Brexit What Happens Next Thread ---multiple merged threads.

[Dweller]

2 hours ago, NoHPCinTheUK said:

Where can I read about this deal with the EU?

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2023/feb/27/rishi-sunak-brexit-ursula-von-der-leyen-eu-northern-ireland-brexit-deal-uk-politics-live#top-of-blog

Government publishes full details of 'Windsor framework' deal on NI protocol

Here is the full text of Rishi Sunak’s statement at the opening of his press conference.

Here is the UK government’s 27-page document on the Windsor framework.

Here is the five-page political declaration agreed by the European Commission and the UK.

And here is the 74-page legal text.

Further documents related to the deal are here, on the government’s website.

[IMHAL]

3 hours ago, Confusion of VIs said:

Hard to tell if you are just trolling or actually believe the stuff you post. How exactly has our membership of the EU got anything to do with this?

Looking across the member states, it is clear they have more than enough soverign freedom to pursue  good or bad industrial poicies. 

To paraphase your views, we have spent 20/30yrs pursuing the wrong industrial policies and adding huge amounts of red tape and other frictions to our trade with the EU and losing a 500m home market will somehow help with that.       

That is what is confusing @Cocha. He seems to think domestic policy is somehow the EU's fault. Crazy dude.

[MARTINX9]

7 hours ago, pig said:

You think Brexit was a project by socialists with the aim of reducing inequality ?

You will probably have to ask all those socialists who supported it for their entire political lives. A bit late for Peter Shore, Tony Benn or Bob Crow but Dennis Skinner and Jeremy Corbyn still around.

Their brand of socialism would be a lot easier to deliver outside the EU - as Syriza found out in Greece.

Edited February 27, 2023 by MARTINX9

[thecrashingisles]

In light of the new deal on Northern Ireland, will people who used to bang on about the intractable 'trilemma' admit that they had an overly simplistic view of things?

[Trampa501]

So far sunak's getting praise from all directions. Wonder if that will remain once the Dup extremists and Erg nutters dig deep into the small print?

Interesting that  NI remains part of the single market, as well as part of the union. Will remainers consider relocating there? At the least, should be a lot of job opportunity there...

[Confusion of VIs]

9 minutes ago, Trampa501 said:

So far sunak's getting praise from all directions. Wonder if that will remain once the Dup extremists and Erg nutters dig deep into the small print?

Interesting that  NI remains part of the single market, as well as part of the union. Will remainers consider relocating there? At the least, should be a lot of job opportunity there...

All apart from the complete nutcases in the ERG have reached a point where they just want their self confected NI problem to go away.  They are going to proceed with the deal whatever the ERG think. The ERG know this so there isn't anything in it for them by opposing it.  

NI continuing to be in the single market was what the ERG and DUP had hoped to avoid and the reason for inventing the NIP problems. From the DUP's point of view, closer ties with EiIre (EU) and properity coming from that is a disaster.   

[Huggy]

That we haven't got a new 8 page thread already, filled with furious outpourings like "The Big Tomato Thread", or the few pages a couple of years ago here like "The Big Vodafone £1 Per Day Brexit Holiday Tax" section of "The Big Remain Thread", indicates this deal might not be too shabby for Britain.

I hope so. It takes time for these things to get sorted, as mentioned a few times before, so it's good to chill out for a bit and see what happens

[Maghull Mike]

 

[Trampa501]

10 minutes ago, Confusion of VIs said:

All apart from the complete nutcases in the ERG have reached a point where they just want their self confected NI problem to go away.  They are going to proceed with the deal whatever the ERG think. The ERG know this so there isn't anything in it for them by opposing it.  

NI continuing to be in the single market was what the ERG and DUP had hoped to avoid and the reason for inventing the NIP problems. From the DUP's point of view, closer ties with EiIre (EU) and properity coming from that is a disaster.   

Yep, good summary. There was a time when northern Ireland was the prosperous part of the island. It's now the poor cousin, which the unionist side bears some responsibility for. Not a great look, to be anti- prosperity.

