Brexit What Happens Next Thread ---multiple merged threads.

[jonb2]

37 minutes ago, GrizzlyDave said:

Thank you for answering.

I haven’t heard a single remainer on here (edit - with the exception of Dave Beans) say they would compromise and accept the softest Brexit.

How do we get beyond this impasse?

What do remainers have to offer as a compromise?

—

edit

I think it's irreparable Dave.

You lost, get over it. Traitors. Betrayal are not words of compromise are they? Death threats, Nazis, Tommy Robinson.

Compromise is long gone - we need a peace treaty.

[Bruce Banner]

2 minutes ago, crouch said:

I, along with many, many others think the Euro is unsustainable and will, at some point, fail. When this will be and under what circumstances I have no idea. And if the Euro does fail it will take the EU with it, and I mean here the substance not the form.

Gordon Brown made the most important political decision of all in the last twenty years when he ruled out membership of the Euro, and that includes Brexit.

And I, along with many, many, many others disagree with you.

Fortunately, I bought Euros at about €1.5/£1, so I am insulated against the relative drop in the value of Sterling, but if I hadn't our holidays would cost a lot more.

 

[jonb2]

13 hours ago, Confounded said:

Absolutely that is the graph! No deal is a massive majority for the leave option. I am staggered it is so high given No deal is just not debated publicly. It is like the elephant in the room when ever the BBC discuss the next options as each ridiculous move by the failed parliament unfolds. I get a feeling that is will only grow as more people take the time to research it as an option having got a sense parliament has not done its job for them.  

Let's look at the calibre and delusions of the Brexit cheerleaders against the facts.

 

[rollover]

14 hours ago, highYield said:

I'm not sure what interest it is of yours to hold UK politicians to account. But perhaps we've been so hopeless about it, that we need outside help.

You're an enigma - as interested in learning & integrating with foreign cultures as I've been with Francophone culture. But my French is better than your English, and I would never contemplate telling Francophones how to run their countries. 

Perhaps all the furrin trolls paranoia exhibited by the remainer side has rubbed off on me. 

Must try and be less xenophobic.

I take your point but that isn’t the way I see it; instead, I think that you are just projecting your frustration, disappointment and bitterness for Brexit fiasco and blaming remainers.

Being more or less xenophobic and blaming others for your feelings, is something you have to deal with yourself.

[GrizzlyDave]

33 minutes ago, thecrashingisles said:

'Accept' is such a loaded term.  You seem to want people to renounce the EU and promise never again to offend your sensibilities by supporting it.

No compromise then.

[GrizzlyDave]

10 minutes ago, jonb2 said:

I think it's irreparable Dave.

You lost, get over it. Traitors. Betrayal are not words of compromise are they? Death threats, Nazis, Tommy Robinson.

Compromise is long gone - we need a peace treaty.

No compromise then.

[thecrashingisles]

2 minutes ago, GrizzlyDave said:

No compromise then.

You asked me which way I'd vote.  Why would I vote against my own judgment to avoid hurting your feelings?

[GrizzlyDave]

13 minutes ago, thecrashingisles said:

You asked me which way I'd vote.  Why would I vote against my own judgment to avoid hurting your feelings?

The way you vote is important. Because this confirmatory vote as we both know is complete BS. It’s designed to give you another crack at Remain.

But let’s not get bogged down here.

What compromise can you offer to brexiteers in terms of Brexit?

What would you accept as a minimum outcome?

Are you really saying that remain is the only thing that is acceptable to you and you have nothing to offer brexiteers by way of compromise?

I’ve compromised.

[thecrashingisles]

Just now, GrizzlyDave said:

The way you vote is important. Because this confirmatory vote as we both know is complete BS. It’s designed to give you another crack at Remain.

But let’s not get bogged down here.

What compromise can you offer to brexiteers in terms of Brexit?

What would you accept as a minimum outcome?

Are you really saying that remain is the only thing that is acceptable to you and you have nothing to offer brexiteers by way of compromise?

I’ve compromised.

I'm not a politician so I am not in a position to offer anything, but I'm certainly not going to pretend I think you have a point when I don't think you do.

