Stores Closing at Record Pace as AMAZON Chews Up Retailers...

[nnails]

One of our customers sells though amazon. They are scum to deal with. You have to do all the paper work and contact is through email to Indian call center. Horrible . I also have old uni mate who lives near Swansea. He say half of the town as worked there at one stage and they such bad rep the have ship in immigrants to work there 

[Guest TheBlueCat]

35 minutes ago, nnails said:

One of our customers sells though amazon. They are scum to deal with. You have to do all the paper work and contact is through email to Indian call center. Horrible . I also have old uni mate who lives near Swansea. He say half of the town as worked there at one stage and they such bad rep the have ship in immigrants to work there 

I know quite a few people who've worked for Amazon in tech and the general view is that it's pretty horrible all round. That doesn't suggest that Amazon has a long term sustainable business model to me - expect a big blow up at some point in the next 5-10 years.

[Sancho Panza]

59 minutes ago, Dorkins said:

Is this really about Amazon? The 2001 and 2008 peaks in closures correspond with recessions. Kind of suggests that we're tipping into a monster of a recession...

It's about Amazon cutting retail throats but actually,when you look at the chart the way you clearly do,yes,looks like there's incoming.

[wherebee]

I have also, when talking to Ameircan friends, heard security concerns as a driver for not going to the mall.  Seriously.

There was a gang fight in an upscale mall in Long Island a few months ago and I know some people who live near it - they were talking as if the barbarian hordes had entered Rome, and they were not going back to risk a repeat.

[Greg Bowman]

6 hours ago, Sancho Panza said:

It's about Amazon cutting retail throats but actually,when you look at the chart the way you clearly do,yes,looks like there's incoming.

I think the Amazon meme is a little bit of a red herring but still a factor as a changes in Mall attitudes not nessarily a recession indicator

Bit like globalisation for unemployment but the biggie will be automation, high income families have got bored with malls

As a family we were all over them in the 90's and 2000's but crowded places full of tat increasingly given over to show room stocks with no stock

Same with big food superstores, people eating healthy, using hello fresh etc and the local metro stores, Co-ops our way particularly good at picking and stocking these smaller locations

If I clothe shop would rather go to the centre of London, Birmingham or Manchester perhaps as part of a leisure trip

The one area where Amazon and other retailers have hit malls is probably the 14-30 fashion stuff if my daughter is anything to go by, almost exclusively buying online

interstingly - Tesla started a trend with car dealers coming into Malls, no not just showrooms, Bentley have a full blown one at Westfield Shepherd's Bush with a styling off shoot and the cars stored in the nice parking below 

[stuckmojo]

The whole point of the high street as retail is being questioned, these days. 

There are very few things I can't buy online. As said above, mostly clothes - trousers and shirts, the odd suit - and wine. 

Guitars, maybe, as one has to try. But I don't buy a guitar a week - much as I'd love to. I even bought my wife's car online and got it delivered home - it was 2nd hand from a dealer and new law means I could send it back if it wasn't what was described. 

As for the rest, online please. Two things in life I hate (and I use the term sparingly): Cleaning and shopping. 

 

[WinstonSmith]

19 hours ago, Arpeggio said:

Amazon is not a company that uses loss leading, Amazon IS loss leading incarnate. It's all about the stock price with a price to earnings ratio of 511

Amazon didn't legally have to pay the US equivalent of VAT for a long time. There are still a few US states where it still doesn't have to.

Only recently has it been made to:   http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2017/03/30/amazon-collecting-sales-tax-united-states/

Here's a chart of Amazons income / profit vs its revenue / turnover.

They also have a lot of debt:   http://www.wikinvest.com/stock/Amazon.com_(AMZN)/Data/Long-Term_Debt   the highest of the big companies shown on there.

Here's its share price

If profit is to business as oxygen is to humans, then competing against Amazon is like competing against a dead body in a breath holding competition. They will always win.

If we were living in normal times then Amazon would be one hell of a short to take.

