Brexit What Happens Next Thread ---multiple merged threads.

[pig]

35 minutes ago, ccc said:

Neither. I'm not a flag waver in any sense really. However I do think I have more pride in my country (s) than a number of people on here do. I do like to view the positives. 

I can see from replies we have folk asking again what someone's nationality or birthplace has to do with the debate.

It's just basic courtesy. If you are going to give your opinion on a decision people have made - and at the same time tell them they are stupid for doing this it dumb for doing that - at least have the decency to explain where you sit in the debate. 

It has everything to do with this debate. If someone sitting in their bedroom in Burkino Faso wants to comment on why people in the UK voted brexit ? Well that's up to them. But their opinion really means very little. 

Personally I think pig must be from outside the UK and the EU. Because if they were from either then their view on the situation would be perfectly valid. 

If they are from outside then they are quite entitled to view their opinion - but are probably aware that their views will be responded to by many - with "What has this got to do with you ?"

So come on Pig. What's the problem. Spill the beans. 

 

I think the problem is:

a. I've (also?) been down the pub and need to try to self-mod

b. Oh feck it: maybe the problem is you are getting hysterical because you are somehow equating 'big' Britain with your John Thomas lol?

We have of course, well imho, for a long time punched well above our weight.

I realise GD's stats were meant to show we 'rank' highly as a country, but the numbers also show we are about to cut a significant reason why we punch about our weight in contemporary times -  ie fighting our way to top dog in Europe and hence magnifying real 'sovereignty'  and self-determination - is about to be cut off at the knees.

But thats 'only' the economic/geo-political bit.

The 'patriotism' bit fears that xenophobic turds + the 'merely' brainwashed are out to destroy something much more precious.

I do not mean this as any criticism of Hairy - (the opposite really and I get many had probably had enough) - but I kind of regret him outing you earlier in the thread as I'd rather your 'thinking' be rubbished purely for what it is rather than who its from.

Mainly because that always allows room for (personal) change. Although I'm old enough to realise that for some thats as likely as fecking unicorns saving the day.

There - where do you think I fall on your Barnier - Alf Garnet furrener scale ?

Could be Welsh of course. Or Cornish. Or Norfolk-ish: weirder and more alien than Hobbits them lot.

[Confusion of VIs]

20 minutes ago, GrizzlyDave said:

Little Englander describes a mindset - gammon describes a physical appearance. Specifically certain white people. That’s very dubious territory to tread.

My personal view is that it lowers the tone of the debate. Remainers quite often extole masses of moral superiority. We’re more intelligent, funny, worldly, tolerant etc. By using lexicon such as Gammons - it just makes you come across as profoundly hypocritical.

I think you are taking this much to seriously, you don't have to spend all your life engaged in refined intellectual debate being a little acerbic now and again can be quite refreshing.  

[rollover]

1 hour ago, ccc said:

Neither. I'm not a flag waver in any sense really. However I do think I have more pride in my country (s) than a number of people on here do. I do like to view the positives. 

I can see from replies we have folk asking again what someone's nationality or birthplace has to do with the debate.

It's just basic courtesy. If you are going to give your opinion on a decision people have made - and at the same time tell them they are stupid for doing this it dumb for doing that - at least have the decency to explain where you sit in the debate. 

It has everything to do with this debate. If someone sitting in their bedroom in Burkino Faso wants to comment on why people in the UK voted brexit ? Well that's up to them. But their opinion really means very little. 

Personally I think pig must be from outside the UK and the EU. Because if they were from either then their view on the situation would be perfectly valid. 

If they are from outside then they are quite entitled to view their opinion - but are probably aware that their views will be responded to by many - with "What has this got to do with you ?"

So come on Pig. What's the problem. Spill the beans. 

 

Are you again cyberbullying other posters?

Quote

 

From HPC Guidelines:

No derogatory comments against others, including slurs based on race, religion, gender, sexual preference, or political affiliation. No personal threats or harassment.

Always treat fellow posters with respect and courtesy.

 

 

[thecrashingisles]

The Brexit can gets kicked even further.  We're not leaving.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/05/16/britain-will-tell-eu-prepared-stay-tied-customs-union-beyond/

[pig]

52 minutes ago, rollover said:

Are you again cyberbullying other posters?

 

Lol - answer yes or no!

