Housebuilders share 2.6 Billion

[2rocketman]

https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/news/article-6660745/Housebuilders-pay-record-2-6-BILLION-investors-despite-housing-shortage.html

[PeanutButter]

Amazing what £20 Billion of UK taxpayer money will do. 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/money/blog/2017/oct/21/help-to-buy-property-new-build-price-rise

Quote

Those billions have not helped buyers. The money has gone almost entirely into the pockets of the giant housebuilding firms, which have raised the price of developments by almost exactly the amount made available by the government. All it has meant for first-time buyers is more misery – by pushing up house prices.

 

[Arpeggio]

Shouldn't that be...

"Housebuilders to pay record £2.6BILLION to investors – because of housing shortage"

[29929BlackTuesday]

You won't find this headlined in the BBC. Most of the executives I suspect benefit from insider knowledge and backhanders.

I think anyone with half a brain knew help to buy was a scam.

[Smiley George]

How this is not a national scandal is beyond me.

I've been reading a very interesting book (Red Notice - I'd highly recommend) about the scale of corruption in Russia and the collusion between the oligarchs and the Kremlin, it also focuses on the murder of Sergei Magnitsky who helped uncover one of the fraudulent tax schemes, and some of the stuff which went on is almost beyond belief.

I then look at what's going on in this country and its even worse, at least in Russia they tried to hide what was going on, this is in plain view of the tax payer and nobody gives a sh1t....wtf is going on??

 

 

[Killian]

Help to buy has been entirely planned to help politicians and their friends

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2017/08/05/modern-day-barons-inside-murky-underbelly-land-promotion/amp/

[longgone]

why is this not being pursued for the openly corrupt idea it always was. 

A National disgrace. 

[Wayward]

52 minutes ago, longgone said:

why is this not being pursued for the openly corrupt idea it always was. 

A National disgrace. 

I think it will in time...patience.  No good could ever come of such a cynical evil scheme, it will turn horribly sour and it will come back to haunt the Conservatives.

[longgone]

18 minutes ago, Wayward said:

I think it will in time...patience.  No good could ever come of such a cynical evil scheme, it will turn horribly sour and it will come back to haunt the Conservatives.

will debt forgiveness be instigated though.  a free market pawwww. 

[29929BlackTuesday]

41 minutes ago, Wayward said:

I think it will in time...patience.  No good could ever come of such a cynical evil scheme, it will turn horribly sour and it will come back to haunt the Conservatives.

Perhaps Q will have them indicted and send them all to Gitmo. 

 

[dougless]

56 minutes ago, Wayward said:

I think it will in time...patience.  No good could ever come of such a cynical evil scheme, it will turn horribly sour and it will come back to haunt the Conservatives.

I do hope your right, I would love to see the Tories in the wilderness.  I just realised that they already are!

[Dorkins]

2 hours ago, longgone said:

why is this not being pursued for the openly corrupt idea it always was. 

A National disgrace. 

Hiding in plain sight. If a Chancellor of the Exchequer announced it in a budget speech and it has a nice cuddly logo plastered on every new build advertising board it can't possibly be dodgy or surely somebody would be doing something about it. Human psychology at its finest. Like smelling smoke in a crowded building but nobody else is heading for the exits and the authorities are saying everything is under control so people just stay put.

Edited February 5, 2019 by Dorkins

[happyguy]

3 hours ago, 29929BlackTuesday said:

Most of the executives I suspect benefit from insider knowledge and backhanders.

LOL of course they are the BBC is full capitalists LOL

2 hours ago, Smiley George said:

I then look at what's going on in this country and its even worse, at least in Russia they tried to hide what was going on, this is in plain view of the tax payer and nobody gives a sh1t....wtf is going on??

People invest in companies to make a return on investment they are not charities

 

[longgone]

23 minutes ago, Dorkins said:

Hiding in plain sight. If a Chancellor of the Exchequer announced it in a budget speech and it has a nice cuddly logo plastered on every new build advertising board it can't possibly be dodgy or surely somebody would be doing something about it. Human psychology at its finest. Like smelling smoke in a crowded building but nobody else is heading for the exits and the authorities are saying everything is under control so people just stay put.

personally i always wanted to do the complete opposite of what everyone else was doing.  it may pay off one day i`m not holding out much hope mind you. 

[Smiley George]

1 hour ago, happyguy said:

People invest in companies to make a return on investment they are not charities

Not sure I get your point, how is that relevant to HTB?

This is a case of tax payers unwittingly and/or blindly subsidising a scheme whereby the only "winners" are the execs and shareholders. There's no investment going on, Persimmon's share price declined last year, yet they're awarding themselves massive handouts taken directly from the public purse.

