blackhole Posted October 8, 2020 Share Posted October 8, 2020 https://www.propertytribes.com/air-bnb-agree-data-share-with-hmrc-t-127649259.html Late, but better than never. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeanutButter Posted October 8, 2020 Share Posted October 8, 2020 Very good news. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moonriver Posted October 8, 2020 Share Posted October 8, 2020 Wonder how many owners will realise this is happening? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longgone Posted October 8, 2020 Share Posted October 8, 2020 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCountOfNowhere Posted October 8, 2020 Share Posted October 8, 2020 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Banner Posted October 8, 2020 Share Posted October 8, 2020 Retrospective, interesting precedent. That should put the cat amongst the pigeons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huggy Posted October 8, 2020 Share Posted October 8, 2020 (edited) He will not be affected by any UK rules, but I like to think this is the expression that every UK AirBnB landlord will give upon hearing this news (and I really, really, enjoy this lady's angry face). Edited October 8, 2020 by Huggy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longgone Posted October 8, 2020 Share Posted October 8, 2020 He will not be affected by any UK rules, but I like to think this is the expression that every UK AirBnB landlord will give upon hearing this news (and I really, really, enjoy this lady's angry face). fire boiling though our veins 😂 early covid adopter maybe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
highcontrast Posted October 8, 2020 Share Posted October 8, 2020 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adarmo Posted October 8, 2020 Share Posted October 8, 2020 Hahahahahahahahahahahaha Only thing worse than a property hoarder is a tax dodging property hoarder. Evasion, plus interest, plus penalties. That'll pay for the eat out to help out. Hahahahahahahahahahahaha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odysseus Posted October 8, 2020 Share Posted October 8, 2020 He will not be affected by any UK rules, but I like to think this is the expression that every UK AirBnB landlord will give upon hearing this news (and I really, really, enjoy this lady's angry face). Jesus - makes me want to book his AirBnB and then cancel last minute over and over again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captainb Posted October 8, 2020 Share Posted October 8, 2020 Most casual Air BnB renters will be under the £7,500 rent a room allowance. This will however be a big issue for those who do it commercially. Assuming HMRC actually act on the data. They have had land registry data for .. years and years.. and still dont pick up vast majority of landlords who are not declaring. Bob owns 5 houses, Bob doesnt complete a tax return... hmmm. its not rocket science guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackhole Posted October 8, 2020 Author Share Posted October 8, 2020 Assuming HMRC actually act on the data. They have had land registry data for .. years and years.. and still dont pick up vast majority of landlords who are not declaring. Bob owns 5 houses, Bob doesnt complete a tax return... hmmm. its not rocket science guys. I think they might have an incentive now. A £300bn+ one... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msi Posted October 8, 2020 Share Posted October 8, 2020 I think they might have an incentive now. A £300bn+ one... +1. With no political fallout. There's no rush, they can go back 20 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackhole Posted October 8, 2020 Author Share Posted October 8, 2020 +1. With no political fallout. There's no rush, they can go back 20 years. None whatsoever. 100% s24 (removal of tax incentives for BTL) impact as of April, correct? 🍿 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captainb Posted October 8, 2020 Share Posted October 8, 2020 None whatsoever. 100% s24 (removal of tax incentives for BTL) impact as of April, correct? 🍿 S24 only dips you down to tax relief as a lower earner so 20% flat rate etc. not 40/45%. Unless in a corporate shell then full relief deductible as an expense from profit. S24B could remove the remaining relief or apply to companies but not seen anything muted yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackhole Posted October 8, 2020 Author Share Posted October 8, 2020 S24 only dips you down to tax relief as a lower earner so 20% flat rate etc. not 40/45%. True, but its still going to be noticeable to some. Especially higher rate earners. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captainb Posted October 8, 2020 Share Posted October 8, 2020 True, but its still going to be noticeable to some. Especially higher rate earners. Oh fully agree. Just need to be careful not to overstate its impact - looks over at the "countdown to the end of leverage BTL" thread going since 2017 or whenever. BTL can be / still is, profitable for many despite the recent tax changes. less so for some but to suggest its game over is removed from reality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