[ZeroSumGame]

4 minutes ago, thecrashingisles said:

The Brexit can gets kicked even further.  We're not leaving.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/05/16/britain-will-tell-eu-prepared-stay-tied-customs-union-beyond/

Gordon Bennet!!!!

That's just published in the arch Brexiteer siren - the Torygraph.

Have my Leaver chums got anything to add?  Like ...phew!!! maybe I won't need to buy that Malta passport for ~ 700K€.....

[pig]

1 hour ago, Confusion of VIs said:

The real kicker will be the price the US extracts for a trade deal.  Trump sees our massive £33bn trade surplus as a problem to be solved and now wants to directly attack the NHS.

As 50% of our non EU exports go to the US, not signing a deal with the US makes Brexit pretty pointless but signing one will involve giving away more than we ever had to with the EU, in return for a far less valuable deal.

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/trump-plan-to-hike-drug-costs-proves-nhs-at-risk-in-post-brexit-uk-us-trade-deal-labour-warns-jonathan-ashworth-ed-balls-harvard-study_uk_5afc0d6ae4b06a3fb50c4848

 

Yeah but Trump will cede to 95% of our preferences. Or is that Legatum's ?

[GrizzlyDave]

6 hours ago, Confusion of VIs said:

I think you are taking this much to seriously, you don't have to spend all your life engaged in refined intellectual debate being a little acerbic now and again can be quite refreshing.  

You can’t have it both ways - sitting on the moral high ground - throwing crash insults - just comes across as hypocracy.

Am I particularly offended by ‘gammon’. Not really. In actual fact ‘little englander’ I think is worse. It is sailing exceptionally close to the wind on national stereotyping. When charm (Limey, Yankee, Kiwi) descends to derogatory terms, I think we have a problem.

hypocrisy

hɪˈpɒkrɪsi/

noun

1. the practice of claiming to have higher standards or more noble beliefs than is the case.

[ccc]

8 hours ago, GrizzlyDave said:

You’re wrong - it describes a physical appearance - specifically red faced white middle aged brexiteers.

pot - kettle - black.

Ah - never knew that. We'll oh well. 

8 hours ago, thehowler said:

If they can work out a way to solve Brexit I want to hear it!

It's FOM on this forum.

Yes if they can replace May I'm all for it. 

7 hours ago, rollover said:

Are you again cyberbullying other posters?

 

Asking where someone comes from us bullying ? Wow. Even the snowflakes would think that's stretching it. 

Superb. 

6 hours ago, pig said:

Lol - answer yes or no!

Above. You lot have lost the plot. Again. 

46 minutes ago, GrizzlyDave said:

You can’t have it both ways - sitting on the moral high ground - throwing crash insults - just comes across as hypocracy.

Am I particularly offended by ‘gammon’. Not really. In actual fact ‘little englander’ I think is worse. It is sailing exceptionally close to the wind on national stereotyping. When charm (Limey, Yankee, Kiwi) descends to derogatory terms, I think we have a problem.

hypocrisy

hɪˈpɒkrɪsi/

noun

1. the practice of claiming to have higher standards or more noble beliefs than is the case.

It's ok to describe people by the colour of their skin in a derogatory way. However it's not ok to ask where they come from. The remain way. Lunacy. 

This is actually amazing. This was a British vote - for British people on Britain's future. And I simply ask a regular poster on this thread to say where they are from.

And apparently this ain't acceptable ? 

Wow. 

Wow.

Wow.

I reserve the right to ask anyone where they come from. It's a perfectly reasonable question. 

Snowflake central in here again. Switch off the heating !!

[rollover]

38 minutes ago, ccc said:

Ah - never knew that. We'll oh well. 

Yes if they can replace May I'm all for it. 

Asking where someone comes from us bullying ? Wow. Even the snowflakes would think that's stretching it. 

Superb. 

Above. You lot have lost the plot. Again. 

It's ok to describe people by the colour of their skin in a derogatory way. However it's not ok to ask where they come from. The remain way. Lunacy. 

This is actually amazing. This was a British vote - for British people on Britain's future. And I simply ask a regular poster on this thread to say where they are from.

And apparently this ain't acceptable ? 

Wow. 

Wow.

Wow.

I reserve the right to ask anyone where they come from. It's a perfectly reasonable question. 

Snowflake central in here again. Switch off the heating !!

