellhole "Londonistan". If I point out people supporting liars because the liars are telling them their problems can all be solved by "owning the libs", blaming foreigners, blaming the EU, blaming boat people, claiming climate change is a left wing elite conspiracy to suppress the poor, etc, etc, then to you, this is me trying to "create an HPC image". Get real bud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonsieurCopperCrutch Posted November 5, 2020 Share Posted November 5, 2020 HPC is a different place to how it was before. It has always had an alternative view and people willing to dig deeper but some posters have gone off the deep end now. I don't know if they realise their decisions were all wrong and they've decided they just want to watch the world burn and will support anything that is anti-mainstream or if it's just part of the global swing towards anti-intellectualism. Take Boris the liar. No self respecting HPCer would have supported this buffoon 10-15 years ago. He would have been everything they despise, a rich, lying, corrupt toff, the embodiment of the establishment trying to make excuses for the failures. But somehow they've swung. He has now managed to convince these people that he is the solution to the problem and the problem is always outsiders, liberals, foreigners, pikininis, letter-boxes, etc. Ironically, the alt-right are the sheeple now, following blinding and barking when told to bark. They don't realise it yet but they will eventually. Great post. Spot on. Nail meets head. 👍 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpeggio Posted November 5, 2020 Share Posted November 5, 2020 Is there any nonsense conspiracy theory you dont go with? You mean some wards -which have low hundreds of people in, had more than 200% turnout compared to the last registered voter figures... given Wisconsin allows same day registration, its % of eligible voters that matters.. which is 70%. https://eu.jsonline.com/story/news/politics/elections/2020/11/04/fact-check-wisconsin-did-not-have-more-votes-than-registered-voters/6166062002/ And as you love twitter, how about the electoral commission there. Here's the title of the link gave: "Milwaukee districts report higher than 100%" (I should have said the word "districts" in my reference too) This has 7 wards with over 100% turnout: https://mkecitywire.com/stories/564495243-analysis-seven-milwaukee-wards-report-more-2020-presidential-votes-than-registered-voters-biden-nets-146k-votes-in-city Although when looking at the source quoted at the bottom of the chart everything is currently at "0" apart from registered voters for each ward (under 11-3-20 ward by ward). https://county.milwaukee.gov/EN/County-Clerk/Election-Commission/Election-Results/2020 https://county.milwaukee.gov/files/county/county-clerk/Election-Commission/ElectionResultsCopy-1/2020/11-3-20GeneralElection-WardbyWard-UnofficialResults.txt Another thing that is also different in that chart is that some of the wards now have more registered voters than originally quoted on the source reference of Milwaukee City Wire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captainb Posted November 5, 2020 Share Posted November 5, 2020 Here's the title of the link gave: "Milwaukee districts report higher than 100%" (I should have said the word "districts" in my reference too) This has 7 wards with over 100% turnout: https://mkecitywire.com/stories/564495243-analysis-seven-milwaukee-wards-report-more-2020-presidential-votes-than-registered-voters-biden-nets-146k-votes-in-city Although when looking at the source quoted at the bottom of the chart everything is currently at "0" apart from registered voters for each ward (under 11-3-20 ward by ward). https://county.milwaukee.gov/EN/County-Clerk/Election-Commission/Election-Results/2020 Another thing that is also different in that chart is that some of the wards now have more registered voters than quoted on the source reference. As people can and do get registered on polling day in that state... Seems to be a common theme with this twitter conspiracy, get some old data.. go LOOK the number is higher and casually forget to mention you are comparing an old list with current numbers of people. By casually i mean deliberately mislead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msi Posted November 5, 2020 Share Posted November 5, 2020 As people can and do get registered on polling day in that state... Seems to be a common theme with this twitter conspiracy, get some old data.. go LOOK the number is higher and casually forget to mention you are comparing an old list with current numbers of people. By casually i mean deliberately mislead. Standard Troll technique. Point out the flaw and you are badgered to 'provide' more proof, then called argumentative, then 'not allowing their free speech'. Having AI identifiy and label people with a 'Troll Technique Count' could be an interesting indicator to the value someone brings to a conversation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Young Turk Posted November 5, 2020 Share Posted November 5, 2020 