Brexit What Happens Next Thread ---multiple merged threads.

[Guest]

Just now, rollover said:

I am not too sure whether everyone share your opinion on this issue.

Who cares whether the evil bankster witch of the west shares my opinion? We banned fox hunting - foie gras & bullfighting are STILL celebrated in France & Spain.

I think that you don't understand how much British people care about animal welfare - Shoreham was evidently before the start of your stay here: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/1000-police-drafted-to-animal-port-1566585.html

Quote

About 1,000 police officers were standing by last night at a West Sussex harbour that has been the scene of two nights of violence amid protests over live animal shipments to Europe.

Sussex officers were joined by police from London, Hampshire and Kent at Shoreham Harbour in an attempt to prevent further disturbances. On the previous two nights, lorries loaded with sheep and calves had been forced to turn away by hundreds of protesters opposed to live animal exports. They had leapt on to lorries, smashing lights and hurling stones through windscreens.

The port of Shoreham's decision to export animals for slaughter on the continent has united a community in opposition. Few extremists are involved in the campaign, most taking part being local residents previously uninvolved with protests.

Hundreds of citizens, including many children and old people, were protesting during the main clashes with hauliers on Monday and Tuesday. Police were largely powerless when faced with strong, but largely non-violent, opposition.

 

[GrizzlyDave]

50 minutes ago, thehowler said:

And what happened to the Martin Selmayr shoo-in scandal? Is that going to an inquiry?

Talking of the bloc, will be interesting to see how Trump reacts to Macron/Merkel tough-talking on the EU steel tariffs today. If he ignores them completely it's rather a snub to the idea of us being better off in the club.

https://www.politico.eu/article/eu-watchdog-ombudsman-emily-oreilly-confirms-martin-selmayr-promotion-probe/

[Confusion of VIs]

59 minutes ago, highYield said:

Linked from the above article:

https://www.vettimes.co.uk/news/80-of-public-wants-post-brexit-animal-welfare-focus/

The UK is probably one of the animal friendliest countries in the world - not just no fois gras production or bullfighting, but led the way in EU for animal protection. Seriously, British people go mental when animals are mistreated.

It was a pretty loaded question. It's surprising it was only 80%, why would anyone want things to get worse than they are now.

The UK may be one of the most sentimental countries but I am not sure that translates into better animal welfare. Fois gras and bull fighting are pretty irrelevant, certainly nothing compared to the cruelty involved with egg production from caged hens or milk/beef production.

 

   

[Confusion of VIs]

1 hour ago, GrizzlyDave said:

A wider selection of affordable American Whiskey and Bourbon would be good ?

If we stayed in the EU you could have benefited from the tariff reduction on Japanese Whisky.  

[rollover]

What about champagne from France? Will the price go up post-Brexit?

[Guest]

50 minutes ago, Confusion of VIs said:

If we stayed in the EU you could have benefited from the tariff reduction on Japanese Whisky.  

IIRC, the Japanese distiller who learnt his craft that led to a Japanese Whisky winning some world prize learnt his craft in the UK, in Scotland. One would have to be a professional distiller, or Whisky geek, to really taste the difference. It's clear that a tariff reduction on Japanese (Scottish derived) Whisky would hurt the UK/Scottish industry - but why would the EU care about that?

edit: isn't it a little odd to complain about Chinese copies of Indian JLR cars, yet applaud Japanese copies of Scottish Whisky?

46 minutes ago, rollover said:

What about champagne from France? Will the price go up post-Brexit?

Grasping at straws here, matey. Champagne is a French export to the UK. In the unlikely event that tariffs are levied on champagne (IIRC, the UK is the 2nd biggest Champagne drinker after France) then that will benefit the nascent British sparkling wine industry. http://rathfinnyestate.com

*************

You two certainly love your imports

Edited May 17, 2018 by Guest

[Guest]

18 minutes ago, Confusion of VIs said:

It was a pretty loaded question. It's surprising it was only 80%, why would anyone want things to get worse than they are now.

The UK may be one of the most sentimental countries but I am not sure that translates into better animal welfare. Fois gras and bull fighting are pretty irrelevant, certainly nothing compared to the cruelty involved with egg production from caged hens or milk/beef production.   

Good point re: loaded question.

The Irish EU head bureaucrat for agriculture stated that the UK has led the EU in animal welfare for more than 4 decades. I'd be interested in any references from a more authoritative source.

[rollover]

3 minutes ago, highYield said:

Good point re: loaded question.

The Irish EU head bureaucrat for agriculture stated that the UK has led the EU in animal welfare for more than 4 decades. I'd be interested in any references from a more authoritative source.

What about Halal meat? Does it meet your high animal welfare standards expectations?

[Guest]

Just now, rollover said:

What about Halal meat? Does it meet your high animal welfare standards expectations?

Wow. You came up with a good point, rollover! ?

Don't know about Halal meat. Guess it's just as well that we have a very small Arabic population compared to e.g. France - but I don't know much about the issue.

A vet I talked to told me that the worst meat to eat is horse, because they have such small, well protected brains that they're difficult to slaughter cleanly.