 

Discuss the topic:

Brexit What Happens Next Thread

Edited May 17, 2018 by rollover

[thehowler]

8 hours ago, ZeroSumGame said:

Have my Leaver chums got anything to add?  Like ...phew!!! maybe I won't need to buy that Malta passport for ~ 700K€.....

Nah, some ministers have just had to grudgingly accept we might need to align for a few years, in a worst case contingency projection. Simple procedural things are seized and bandied about by both sides, to the detriment of the broader debate.

More significant is that Labour lost the vote in HoC last night to force govt to publish Brexit papers around customs union/partnership work. They lack the power to achieve their aims and have no control over the Lords.

Regards Malta, aren't Lisbon offering passports to anyone buying a pad for half that much?

[HairyOb1]

10 hours ago, GrizzlyDave said:

This term seems to be a la mode.

Seems quite offensive, possibly even racist?

Come on Dave, it's acutely funny taking the piss out of a few folk, Gammon is a term, derogatory, absolutely, meant to insult, no doubt, but racist?  Come on, even I think that's stretching it a bit.

10 hours ago, GrizzlyDave said:

You’re wrong - it describes a physical appearance - specifically red faced white middle aged brexiteers.

pot - kettle - black.

It isn't.  It's simply a piss take, but it is interesting how many people are upset about it.  Glass houses, stones and all that...

In other interesting news...

If Brexit is not performed right, it could imperil the existence of the UK

Mothercare shutting down 50 stores.  How many big brands have passed away this year already?  Not linking it to Brexit, just interested.

ccc, the thread is 'Brexit, what happens next', not, 'Brexit, why the f**k are you on here debating with pure bloods you possible  mongrel foreigner'.  Wind your neck in, stop harassing Pig or I'll report it, it's unsavoury.

 

Edited May 17, 2018 by HairyOb1

[HairyOb1]

Quote

Authoritative, independent report from @HarvardHBS on possibilities for UK-US trade deal. Spoiler: "...it is highly unlikely that a free trade deal between US & UK will be secured in the near term & likely potential benefits for British businesses are less than often suggested"

So, that's another big blow...

 

[GrizzlyDave]

5 minutes ago, HairyOb1 said:

Come on Dave, it's acutely funny taking the piss out of a few folk, Gammon is a term, derogatory, absolutely, meant to insult, no doubt, but racist?  Come on, even I think that's stretching it a bit.

It isn't.  It's simply a piss take, but it is interesting how many people are upset about it.  Glass houses, stones and all that...

In other interesting news...

If Brexit is not performed right, it could imperil the existence of the UK

Mothercare shutting down 50 stores.  How many big brands have passed away this year already?  Not linking it to Brexit, just interested.

ccc, the thread is 'Brexit, what happens next', not, 'Brexit, why the f**k are you on here debating with pure bloods you possible  mongrel foreigner'.  Wind your neck in, stop harassing Pig or I'll report it, it's unsavoury.

 

I disagree. I’ve made my case. I won’t keep banging on about it.

[ccc]

14 hours ago, thecrashingisles said:

On that subject, do you consider yourself a British patriot or a Scottish patriot?

Nobody appears to have had a hissyfit about this question. 

I have no problem with it - and I answered it with zero hissyfits or hystrionics.

Yet asking a very vocal poster on here as to where they are from ? Apparently that's the end of the world. 

It's the remain way. 

Anyway bored of this now. Will leave you lot to it for a while. The level of hystrionics on here is ridiculous and there's little point debating it. Will return in a few months to see the latest furore.

Have fun y'all. 

[GrizzlyDave]

12 minutes ago, ccc said:

Nobody appears to have had a hissyfit about this question. 

I have no problem with it - and I answered it with zero hissyfits or hystrionics.

Yet asking a very vocal poster on here as to where they are from ? Apparently that's the end of the world. 

It's the remain way. 

Anyway bored of this now. Will leave you lot to it for a while. The level of hystrionics on here is ridiculous and there's little point debating it. Will return in a few months to see the latest furore.

Have fun y'all. 

Try to relax and Enjoy the time away.

[thehowler]

39 minutes ago, HairyOb1 said:

Authoritative, independent report from @HarvardHBS on possibilities for UK-US trade deal.

With the help of no other than Ed Balls as contributor...nuff said.