[slawek]

2 hours ago, thecrashingisles said:

In light of the new deal on Northern Ireland, will people who used to bang on about the intractable 'trilemma' admit that they had an overly simplistic view of things?

The EU custom border is still between NI and GB. WF is an implementation of NIP. 

[thecrashingisles]

1 minute ago, slawek said:

The EU custom border is still between NI and GB. WF is an implementation of NIP. 

It amends the protocol.

[rollover]

Next One, Please!

 

 

Edited February 27, 2023 by rollover

[slawek]

20 minutes ago, thecrashingisles said:

It amends the protocol.

It is a set of "joint solutions, found within the framework of the Withdrawal Agreement"

https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/ip_23_1268

Edited February 27, 2023 by slawek

[rollover]

Pound surges after UK and EU agree NI deal

The pound has jumped higher after Britain and the EU secured a new post-Brexit deal for Northern Ireland in a move set to end long-running tensions following the UK’s withdrawal.

Sterling leaped 0.7% higher to 1.20 US dollars and was 0.3% up at 1.14 euros after a Government source said Prime Minister Rishi Sunak and European Commission president Ursula von der Leyen had signed a breakthrough deal at a meeting in Windsor, Berkshire.

The deal is set to finalise Brexit more than six years after the 2016 referendum, and to resolve the trading issues created by the Northern Ireland Protocol.

Independent

[thecrashingisles]

22 minutes ago, slawek said:

It is a set of "joint solutions, found within the framework of the Withdrawal Agreement"

https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/ip_23_1268

If you read the legal texts, they are full of actual amendments to the NIP. The Windsor Framework is within the framework of the amended WA.

[slawek]

4 minutes ago, thecrashingisles said:

If you read the legal texts, they are full of actual amendments to the NIP. The Windsor Framework is within the framework of the amended WA.

Yes they have made some tweaks to NIP but the NIP has not changed overall.

EU law/ECJ applies in NI. The EU customer border is between NI/GB, all goods imported to the EU this route need to be fully checked and comply with EU all regulations. Goods exported from EU through NI/GBP border needs to be checked if there are any EU export restrictions.  

The changes concern only products flowing from the UK to NI and staying there so they have no impact on the single market.  

https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/qanda_23_1271

[thecrashingisles]

5 minutes ago, slawek said:

Yes they have made some tweaks to NIP but the NIP has not changed overall.

EU law/ECJ applies in NI. The EU customer border is between NI/GB, all goods imported to the EU this route need to be fully checked and comply with EU all regulations. Goods exported from EU through NI/GBP border needs to be checked if there are any EU export restrictions.  

The changes concern only products flowing from the UK to NI and staying there so they have no impact on the single market.  

https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/qanda_23_1271

So as I said originally, it shows that the so-called trilemma was overly simplistic. It is possible for the border to be in different places at once.

[Dweller]

57 minutes ago, rollover said:

Pound surges after UK and EU agree NI deal

The pound has jumped higher after Britain and the EU secured a new post-Brexit deal for Northern Ireland in a move set to end long-running tensions following the UK’s withdrawal.

Sterling leaped 0.7% higher to 1.20 US dollars and was 0.3% up at 1.14 euros after a Government source said Prime Minister Rishi Sunak and European Commission president Ursula von der Leyen had signed a breakthrough deal at a meeting in Windsor, Berkshire.

The deal is set to finalise Brexit more than six years after the 2016 referendum, and to resolve the trading issues created by the Northern Ireland Protocol.

Independent

How does it "finalise Brexit" when the UK hasn't as yet fully implemented the border around the rest of the UK which Moggy said would be "an act of self harm" ? 

The whole  country watching the government busy ensuring NI continues to thrive whilst the rest of us are sitting around waiting for the act of self harm whilst being told that Brexit is finally done! 

https://www.independent.co.uk/.../brexit-deal-northern...

Let’s say parliament supports the deal. Let’s say even the DUP supports the deal and gets back into government in Northern Ireland. I am still not so sure you can say Sunak “got Brexit done”, given what’s coming over the next few years.