[b_real]

2 hours ago, Wayward said:

I think it will in time...patience.  No good could ever come of such a cynical evil scheme, it will turn horribly sour and it will come back to haunt the Conservatives.

The worst bit about it tho, will be that everyone who's bought using HTB will probably be let off the hook, re-compensated even, while those who saw it as the scam it was and either saved harder or bought more prudently and independently (at still inflated prices) will be left to rot. 

[Orb]

1 hour ago, b_real said:

The worst bit about it tho, will be that everyone who's bought using HTB will probably be let off the hook, re-compensated even, while those who saw it as the scam it was and either saved harder or bought more prudently and independently (at still inflated prices) will be left to rot. 

Yep! One thing I've learnt in life is that the sensible and prudent almost always get shafted. It seems a universal principle of the human condition. 

[bushblairandbrown]

1 hour ago, Orb said:

Yep! One thing I've learnt in life is that the sensible and prudent almost always get shafted. It seems a universal principle of the human condition. 

I'm not so sure. You have to actively avoid the most ludicrous places like London and the South East. If you realise a game is rigged and you still try to play, I don't think you can complain that you got screwed. Sitting there and complaining that it's not fair gets you nowhere. 

[Wayward]

20 minutes ago, bushblairandbrown said:

I'm not so sure. You have to actively avoid the most ludicrous places like London and the South East. If you realise a game is rigged and you still try to play, I don't think you can complain that you got screwed. Sitting there and complaining that it's not fair gets you nowhere. 

Well hopefully not sitting passively complaining...we need to campaign and agitate against this injustice.

[Pop321]

16 hours ago, b_real said:

The worst bit about it tho, will be that everyone who's bought using HTB will probably be let off the hook, re-compensated even, while those who saw it as the scam it was and either saved harder or bought more prudently and independently (at still inflated prices) will be left to rot. 

 

14 hours ago, bushblairandbrown said:

I'm not so sure. You have to actively avoid the most ludicrous places like London and the South East. If you realise a game is rigged and you still try to play, I don't think you can complain that you got screwed. Sitting there and complaining that it's not fair gets you nowhere. 

My guess is somewhere in the middle.

The HTB debt could be carried over like a student debt (but for life) and live with the person until they move into a nursing home. 

The tax payer may never get their money back (so there is a loss) but the debt lives with the borrower for life. 

HTB is an absolute disaster in my town. I even respond to housebuilder on right move adverts asking why the price is so high and send them details of houses literally over the road which are £100k less AND BIGGER.

One example is a 50% share costing £179k for a 3 bed semi (also available for £359k). Across the road is a slighter bigger 3 bed semi for £220k but built in 2000. 

The new houses are dressed beautifully....I mean like beyond the old ‘coffee roasting dmell’ and ‘nice neutral creams’.  They have chandeliers, grey kitchens, grey blinds, wood burners with oak mantle over, egg shell paint not gloss, off greys, old leather luggage staged in the spare bedroom with desk and map of the world....infact whoever designed them deserves every penny of their wage....but it’s all decor and no substance. The garages aren’t wide enough, the gardens not big enough (but beautifully staged) and the price is too high.

Saddest part (this is the 50 year old man in me) is that all the sold ones have a pair of brand new cars outside...I don't judge (indeed they are as likely to be company cars as private) but it indicates possible attitude towards debt and risk.

A young couple (about 32/33) have bought a 1930’s detached across from us a year ago. It was scruffy and in my mind they overpaid (but everyone does) but it was a ‘relative’ reasonable buy at £300k. Went round at Christmas and it was stunning, just like the show homes...this couple are annoyingly perfect, pretty, 2 kids, clean little dog etc and they told me they had viewed a ‘new home’ and couldn’t believe how daft the offer was...so bought this bigger home and ‘wasted’ £10k on making it how those show home did. Nice to see a break in my stereotype and that’s why I ‘try’ not to judge...good for them I thought as they now have a 1500 sq ft detached instead of a 850 sq ft semi box. 

I see the blame the government and it’s HTB schemes, I blame the house builders but I also see some blame in those buying.  

Who buys these over priced matchboxes? 

Edited February 6, 2019 by Pop321

[2rocketman]

10 hours ago, Pop321 said:

 

My guess is somewhere in the middle.

The HTB debt could be carried over like a student debt (but for life) and live with the person until they move into a nursing home. 

The tax payer may never get their money back (so there is a loss) but the debt lives with the borrower for life. 

HTB is an absolute disaster in my town. I even respond to housebuilder on right move adverts asking why the price is so high and send them details of houses literally over the road which are £100k less AND BIGGER.