 

Sadly we aren't living in anything like normal times......

[Hullabaloo82]

More hpc cognitive dissonance;

"I think it's terrible that the government is running up so much debt and there is such a preponderance of poor quality jobs that people can't afford to save or buy a house.

What am I going to do about it? Shop exclusively at online retailers (Who often pay very little in UK corporation tax) and hard discounters, both of whom undercut locally owned small businesses and contribute to the concentration of wealth in an ever smaller number of hands. Because it's cheaper, sorry, I meant that's the frugal thing to do because I don't want to end a government debt slave. Man."

 

 

[spyguy]

15 minutes ago, Hullabaloo82 said:

More hpc cognitive dissonance;

"I think it's terrible that the government is running up so much debt and there is such a preponderance of poor quality jobs that people can't afford to save or buy a house.

What am I going to do about it? Shop exclusively at online retailers (Who often pay very little in UK corporation tax) and hard discounters, both of whom undercut locally owned small businesses and contribute to the concentration of wealth in an ever smaller number of hands. Because it's cheaper, sorry, I meant that's the frugal thing to do because I don't want to end a government debt slave. Man."

 

 

Not this again.

Amazon pay little corp tax as they are not making a profit.

In the grand scheme of things, corp tax raises less than incom and ni and vat.

[Hullabaloo82]

28 minutes ago, spyguy said:

Not this again.

Amazon pay little corp tax as they are not making a profit.

In the grand scheme of things, corp tax raises less than incom and ni and vat.

Amazon pays little in the way of corporation tax because it's a low margin retailer which uses its vast scale to corner huge swathes of the market, destroying smaller, independent retailers  (See bookshops) in the process. 

It also has a habit of paying it's staff ****** all and is now in the habit of replacing it's staff with robots where possible so paye and ni receipts are poor for an entity of its size. 

Vat mostly supports our contribution to the eu which I thought was haram on here? 

[spyguy]

7 minutes ago, Hullabaloo82 said:

Amazon pays little in the way of corporation tax because it's a low margin retailer which uses its vast scale to corner huge swathes of the market, destroying smaller, independent retailers  (See bookshops) in the process. 

It also has a habit of paying it's staff ****** all and is now in the habit of replacing it's staff with robots where possible so paye and ni receipts are poor for an entity of its size. 

Vat mostly supports our contribution to the eu which I thought was haram on here? 

No. It doesnt make a profit. Vast loss leader.

As far as staff pay goes .. have a chat with someone in retail.

I dont understand your VAT EU claim. Tinfoil hattish.

[Dorkins]

1 hour ago, Hullabaloo82 said:

More hpc cognitive dissonance;

"I think it's terrible that the government is running up so much debt and there is such a preponderance of poor quality jobs that people can't afford to save or buy a house.

What am I going to do about it? Shop exclusively at online retailers (Who often pay very little in UK corporation tax) and hard discounters, both of whom undercut locally owned small businesses and contribute to the concentration of wealth in an ever smaller number of hands. Because it's cheaper, sorry, I meant that's the frugal thing to do because I don't want to end a government debt slave. Man."

And your solution is what? Pay high prices to bricks and mortar stores, selflessly reducing my material standard of living so that local commercial landlords can maintain uncompetitive rents?

The government's poor financial state is of its own making. If they had the guts to tax land properly they'd have more than enough money.

Edited April 9, 2017 by Dorkins

[CunningPlan]

5 hours ago, stuckmojo said:

The whole point of the high street as retail is being questioned, these days. 

There are very few things I can't buy online. As said above, mostly clothes - trousers and shirts, the odd suit - and wine. 

Guitars, maybe, as one has to try. But I don't buy a guitar a week - much as I'd love to. I even bought my wife's car online and got it delivered home - it was 2nd hand from a dealer and new law means I could send it back if it wasn't what was described. 

As for the rest, online please. Two things in life I hate (and I use the term sparingly): Cleaning and shopping. 

 

I haven't been to a shopping centre for many years for two reasons. Firstly, I don't really need anything they sell and secondly my wife has banned me.

