dugsbody Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 58 minutes ago, longgone said: they will do what they like regardless. i have always believed voting is a waste of time, a smoke screen to mimic choice when you have none. Voting can be meaningful if you're prepared to make it meaningful. If you're prepared to lie your way to victory and make everything as vague as possible in order to get as many votes as possible, then you get the outcome you deserve. Everything that is happening is simply the lies meeting reality. Of course, many brexiters won't believe that, will continue burying their heads up their own arses and blaming everyone but themselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dugsbody Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 20 minutes ago, ebull said: you are ignoring the fact that all the shouting has been from one side. i.m not convinced a new ref would give a different result. it would be 50-50 again so either side could edge it but the idea that theres been a massive shift is just loud propaganda from remainers. question for remainers: if a new ref required 60% majority to overturn ref1 with a immediate fixed date leave guaranteed by law if not won. would you support that and accept the result this time? that question will either be ignored by those claiming a massive shift or excuses will come why only 50% should be required. iow they dont even believe in the massive shift themselves. I am very prepared to accept a vote for a definite outcome that the majority of the country favours. Hard no deal brexit is not an outcome that the majority want because it was one of the only things the leave campaign didn't campaign on (they mentioned just about every other outcome of course). So put the actual type of brexit you want to a vote for everyone to make an actual informed choice and let them decide if they want that or they want to remain. Pretty sure most remain voters would accept that. After all this time, do you still not understand why we actually object to the brexit vote? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habeas Domus Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 I've come to the conclusion that everyone has just got into the habit of voting NO to anything Brexit related. Do you want to stay in the EU: No Do you want to agree a sensible exit deal: No Do you want to accept the chequers Deal: No Do you want to accept Mays Deal: No Do you want a border in NI: No Do you want an open border with NI: No Do you want a hard brexit: No Do you have a better alternative: No Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheeple Splinter Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 4 hours ago, crouch said: Yes I read that. I believe the EU is going nowhere and will crumble over time.The Euro is an unsustainable construct and needs fiscal, and therefore, political union to succeed and that will never come about. The Germans would not have it and any treaty changes have to be put to referenda. France wouldn't have it; they've already voted against treaties once. EE is in a virtual state of insurrection against the EU. The next financial crash - inevitable - may well test the EZ to destruction and if the EZ goes it will take the whole of the EU project with it. I completely agree with your prognosis but would still prefer the EU to reform; actually, regress is a better word. The political changes are simple compared to unwinding the eurozone to perhaps 3-6, core members. I remain bemused by one of the similarities between UKgov and the EUcom, just press on through the crises, it'll be alright... on election night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dugsbody Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 13 minutes ago, Roman Roady said: Combination of the word British and exit. Not strictly correct since the sovereign entity is the UK, the use of the word British leaves out Northern Ireland...that's irony for you! Its the process where the population of the UK voted to leave the EU and their allotted representatives (UK being a representative democracy) didn't agree with that instruction, never accepted it and ultimately did what the hell they liked...which is to ignore it. Rather than resulting in the UK exiting the EU it will eventually open the door to a Government of extreme left and or right wing parties which will result in more catastrophic and dire consequences for the UK and the EU, but these will be farther into the future so are not of concern to our short sighted politicians. The fault is your own. May came up with a brexit deal but apparently even on this thread brexiters can't agree whether it means brexit or not. Why do you expect any different from another set of human beings? Make up your minds what brexit really is and then we can talk. Have some damn self awareness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrizzlyDave Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 14 minutes ago, Roman Roady said: Combination of the word British and exit. Not strictly correct since the sovereign entity is the UK, the use of the word British leaves out Northern Ireland...that's irony for you! Its the process where the population of the UK voted to leave the EU and their allotted representatives (UK being a representative democracy) didn't agree with that instruction, never accepted it and ultimately did what the hell they liked...which is to ignore it. Rather than resulting in the UK exiting the EU it will eventually open the door to a Government of extreme left and or right wing parties which will result in more catastrophic and dire consequences for the UK and the EU, but these will be farther into the future so are not of concern to our short sighted politicians. Northern Irish are British... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_people Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheeple Splinter Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 5 minutes ago, dugsbody said: I am very prepared to accept a vote for a definite outcome that the majority of the country favours. Hard no deal brexit is not an outcome that the majority want because it was one of the only things the leave campaign didn't campaign on (they mentioned just about every other outcome of course). So put the actual type of brexit you want to a vote for everyone to make an actual informed choice and let them decide if they want that or they want to remain. Pretty sure most remain voters would accept that. After all this time, do you still not understand why we actually object to the brexit vote? Sigh... The People had a three way vote with the options clearly spelt out in 2017. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheeple Splinter Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 4 hours ago, pig said: Well naughty Ireland lol ! As we're aiming to be Singapore I guess we'll be joining them ! Who is we? I can assure you I'm not with you on your Singaporean fantasy(ies?) Anyway, you didn't answer the question posed... "Do you think Ireland should drop its vetoes against the EU's flagship policies of tax harmonisation and the digital tax regime for all members?" … which is a tad unusual for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheeple Splinter Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 4 hours ago, GrizzlyDave said: I guess the UK has a big slice of the Caribbean? Yes, JB2 is on the Caribbean case and kinked Spider's Web documentary upthread. Plus the Dutch Antilles, St Barts... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rollover Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 Quote May’s final warning to Tory rebels: back me or lose Brexit Theresa May will attempt one final desperate roll of the dice on her Brexit deal, issuing a stark warning to mutinous Brexiters that they must approve her offer by next week or face a long article 50 extension. In an unprecedented night of Tory splits, four cabinet ministers, Amber Rudd, David Mundell, David Gauke and Greg Clark, defied their party’s last-minute whip and refused to vote against the government’s own motion, after it was amended to rule out any prospect of no-deal Brexit. Guardian And that will be it for Brexit. Tick - Tock! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Banner Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 47 minutes ago, Roman Roady said: Wont our shower of sh1te then repeal A50...since they have just voted against a No Deal exit?? They can, they should, but will they? I hope so! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnionTerror Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 1 hour ago, Bruce Banner said: Nice, but I prefer this... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confusion of VIs Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 5 hours ago, kzb said: Another option: Since it is apparently not possible to be thrown out the EU, how about RINO (= Remain In Name Only) ? This consists of remaining, whilst doing what we want and refusing to pay any resultant fines. A bit like Hungary. Better than DINO (=Democracy in Name Only) like we have going on here. Another thing: if we do ever leave, the EU is going to be unbearable for some members -what Germany says goes. How do you think that will happen. Germany's big fear is that without the UK power will shift to the South. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confusion of VIs Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 2 hours ago, ebull said: you are ignoring the fact that all the shouting has been from one side. i.m not convinced a new ref would give a different result. it would be 50-50 again so either side could edge it but the idea that theres been a massive shift is just loud propaganda from remainers. question for remainers: if a new ref required 60% majority to overturn ref1 with a immediate fixed date leave guaranteed by law if not won. would you support that and accept the result this time? that question will either be ignored by those claiming a massive shift or excuses will come why only 50% should be required. iow they dont even believe in the massive shift themselves. It's true that few people are changing their minds but the demographic is changing - the +75yr group that voted 70% in favour of Brexit is literally being decimated each year and replaced by 18yr olds who are +70% in favour of Remain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confusion of VIs Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 48 minutes ago, Dave Beans said: For anyone who actually rides motorcycles rather than just fantasises about the Spec sheet, this is the one to have - and you can get a good one for £5-6k Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebull Posted March 14, 2019 Share Posted March 14, 2019 4 minutes ago, Confusion of VIs said: It's true that few people are changing their minds but the demographic is changing - the +75yr group that voted 70% in favour of Brexit is literally being decimated each year and replaced by 18yr olds who are +70% in favour of Remain. the problem with that argument is that a group in the middle will have moved from 30s more likely remainers to 40s more likely leavers. and all the other age groups so even with the age voting correlation the 18yos replace 75yos is not accurate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confusion of VIs Posted March 14, 2019 Share Posted March 14, 2019 1 minute ago, ebull said: the problem with that argument is that a group in the middle will have moved from 30s more likely remainers to 40s more likely leavers. and all the other age groups so even with the age voting correlation the 18yos replace 75yos is not accurate. Polling Guru John Curtis looked at that in some detail and concluded that people are not changing their views as they get older (there was a whole C4 program about it). So no problem with my argument, unless you have carried out your own research that has found that peoples views change as they get older. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnionTerror Posted March 14, 2019 Share Posted March 14, 2019 (edited) Thats the Ariel Ace..Built in Somerset (the same company that makes the Atom). Handbuilt to fit the owner. I spoke to the bloke who ran the factory a couple of years ago. Nice chap. They only have a handful of staff. https://www.arielmotor.co.uk/ace/ Too many race bikes to so uncomfortable to ride. That's why I'm getting rid of mine. Edited March 14, 2019 by Dave Beans Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confusion of VIs Posted March 14, 2019 Share Posted March 14, 2019 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Dave Beans said: Thats the Ariel Ace..Built in Somerset. Handbuilt to fit the owner. I spoke to the bloke who ran the factory a couple of years ago. Nice chap. Too many race bikes to so uncomfortable to ride. That's why I'm getting rid of mine. Well it would probably be more comfy than their cars. Back in the real world GSX1100, FJ1100s and the first ZX10s were great bikes (comfy and fast). FJ and ZX were both easily capable of getting off the channel ferry in the morning and having you booked into a hotel and swimming in the med by 6pm. Edited March 14, 2019 by Confusion of VIs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonsieurCopperCrutch Posted March 14, 2019 Share Posted March 14, 2019 2 hours ago, Roman Roady said: Combination of the word British and exit. Not strictly correct since the sovereign entity is the UK, the use of the word British leaves out Northern Ireland...that's irony for you! Its the process where the population of the UK voted to leave the EU and their allotted representatives (UK being a representative democracy) didn't agree with that instruction, never accepted it and ultimately did what the hell they liked...which is to ignore it. Rather than resulting in the UK exiting the EU it will eventually open the door to a Government of extreme left and or right wing parties which will result in more catastrophic and dire consequences for the UK and the EU, but these will be farther into the future so are not of concern to our short sighted politicians. What is leave the EU? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smash Posted March 14, 2019 Share Posted March 14, 2019 5 hours ago, pig said: Well thats the unfortunate irony - you can't have a sensible Brexit if you're fecked up in the head over international relations. Its more an induced psychological condition thats being post-rationalised by trade fantasies. I'm listening to Farage on the radio right now (yuk!) its like millions of people need rescuing from a cult. Its the church of the universal scapegoat. The catharsis of being free is the impossible dream and the psycho-geography to come will feature more scapegoating written onto the lands. Or, we could drift across the Atlantic or people will own up to being mugged over. Whats more likely? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonsieurCopperCrutch Posted March 14, 2019 Share Posted March 14, 2019 28 minutes ago, Confusion of VIs said: It's true that few people are changing their minds but the demographic is changing - the +75yr group that voted 70% in favour of Brexit is literally being decimated each year and replaced by 18yr olds who are +70% in favour of Remain. Yup. I know 2 leave voters who are now deceased. 3 others want to vote remain now after the big red bus lies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smash Posted March 14, 2019 Share Posted March 14, 2019 8 minutes ago, Confusion of VIs said: Well it would probably be more comfy than their cars. Back in the real world GSX1100, FJ1100s and the first ZX10s were great bikes (comfy and fast). FJ and ZX were both easily capable of getting off the channel ferry in the morning and having you booked into a hotel and swimming in the med by 6pm. You naughty boy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnionTerror Posted March 14, 2019 Share Posted March 14, 2019 12 minutes ago, Confusion of VIs said: Well it would probably be more comfy than their cars. Back in the real world GSX1100, FJ1100s and the first ZX10s were great bikes (comfy and fast). FJ and ZX were both easily capable of getting off the channel ferry in the morning and having you booked into a hotel and swimming in the med by 6pm. The heavy duty racing bikes can give me cramp, even on short distances, but I don't really want a "proper" sports tourer, like the Triumph Tiger. Probably somewhere in between. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smash Posted March 14, 2019 Share Posted March 14, 2019 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Dave Beans said: The heavy duty racing bikes can give me cramp, even on short distances, but I don't really want a "proper" sports tourer, like the Triumph Tiger. Probably somewhere in between. Ive heard the Tiger is a bit (top) heavy but the adventure style is the way to go for someone wanting more comfort and practicality. Mate of mine has a Ducati Multistrada 1200 and swears by it. Still more power than you need though, BMW GS850 is something like sensible territory. Alternatively whats wrong with a Triumph Bonneville/Trad style? Edited March 14, 2019 by smash Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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