[GrizzlyDave]

5 minutes ago, thecrashingisles said:

I'm not a politician so I am not in a position to offer anything, but I'm certainly not going to pretend I think you have a point when I don't think you do.

No compromise then.

[pig]

10 hours ago, GrizzlyDave said:

Poll of polls takes us into pre 30th March territory. That’s a different world to where we are now.

This poll is from the 8th of April. Look at all those leave votes...

As for what constitutes Brexit and what is and isn’t acceptable. I will happily accept all options apart from remain. All options take us out of the USofE.

I will accept CM2.0 as a compromise. I accept it as a way to attempt to heal this divided nation.

Would you compromise on CM2.0?

and if you would;

Would you vote for it if you had a vote between Remain and CM2.0?

I doubt it...

Actually  the poll of polls goes back to the beginning of  2018.

The Remain/Leave gap briefly narrows and then the trend gradually widens till we get to April 8th - the date of the graph you and Confounded are fixating on - where you have the 54/46 split.

May and the ERG are at one end of the available options. According to your data, the country is at the other.  No wonder it’s a mess. No wonder they are desperately pumping out ‘no deal’ ads.

Im not sure I’m a ‘Remainer’ as such any more, probably better described as a Revoker now, curiously parallel to Oborne where it doesn’t really mean either. That’s my compromise.

Edited April 14, 2019 by pig

[thecrashingisles]

Just now, GrizzlyDave said:

Democracy is all about compromise.

Respecting a democratic process doesn't mean abandoning your own views.  If you want a country in which nobody thinks we should be part of European political institutions, you're never going to get it (unless you move somewhere outside Europe).

[GrizzlyDave]

10 minutes ago, thecrashingisles said:

Respecting a democratic process doesn't mean abandoning your own views.  If you want a country in which nobody thinks we should be part of European political institutions, you're never going to get it (unless you move somewhere outside Europe).

I never said that it did and I’m not asking you to.

—

This is what I did ask;

What compromise can you offer to brexiteers in terms of Brexit?

What would you accept as a minimum outcome?

Are you really saying that remain is the only thing that is acceptable to you and you have nothing to offer brexiteers by way of compromise?

—

For example you could argue the remainer point of staying in the EU to reform it. So agree a set of reforms with brexiteers with a time limit to achieve them. Then revoke A50 and work to reform from within. If the objectives aren’t achieved after a certain time period a referendum on membership is put back to the people.

Now I’m not saying that this is acceptable to me. But it would be a remainer compromise of 1) accepting short comings, 2) putting money where their mouths are in terms of reforming from within, and 3) setting a success/fail assessment mechanism and alternative options if this method proves ineffective.

—

However instead you call me a bully and a blackmailer!

Edited April 14, 2019 by GrizzlyDave

[thecrashingisles]

3 minutes ago, GrizzlyDave said:

I never said that it did and I’m not asking you to.

—

This is what I did ask;

What compromise can you offer to brexiteers in terms of Brexit?

What would you accept as a minimum outcome?

Are you really saying that remain is the only thing that is acceptable to you and you have nothing to offer brexiteers by way of compromise?

—

For example you could argue the remainer point of staying in the EU to reform it. So agree a set of reforms with brexiteers with a time limit to achieve them. Then revoke A50 and work to reform from within. If the objectives aren’t achieved after a certain time period a referendum on membership is put back to the people.

Now I’m not saying that this is acceptable to me. But it would be a remainer compromise of 1) accepting short comings, 2) putting money where their mouths are in terms of reforming from within, and 3) setting a success/fail assessment mechanism and alternative options if this method proves ineffective.

—

However instead you call me a bully and a blackmailer!

You want me to start from the premise that EU membership is a bad thing and try to look for ways to appease your views by extracting us from bits of it.  I don't accept your premise.

As a country we've come to this point because people have been compromising and appeasing the Eurosceptic view since the 90s, and it's led us down a blind alley.  The time for such compromise is over. 

[GrizzlyDave]

3 minutes ago, thecrashingisles said:

You want me to start from the premise that EU membership is a bad thing and try to look for ways to appease your views by extracting us from bits of it.  I don't accept your premise.