 

I will just give you the facts. You can decide that for yourself. But if you decide that Brexit is not in fact done, please remember two things: 1) The Tories did this; 2) Most people don’t want this, so there is hope.

 

Last year, arch Brexiteer Jacob Rees-Mogg boasted about how they weren’t going to start checking imports from the EU until the end of 2023, to avoid what he called “an act of self-harm”. He said it would increase food prices by up to 71 per cent and that “at that level, goods just wouldn’t have come in.” With the current state of UK food supplies, what a Christmas present that will be! I’ll let you decide whether “control of our borders”, trade relations, and the economy are part of “getting Brexit done”.

 

Then there is the Retained EU Law bill, where the Tories plan to do a mass scrapping of UK laws that are based on EU laws. The problem is that the UK and the EU agreed a level playing field on laws, so that neither side would gain an unfair competitive advantage. That is part of the Brexit Deal.

[Dweller]

2 hours ago, Trampa501 said:

So far sunak's getting praise from all directions. Wonder if that will remain once the Dup extremists and Erg nutters dig deep into the small print?

 

Or indeed once the full border is implemented around the rest of the UK . 

[slawek]

36 minutes ago, thecrashingisles said:

So as I said originally, it shows that the so-called trilemma was overly simplistic. It is possible for the border to be in different places at once.

You are wrong. The border is only in one place, NI/GBP. There is only a different arrangement for goods flowing between GBP and NI and staying in the UK.  

[pig]

2 hours ago, Trampa501 said:

So far sunak's getting praise from all directions. Wonder if that will remain once the Dup extremists and Erg nutters dig deep into the small print?

Interesting that  NI remains part of the single market, as well as part of the union. Will remainers consider relocating there? At the least, should be a lot of job opportunity there...

Its a good thing for NI to be honest - the DUP and the Brexit headbangers look cornered, I'd be surprised if they put a spanner in the works now.

 I don't know whether that means business will now pour into NI but basically the rest of the UK should get the same deal.

[Dweller]

6 minutes ago, pig said:

 

 I don't know whether that means business will now pour into NI but basically the rest of the UK should get the same deal.

or at least be told that as yet Gov.Uk haven't implemented the border around the rest of the Uk and what this will mean instead of being told that Sunak has now got Brexit done!! God on days like today I just spend the whole day RANTING I am sooo frustrated by the lies. 

[14stFlyer]

2 hours ago, slawek said:

EU law/ECJ applies in NI. The EU customer border is between NI/GB, all goods imported to the EU this route need to be fully checked and comply with EU all regulations. Goods exported from EU through NI/GBP border needs to be checked if there are any EU export restrictions.  

The changes concern only products flowing from the UK to NI and staying there so they have no impact on the single market

Does this mean you are not happy with the agreement then Slawek? I have had a quick read though and to my ill-informed eye this looks like a good compromise.

The integrity of the U.K. and its internal market appears to be improved by it, with NI able to move goods freely within the U.K., and rest of U.K. able to move goods freely into NI. 

The integrity of the EU single market looks secure, with both control of exports crossing into Eire, and monitoring to highlight any non-compliant goods crossing the border.  In order to comply with the Good Friday Agreement this is all being done away from the RoI:NI border as goods cross the Irish Sea.

I suspect that at some point some  of our less scrupulous business colleagues will find ways to cause trouble, but for now this is a good starting point isn’t it?  
 

 

[pig]

2 hours ago, Dweller said:

or at least be told that as yet Gov.Uk haven't implemented the border around the rest of the Uk and what this will mean instead of being told that Sunak has now got Brexit done!! God on days like today I just spend the whole day RANTING I am sooo frustrated by the lies. 

The bigger picture is that after an 8 year shit show of epic proportions - and yes lies - the government is actually trying to be competent rather than populist.

 

[pig]

Quote

“Robert and Boris were discussing the protocol and Robert said, ‘It’s vital you back it Boris, it’s a good outcome and with the US state visit coming up and the need to get a trade deal with them it will help keep us onside with the Americans.’ Boris said ‘f*** the Americans!’” said the witness to the exchange.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/boris-johnson-americans-insult-biden-b2289956.html