[GrizzlyDave]

3 minutes ago, thehowler said:

With the help of no other than Ed Balls as contributor...nuff said.

I did have a flick through. It really looked lashed together, very poor formatting, sloppy even.

[HairyOb1]

28 minutes ago, ccc said:

Nobody appears to have had a hissyfit about this question. 

I have no problem with it - and I answered it with zero hissyfits or hystrionics.

Yet asking a very vocal poster on here as to where they are from ? Apparently that's the end of the world. 

It's the remain way. 

Anyway bored of this now. Will leave you lot to it for a while. The level of hystrionics on here is ridiculous and there's little point debating it. Will return in a few months to see the latest furore.

Have fun y'all. 

You were asked once, you've asked Pig 100's of times, as you have others, it seems to be a thing with you. You're setting people up to dismiss their arguments if they are foreign, you did it with IMHAL too.

[HairyOb1]

26 minutes ago, thehowler said:

With the help of no other than Ed Balls as contributor...nuff said.

Ex shadow chancellor, from memory.  Performed by the Harvard Business School, not some 3rd world piss pot Community college...

It is so easy to simply dismiss arguments on nothing more than not liking someone, but it's not refuting the argument, it's just ignoring it really.

Edited May 17, 2018 by HairyOb1

[Confusion of VIs]

3 hours ago, GrizzlyDave said:

You can’t have it both ways - sitting on the moral high ground - throwing crash insults - just comes across as hypocracy.

Am I particularly offended by ‘gammon’. Not really. In actual fact ‘little englander’ I think is worse. It is sailing exceptionally close to the wind on national stereotyping. When charm (Limey, Yankee, Kiwi) descends to derogatory terms, I think we have a problem.

hypocrisy

hɪˈpɒkrɪsi/

noun

1. the practice of claiming to have higher standards or more noble beliefs than is the case.

When  have I ever claimed to have any objection to giving offence, I think you shouldn't routinely insult people for things they have no control over but fine if you are commenting on their chosen behaviour. E.g if someone is exhibiting all the characteristics of a Little Englander why not call them out for it. If you think that is wrong what gives you the right to go round calling people hypocrites - you hypocrite!

My take on Gammon is it is describes a mindset, true it is often exhibited by white males moaning about the EU and immigrants but there are here plenty of female Gammons out there and no reason why they have to be white.   

[HairyOb1]

From Steve The Analyst on Twitter (a good read on a number of subjects if that's your bag).

Spoiler Alert: we're not getting a US-UK FTA, any deal, any time soon.

 

 

[GrizzlyDave]

8 minutes ago, HairyOb1 said:

Ex shadow chancellor, from memory.  Performed by the Harvard Business School, not some 3rd world piss pot Community college...

It is so easy to simply dismiss arguments on nothing more than not liking someone, but it's not refuting the argument, it's just ignoring it really.

I understand your point - but that’s quite a vulgar way of putting it Hairy.

[IMHAL]

40 minutes ago, HairyOb1 said:

You were asked once, you've asked Pig 100's of times, as you have others, it seems to be a thing with you. You're setting people up to dismiss their arguments if they are foreign, you did it with IMHAL too.

CopperCrutch.......I mean ccc is a well known hate spreader and xenophobe on other forums. This is his method used to silence posters views.

He is obviously back to his old tricks again..... I take it he has now crawled back under his usual rock to conflab with all his old, equally vile, Hearts forum buddies (where he was banned from) or some other forum that is not too picky about who they allow in. 

 

 

[Confusion of VIs]

10 minutes ago, HairyOb1 said:

From Steve The Analyst on Twitter (a good read on a number of subjects if that's your bag).

Spoiler Alert: we're not getting a US-UK FTA, any deal, any time soon.

The best thing we can do in respect of the US is to keep our heads down an do nothing or as little as possible as slowly as possible. We have a very good deal now and will lose out very heavily if we get into trade negotiations.

The problem is we may not be able to, as the US can force us to the table by withdrawing existing arrangements we access via our EU membership. We have already has a taste of this over the open skies arrangement, it also gives an inkling of how difficult us attempting to straddle the EU and US regulatory arrangements will be.

https://www.ft.com/content/9461157c-1f97-11e8-9efc-0cd3483b8b80  Google  "US offers UK inferior open skies deal after Brexit"