satsuma Posted October 8, 2020 Share Posted October 8, 2020 So I read this and I thought what took so long and why would anyone care, we all pay our tax anyway.....of course the reality is there will be a percentage of people with multiple properties, all of which have an electronic trail of payments and little or no tax paid. An as for the room to rent allowance, again I will say, it does not apply to a second or third home you dont live in. it would be nice to think people would be held to account and have to pay their fair share. I have the same feelings on ebay, its used by people to sell stuff without paying due VAT and tax and it should be stopped. Both undermine legit business and rob us of tax which we then have to pay on their behalf. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackhole Posted October 8, 2020 Author Share Posted October 8, 2020 (edited) BTL can be / still is, profitable for many despite the recent tax changes. less so for some but to suggest its game over is removed from reality. Coming back to the Air BnB issue, I wonder how much BTL would still remain profitable with s24 + declaring income beyond the £7500 "room to rent" allowance? Edited October 8, 2020 by blackhole Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captainb Posted October 8, 2020 Share Posted October 8, 2020 So I read this and I thought what took so long and why would anyone care, we all pay our tax anyway.....of course the reality is there will be a percentage of people with multiple properties, all of which have an electronic trail of payments and little or no tax paid. An as for the room to rent allowance, again I will say, it does not apply to a second or third home you dont live in. it would be nice to think people would be held to account and have to pay their fair share. I have the same feelings on ebay, its used by people to sell stuff without paying due VAT and tax and it should be stopped. Both undermine legit business and rob us of tax which we then have to pay on their behalf. Yes. And if this is a second home then one would suggest the £7.5k wouldn't be enough anyway. Although a "legit loophole" is a couple both owning property. Each as their primary residence, both get the £7.5k for renting out the other property while staying with the other half. Seems "far fetched" but consider how many people move in with a partner but keep their own flat etc etc. Far from unheard of to split the time between both properties and Air B and B the other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captainb Posted October 8, 2020 Share Posted October 8, 2020 Coming back to the Air BnB issue, I wonder how much BTL would still remain profitable with s24 + declaring income beyond the £7500 "room to rent" allowance? You have to delve into how much leverage is there. If none, S24 makes no difference so thats a whole chunk still profitable. If you bought pre 2000 tiny mortgage, interest rates are 2-3% even for BTL.. tax allowance, who cares frankly. Commercial large scale landlords will all have a company structure.. so again no change for them. So you are left asking - whats the % of the market that is in personal name i.e small scale and highly leveraged. Then whats the margin on that sub section and if S24 pushes them into a loss. Would suggest not a huge chunk. As for this Air B an B stuff.. hopefully it ends the ruse of someone renting a large property say 5 bed on an AST, then Air B and B ing it or renting the rooms out separately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longgone Posted October 8, 2020 Share Posted October 8, 2020 First they came for airbnb then crypto to follow, stand on as many toes as you like no one cares. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackhole Posted October 8, 2020 Author Share Posted October 8, 2020 (edited) You have to delve into how much leverage is there. If none, S24 makes no difference so thats a whole chunk still profitable. If you bought pre 2000 tiny mortgage, interest rates are 2-3% even for BTL.. tax allowance, who cares frankly. Commercial large scale landlords will all have a company structure.. so again no change for them. So you are left asking - whats the % of the market that is in personal name i.e small scale and highly leveraged. Then whats the margin on that sub section and if S24 pushes them into a loss. Would suggest not a huge chunk. As for this Air B an B stuff.. hopefully it ends the ruse of someone renting a large property say 5 bed on an AST, then Air B and B ing it or renting the rooms out separately. With all due, your attempting to paint this as "little effect, move along here" once again. But does anyone actually have facts to prove this or otherwise in the UK? I guess not.... Edited October 8, 2020 by blackhole Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captainb Posted October 8, 2020 Share Posted October 8, 2020 (edited) With all due, your attempting to paint this as "little effect, move along here" once again. But does anyone actually have facts to prove this or otherwise in the UK? I guess not.... Not really. Think who the law actually impacts - those with personal BTL assets, not held in a corporate shell, with large mortgages and higher rate taxpayers. Everyone else there is no/very little impact. You need to work out what % of the market fits all the criteria at the centre of the venn diagram to get the impact. If you read on here its game over for everyone who must sell up yesterday. Would suggest reality is somewhat different as seen by the sales or lack of over the last 3 years as this has been implemented. BTL was 20% of housing stock in 2017 when the phasing in started, BTL is still 20% of the housing stock today. Personally i would like to see all tax relief withdrawn. its bonkers it exists. But there you go Edited October 8, 2020 by captainb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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