As a country we've come to this point because people have been compromising and appeasing the Eurosceptic view since the 90s, and it's led us down a blind alley.  The time for such compromise is over. 

No compromise then.

[thecrashingisles]

Just now, GrizzlyDave said:

No compromise then.

Not on the EU.  If you want my suggestion for how we can break from the status quo it would be to stay in the EU and reform the UK.  Consider things like an English parliament, proportional representation, etc.

[GrizzlyDave]

4 minutes ago, thecrashingisles said:

Not on the EU.  If you want my suggestion for how we can break from the status quo it would be to stay in the EU and reform the UK.  Consider things like an English parliament, proportional representation, etc.

Well that’s a bit of an effort.

I’m very open to reforming the UK.

But no compromise in terms of brexit. There is nothing you would explore/consider changing in terms of the UK’s relationship with the EU?

[thecrashingisles]

Just now, GrizzlyDave said:

Well that’s a bit of an effort.

I’m very open to reforming the UK.

But no compromise in terms of brexit. There is nothing you would explore/consider changing in terms of the UK’s relationship with the EU?

Yes, I think we should be much less hands-off and join the Euro, otherwise we'll always feel semi-detached from it and it will lead to problems.

We need to think clearly about national strategy because just trying to resist being part of the EU is a road to nowhere.

[rollover]

1 hour ago, GrizzlyDave said:

Thank you for answering.

I haven’t heard a single remainer on here (edit - with the exception of Dave Beans) say they would compromise and accept the softest Brexit.

How do we get beyond this impasse?

What do remainers have to offer as a compromise?

—

edit

But you wanted Brexit and not remainers!

Remainers don't have to make you an offer, compromise or accept anything!

I really appreciate your offer to share the Brexit blame, but not for me, thanks for asking!

[GrizzlyDave]

1 minute ago, thecrashingisles said:

Yes, I think we should be much less hands-off and join the Euro, otherwise we'll always feel semi-detached from it and it will lead to problems.

We need to think clearly about national strategy because just trying to resist being part of the EU is a road to nowhere.

Well that certainly is an argument! My compromise is full power to the engines!

Let me ask you something, would you like to see a US of E, and would you like the UK to be part of it?

[dugsbody]

10 minutes ago, thecrashingisles said:

Not on the EU.  If you want my suggestion for how we can break from the status quo it would be to stay in the EU and reform the UK.  Consider things like an English parliament, proportional representation, etc.

That is my view too. The UK needs reform more badly than the EU. Leaving the EU is a scapegoat and solves nothing. In fact it achieves less than nothing, it is a successful play by the nationalists to escape taking blame for their own failings by pointing the finger at foreigners. The UK government isn't going to change itself when you've just signalled that the foreigners were to blame.

Any reforms the UK should make were entirely achievable inside the EU. It is an unnecessary, immensely costly, immensely socially regressive waste of time. 

[GrizzlyDave]

1 minute ago, dugsbody said:

That is my view too. The UK needs reform more badly than the EU. Leaving the EU is a scapegoat and solves nothing. In fact it achieves less than nothing, it is a successful play by the nationalists to escape taking blame for their own failings by pointing the finger at foreigners. The UK government isn't going to change itself when you've just signalled that the foreigners were to blame.

Any reforms the UK should make were entirely achievable inside the EU. It is an unnecessary, immensely costly, immensely socially regressive waste of time. 

No compromise then.

[GrizzlyDave]

5 minutes ago, rollover said:

But you wanted Brexit and not remainers!

Remainers don't have to make you an offer, compromise or accept anything!

I really appreciate your offer to share the Brexit blame, but not for me, thanks for asking!

No compromise then.

[thecrashingisles]

3 minutes ago, GrizzlyDave said:

No compromise then.

It's not compromise you're looking for but validation.

[rollover]

2 minutes ago, GrizzlyDave said:

No compromise then.

Now when Brexiters blow up Brexit are shouting compromise, compromise!

Desperate, too little and too late!

Accept it and move on. Democracy, isn't it.