One example is a 50% share costing £179k for a 3 bed semi (also available for £359k). Across the road is a slighter bigger 3 bed semi for £220k but built in 2000. 

The new houses are dressed beautifully....I mean like beyond the old ‘coffee roasting dmell’ and ‘nice neutral creams’.  They have chandeliers, grey kitchens, grey blinds, wood burners with oak mantle over, egg shell paint not gloss, off greys, old leather luggage staged in the spare bedroom with desk and map of the world....infact whoever designed them deserves every penny of their wage....but it’s all decor and no substance. The garages aren’t wide enough, the gardens not big enough (but beautifully staged) and the price is too high.

Saddest part (this is the 50 year old man in me) is that all the sold ones have a pair of brand new cars outside...I don't judge (indeed they are as likely to be company cars as private) but it indicates possible attitude towards debt and risk.

A young couple (about 32/33) have bought a 1930’s detached across from us a year ago. It was scruffy and in my mind they overpaid (but everyone does) but it was a ‘relative’ reasonable buy at £300k. Went round at Christmas and it was stunning, just like the show homes...this couple are annoyingly perfect, pretty, 2 kids, clean little dog etc and they told me they had viewed a ‘new home’ and couldn’t believe how daft the offer was...so bought this bigger home and ‘wasted’ £10k on making it how those show home did. Nice to see a break in my stereotype and that’s why I ‘try’ not to judge...good for them I thought as they now have a 1500 sq ft detached instead of a 850 sq ft semi box. 

I see the blame the government and it’s HTB schemes, I blame the house builders but I also see some blame in those buying.  

Who buys these over priced matchboxes? 

Unfortunately those only able to finance 60% and probably without any spare funds available to renovate, barely scrapping the 5% deposit together let alone stamp duty. 

Partly due to lifestyle, having new cars on pcp etc.

They think they’re buying the dream you describe not realising it will turn into a nightmare further down the line.  

 

 

[Pop321]

5 hours ago, 2rocketman said:

Unfortunately those only able to finance 60% and probably without any spare funds available to renovate, barely scrapping the 5% deposit together let alone stamp duty. 

Partly due to lifestyle, having new cars on pcp etc.

They think they’re buying the dream you describe not realising it will turn into a nightmare further down the line.  

Agree. I think you are right or describe their perception of right and their perceived options. I have just seen a 3 bed semi listed at £199k today and it’s fairly modern ie 15 years old...so a 5% deposit and finance required would still beat that new build asking £360k ish. 

I guess what a buyer doesn't believe is that the 2 houses are comparable.

They probably believe if houses go up say 10% then they will make money, even on the new build. What they don’t understand is that in 10 years time IF prices rose 10% overall then both houses are then worth £220k. The existing house has crept up...and the new build has plummeted because it’s no longer has a new build shine or marketing. 

Alot of that really poor value has been hidden due to daft HPI in the past....but new builds haven’t performed relatively as well. 

Never mind.....at least it’s shiny and new today. 

[longgone]

All housebuilders up sharply this morning.

How will boris try to sure up his friends this time ?

[steve99]

On 13/12/2019 at 09:00, longgone said:

All housebuilders up sharply this morning.

How will boris try to sure up his friends this time ?

Schemes and scams to continue. House builders will continue to make more profit by not building houses, drip feeding the market, land banking and government handouts. ie  modern parasitical capitalism at work, gets the full stamp of aproval from a political party that is not interested in real capitalism.  That involves competition . All they know is corrupt crony capitalism.

[Pop321]

14 minutes ago, steve99 said:

Schemes and scams to continue. House builders will continue to make more profit by not building houses, drip feeding the market, land banking and government handouts. ie  modern parasitical capitalism at work, gets the full stamp of aproval from a political party that is not interested in real capitalism.  That involves competition . All they know is corrupt crony capitalism.

You need to read the Daily Mail...you have it all wrong.

My frustration with the current system...another thread I think...anyone who didn’t think Jeremy was treated unfairly by the press needs to challenge their echo chamber. 

Ignoring the ‘working class leave vote’ in the North and snobbishly thinking it was ‘stupid’ cost the swing. Labour missed that by a mile  

Jeremy wasn’t my messiah (I am a central liberal leftie) nor am I defending him and indeed he couldn’t win over any Tory votes...but why so vilified? I am always suspicious of the media write what they do? What were they scared of? (No not the stuff you read...I know all that...but REALLY WHY  the campaign?) 

We need a left/right and middle...each state a case and the public decide. If TPTB get there way we won’t have that choice anymore. I thought it was refreshing to have a socialist ‘option’...let the people decide. They did.   

Never mind...I will make more money for 5 years. Looking forward With real fear to the next HTB scheme ‘for the young people’ ?