Thing is, how many people actually really have time to consider the facts ? When voting, does everyone go out and read three party manifestos, or hundreds of pages of documentation on Brexit ? Or do they go to an "interpreter" who interprets the facts in the way they want them too producing new "facts" ? No human has the time or information processing power and cognitive capability to consider all the facts. We all have cognitive limitations and biases. But there is probably enough structure to the world that it is possible and worthwhile to understand how it works. Though "facts" are important, mechanisms are probably more important. Typical HPC posters probably know more facts about housing (specifics of policies, mortgage rules and regulations, etc.), but most importantly they have a better than average grasp of the mechanisms which drive the housing market. I don't think it takes too much time to grasp this knowledge. Most people don't have the time to consider the facts. they are too busy getting on with their lives working, looking after the house or educating their kids. There are probably a lot of "low information" voters who just make a quick decision and forget about it. But there are a lot of people who put a lot of time and effort into politics but seem to be emotion based (a lot people making long drives to campaign rallies, a lot of time on social media, buying and wearing hats, tshirts, signs for their lawn/car, yelling slogans). These people probably could have devoted this time to learning about the relevants facts and mechanisms instead. They make emotional based decisions on things like politics, and often find facts to support those decisions rather than the other way round. If people have time to find facts afterwards, they had time to find them beforehand. It seems to me the issue here is probably people having difficulty either changing their mind or admitting publicly that they changed their mind. Some people like to pretend they consider the facts, but most of the time they are just justifying a deeper emotional feeling with facts they have got from someone who may have already interpreted them in a way that aligns with their own emotions. They claim their viewpoint is "fact based" and sneer at people who have emotional driven viewpoints, even though their basis for determining the viewpoint is often exactly the same, just hidden with a veneer. Do you think this happens more in terms of general ideology or specific policy beliefs? Going back to housing, if some people oppose HTB etc. because they want lower house prices, I can't see how that is based on emotions in the same way that it would likely be in the case of a renter who supports HTB in the belief that nice kindly people who told him it would help were being sincere. For me, I don't see it as important as how people make the choice. Everyone has the choice to make and how they choose to make it is their business I'm not going to dictate to them how they should think about a problem, it's authoritarian and well as futile,. An emotional response is just as valid as a "fact based" one to me, especially when you consider it averaged over an entire population. People have systematic bias, so when emotional responses are averaged out over populations they magnify policies based on misconceptions (see The Myth of the Rational Voter by Bryan Caplan for evidence on voter systematic bias). It's futile if you try to dictate to someone how they should think about a problem. But it might not be if you frame it differently - you might get politicians who better represent you if you change the way you think about them. I think a similar argument along these lines has been quite successful. A lot of people choose not to vote or vote third party because they oppose the two main candidates (e.g. "I think Biden is preferable to Trump, but bad enough that I can't bear to vote for him."). I think a lot of these people have been persuaded to vote for the "lesser of two evils" when it was explained to them that as voting as "instrumental" they were voting against their own interest by treating voting as "expressive." It's not at all authoritarian (that would require you to have control over how they vote and think). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpeggio Posted November 5, 2020 Share Posted November 5, 2020 As people can and do get registered on polling day in that state... Seems to be a common theme with this twitter conspiracy, get some old data.. go LOOK the number is higher and casually forget to mention you are comparing an old list with current numbers of people. By casually i mean deliberately mislead. Not twitter it was Milwaukee City Wire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captainb Posted November 5, 2020 Share Posted November 5, 2020 Not twitter it was Milwaukee City Wire. You do realise that is not a news site or publication of any kind?..... all its "stories" are derived from a news bot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dugsbody Posted November 5, 2020 Share Posted November 5, 2020 As people can and do get registered on polling day in that state... Seems to be a common theme with this twitter conspiracy, get some old data.. go LOOK the number is higher and casually forget to mention you are comparing an old list with current numbers of people. By casually i mean deliberately mislead. That is the core of the problem. I'm being accused of trying to control the narrative because I have high standards about truth. If I must treat liars views as equal to my own then we might as well all give up any pretence of rational discussion and resort to anarchy. Having differing political opinions is natural, it is always going to happen. But why does one side seem so populated by liars? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpeggio Posted November 5, 2020 Share Posted November 5, 2020 You do realise that is not a news site or publication of any kind?..... all its "stories" are derived from a news bot. What is a news bot? https://mkecitywire.com/about_us Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pop321 Posted November 5, 2020 Share Posted November 5, 2020 Have they declared a state of emergency yet? President calling out election Fraud, riots over racial issues, gun crime, a country divided.....if this weren't the USA then the USA would have invaded by now and taken control of all the oil by now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captainb Posted November 5, 2020 Share Posted November 5, 2020 What is a news bot? https://mkecitywire.com/about_us You were conned. These take about 5 mins to set up - all of its "stories" are randomly generated by a bot from open source feeds... For example here are "stories in politics" (https://mkecitywire.com/stories/tag/126-politics ) other than the fake one you posted - below. Its not news. its not edited by a human. Its not a newspaper. its not even a real website. https://mkecitywire.com/stories/562718502-concerned-realtors-committee-receives-20-on-september-25 https://mkecitywire.com/stories/562718536-concerned-realtors-committee-receives-20-on-september-24 https://mkecitywire.com/stories/564180754-who-contributed-to-friends-of-orlando-owens-llc-during-the-week-ending-oct-24 https://mkecitywire.com/stories/562718516-concerned-realtors-committee-receives-40-on-september-25 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ticket2ride Posted November 5, 2020 Share Posted November 5, 2020 Trump's chances now 10%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chunketh Posted November 5, 2020 Share Posted November 5, 2020 Is there any nonsense conspiracy theory you dont go with? You mean some wards -which have low hundreds of people in, had more than 200% turnout compared to the last registered voter figures... given Wisconsin allows same day registration, its % of eligible voters that matters.. which is 70%. https://eu.jsonline.com/story/news/politics/elections/2020/11/04/fact-check-wisconsin-did-not-have-more-votes-than-registered-voters/6166062002/ And as you love twitter, how about the electoral commission there. Snopes already ripped this rubbish apart for Wisconsin yesterday. The twitterati decided to use the 2018 registration figures with 2020 turnout. Happily this is easily disproven but the damage to confidence will last ages. I just wish they could bring charges against those creating issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpeggio Posted November 5, 2020 Share Posted November 5, 2020 You were conned. These take about 5 mins to set up - all of its "stories" are randomly generated by a bot from open source feeds... For example here are "stories in politics" (https://mkecitywire.com/stories/tag/126-politics ) other than the fake one you posted - below. Its not news. its not edited by a human. Its not a newspaper. its not even a real website. I've no idea how to find out if Mkecitywire is not edited by a human. Are you saying it is not actually written by a human? Everything is at 0 for al Milwaukee voting wards at the moment so either it was officially published then disappeared or is yet to be published. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captainb Posted November 5, 2020 Share Posted November 5, 2020 I've no idea how to find out if Mkecitywire is not edited by a human. Are you saying it is not actually written by a human? Everything is at 0 for al Milwaukee voting wards at the moment so either it was officially published then disappeared or is yet to be published. I am saying its not a news website, it was set up to con people like yourself to believe it was - to get buy in for their made up 200% conspiracy theory. "Mkecitywire" has been created for that sole purpose and is populated by a bot getting random snippits of info off data feeds. The only story that was human written was the one conspiracy one that conned yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warlord Posted November 5, 2020 Share Posted November 5, 2020 We should know more today/later... Lets hope they only count legal votes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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