But the reason I am banned is because of other people. The sheer ignorance of so many - either parking their buggies in doorways whilst they have fags, or my pet hate - walking whilst texting, expecting me to avoid them. After the first few near misses I just brace my shoulders and keep walking. 

My local centre (Woking) is pretty much full of the sort of people that I wouldn't want to spend time around (yes, I probably am a snob) that it just makes me angry and/or depressed for society.

I also can't stand idly by whilst someone behaves in an anti social manner - be it swearing in front of my kids, littering, putting feet on seats etc. I need to say something.

Given this, you will no doubt understand why my wife doesn't let me out (and she doesn't shop either)

 

[spyguy]

9 minutes ago, CunningPlan said:

I haven't been to a shopping centre for many years for two reasons. Firstly, I don't really need anything they sell and secondly my wife has banned me.

But the reason I am banned is because of other people. The sheer ignorance of so many - either parking their buggies in doorways whilst they have fags, or my pet hate - walking whilst texting, expecting me to avoid them. After the first few near misses I just brace my shoulders and keep walking. 

My local centre (Woking) is pretty much full of the sort of people that I wouldn't want to spend time around (yes, I probably am a snob) that it just makes me angry and/or depressed for society.

I also can't stand idly by whilst someone behaves in an anti social manner - be it swearing in front of my kids, littering, putting feet on seats etc. I need to say something.

Given this, you will no doubt understand why my wife doesn't let me out (and she doesn't shop either)

 

Im not a snob  ... but I am employed .. unlike most of the people who spend their time aimlessly stumbling around town centres mon-fri.

[LiveinHope]

In my home city there is little reason to visit if you neither need a cup of coffee, nor want to buy costume jewellery, plastic shoes, 'fashion wear', mobile phones, second hand bric a brac, or goods for under a pound.

The icing on the cake for me however, which means I do all my shopping other than groceries online, are the city centre parking charges.

[xiox]

Amazon isn't only an online retailer. It is also the biggest cloud computing provider. Lots of companies use their computing facilities. Without it they would have had a loss last year: http://www.geekwire.com/2016/amazon-without-aws-online-retailer-posted-big-loss-not-booming-cloud-business/ However, this could become more of a commodity in the future.

[canbuywontbuy]

23 hours ago, ChewingGrass said:

Average income has been falling for years, ask yourself why the cheap shops do well, with low sq footage, minimal lines, low staffing selling bottom end products. All the raving about ALDI/LIDL is self-justification all fur no knickers syndrome.

The UK is full of people poncing around on the products of cheap credit who have little if any spare cash in their pockets.

Spend a day at your local petrol station and count how many people (many driving high end german steel) who drive in every day and put a tenners worth in their tank, the cashiers think it is hillarious.

This is why the high street is littered with 99p and charity shops, and why Lidl/Aldi are so popular - people's incomes relative to inflation has been dropping precipitously since 2008.  And people still want house prices to outpace wages by several times - as if that's going to do any good to the economy. 

[winkie]

Neutral here, more choices the better I say......if not for certain choices people would buy far less than they do already.....they would go without, but not necessarily feel worse off for it.

[durhamborn]

On 4/8/2017 at 1:33 PM, Habeas Domus said:

As above, Amazon is a company running on a mountain of debt, if at some point the interest they have to pay starts rising, then they will have to start charging higher prices. They will probably still be able to undercut the high street because they have no rates to pay and will get discount delivery rates.

Saying that I do find a lot of things are now cheaper on other websites, food on amazon is as much as 4 X the price of specialist online food retailers, and a lot of other items can be found for better prices by looking around. Many of the bigger brands are getting wise and setting up their own online website so they don't have to pay Amazon a cut of every sale.

Amazon makes most of its money from 3rd party sellers.The fees are huge about 18%,and that just to sell an item on there.They cant really compete with 3rd party sellers themselves.Thats why they are always ringing me asking to partner with them,and i say no thanks i dont want to get any bigger.

Ebay could of stopped Amazon a bit,but their management are beyond stupid.If they cut fees right down,pushed auctions again and did some deal with a top courier for collection/delivery they could turn the screw on Amazon.As it is though Amazon are cleaning up.I sell 80% of my turnover on there now.Not great as a seller having such a big percentage with them,but thats the way it is.Nobody comes close to them.

[Riedquat]

I'd prefer high streets were more viable; I tend to buy online mostly when it's for something I can't get that easily elsewhere, and the change to every town and city just becoming a dormitory is depressing. Malls are the worst of all worlds in many ways.

[winkie]

18 minutes ago, Riedquat said:

I'd prefer high streets were more viable; I tend to buy online mostly when it's for something I can't get that easily elsewhere, and the change to every town and city just becoming a dormitory is depressing. Malls are the worst of all worlds in many ways.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sick_building_syndrome

 

[Sterling Loss]

10 hours ago, Hullabaloo82 said:

More hpc cognitive dissonance;

"I think it's terrible that the government is running up so much debt and there is such a preponderance of poor quality jobs that people can't afford to save or buy a house.

What am I going to do about it? Shop exclusively at online retailers (Who often pay very little in UK corporation tax) and hard discounters, both of whom undercut locally owned small businesses and contribute to the concentration of wealth in an ever smaller number of hands. Because it's cheaper, sorry, I meant that's the frugal thing to do because I don't want to end a government debt slave. Man."

 

 

Could this be seen as deflationary pressure in the economy rather than my cognitive dissonance? The economic recovery needed to for me to buy a house is not likely to take place from my limited (and ever decreasing) discretionary spending at local businesses rather than spending the same amount online.  It is reasonable to expect house prices to fall to an affordable amount.

The cognitive dissonance lies with government (and others) in expecting house prices to be maintained/ever increasing by people with reducing disposable incomes from poor jobs. Their response is money creation to maintain the fantasy.

[Tulip_mania]

As a consumer amazon offer a very attractive service, I can order something tonight and on Tuesday it will be in a locker at the railway station I go through to commute to work. Add in streaming TV to create a bit of customer lock in, I'm also listening to streaming music which comes as part of that deal. The only annoyance I have with them is that 3rd party seller stuff can't be delivered to the amazon lockers.

Their warehouses are clearly not the best place to work, but are they any worse than Sports Direct? At some point they might have to start turning an actual profit, which would push prices up and enable better competition. I tend to use online grocery delivery from supermarkets (though rotating through them until I get 'please come back' discounts) who have actually managed the delivery slot system in a way amazon and their competitors never really have, the issue is that no other company has really replicated their 'one stop shop' function online to provide competition, except perhaps alibaba in China.

 

[stormymonday_2011]

23 hours ago, TheBlueCat said:

I know quite a few people who've worked for Amazon in tech and the general view is that it's pretty horrible all round. That doesn't suggest that Amazon has a long term sustainable business model to me - expect a big blow up at some point in the next 5-10 years.

Amazon are far from always being the cheapest place to buy goods online now even if you just confine your purchases from the online outlets of established UK retailers let alone specialist online suppliers and discounters. To some extent they rely on people being lazy and using them as a default online retailer.

[reddog]

19 hours ago, wherebee said:

I have also, when talking to Ameircan friends, heard security concerns as a driver for not going to the mall.  Seriously.

There was a gang fight in an upscale mall in Long Island a few months ago and I know some people who live near it - they were talking as if the barbarian hordes had entered Rome, and they were not going back to risk a repeat.

I can't help thinking people are moving away from physical shops, just as much as they are moving online.

 

Used to love shopping for cd's and computer games when i was a kid, on a Saturday with friends.

 

Up until recently, when in my home town of Brum i would have a look around just for the hell of it.  But i got to thinking what is the point of paying £5 for parking when you might not even buy anything.

 

I wonder what these terror attacks will have on shoppers.  It has got to be in the back of some people's minds.