I wonder if the Francophone horse eaters do Halal horse? ?

[GrizzlyDave]

56 minutes ago, Confusion of VIs said:

If we stayed in the EU you could have benefited from the tariff reduction on Japanese Whisky.  

Not tried it - I’ve had Thai Mekong which was a bit rough.

we’re gonna get that cheap whiskey - Hotel California mate.

Edited May 17, 2018 by GrizzlyDave

[HairyOb1]

5 hours ago, kzb said:

If we can import more food at cheaper prices whilst setting standards that would help them even up the trade imbalance.  We get cheaper food.

Like I said, win-win, both sides gain from it.

It's the argument about cake and eating it again.  We will not get food that's 20% if they have to adhere to out, and EU, standards.  They inject hormones growth hormones in their beef, they ask chicken carcases with chlorine, and they use genetically modified grain.  To get them to adhere to our standards, means much more costs, which then doesn't render it cheaper.  I think it's a pipe dream.  They want some of our surplus back.  They'll not give his a great deal as they can drive it, we can't.

[GrizzlyDave]

7 minutes ago, HairyOb1 said:

It's the argument about cake and eating it again.  We will not get food that's 20% if they have to adhere to out, and EU, standards.  They inject hormones growth hormones in their beef, they ask chicken carcases with chlorine, and they use genetically modified grain.  To get them to adhere to our standards, means much more costs, which then doesn't render it cheaper.  I think it's a pipe dream.  They want some of our surplus back.  They'll not give his a great deal as they can drive it, we can't.

I agree. I know we get Argentinian beef and Thai chicken to EU standards - but low labour costs are a key feature. The sums won’t stack up on US wages, EU regs, and shipping.

[Guest]

12 minutes ago, GrizzlyDave said:

I agree. I know we get Argentinian beef and Thai chicken to EU standards - but low labour costs are a key feature. The sums won’t stack up on US wages, EU regs, and shipping.

The future of high end food is traceability - the high profit margins are in organics & birth to slaughter IT traced accountability. As the UK had led the EU in animal welfare standards, once freed of the EU we could lead the world in traceability, even higher food standards.

Cheap crappy food comes from anywhere in our global system. EU or no EU.

Down is interesting. IIRC 80% of down comes from China, where often it is live plucked. Low end down is arguably worse than low end food - live plucked plumes are akin (and sometimes linked to) French, or French style, foie gras. Hungary is a big source of (EU) live plucked down.

Canada (and to a lesser extent the US) is a big mover in ethical down. UK-Canada standards could create a reliable, traceable, ethical down standard.

[GrizzlyDave]

10 minutes ago, highYield said:

The future of high end food is traceability - the high profit margins are in organics & birth to slaughter IT traced accountability. As the UK had led the EU in animal welfare standards, once freed of the EU we could lead the world in traceability, even higher food standards.

Cheap crappy food comes from anywhere in our global system. EU or no EU.

Down is interesting. IIRC 80% of down comes from China, where often it is live plucked. Low end down is arguably worse than low end food - live plucked plumes are akin (and sometimes linked to) French, or French style, foie gras. Hungary is a big source of (EU) live plucked down.

Canada (and to a lesser extent the US) is a big mover in ethical down. UK-Canada standards could create a reliable, traceable, ethical down standard.

Thanks for the lowdown.

I had no idea. I get mine from Marks & Spencer’s. God I feel middle class!

[rollover]

1 hour ago, GrizzlyDave said:

Not tried it - I’ve had Thai Mekong which was a bit rough.

we’re gonna get that cheap whiskey - Hotel California mate.

With warm smell of colitas, rising up through the air?

[Guest]

24 minutes ago, GrizzlyDave said:

Thanks for the lowdown.

I had no idea. I get mine from Marks & Spencer’s. God I feel middle class!

Live plucked down is evil shit. They pull the all the feathers they can from living ducks/geese, then stitch up the biggest flesh tears (obviously without anesthetic) - so that the ducks/geese regrow their feathers, and are live re-harvested again a couple of months later. 

This live plucking process is repeated every 2 months or so of the ducks/geese lives until they produce no more, and are then slaughtered for their meat.

Canada Goose is a Canadian firm trying to change this: https://www.canadagoose.com/uk/en/fur-and-down-policy/fur-and-down-policy.html

edit: https://www.ultralightoutdoorgear.co.uk/ethical-down-i395

-> Where's the EU standard for ethical down?

Edited May 17, 2018 by Guest

[GrizzlyDave]

14 minutes ago, rollover said:

With warm smell of colitas, rising up through the air?

That’s the one.

[GrizzlyDave]

9 minutes ago, highYield said:

Live plucked down is evil shit. They pull the all the feathers they can from living ducks/geese, then stitch up the biggest flesh tears (obviously without anesthetic) - so that the ducks/geese regrow their feathers, and are live re-harvested again a couple of months later. 

This live plucking process is repeated every 2 months or so of the ducks/geese lives until they produce no more, and are then slaughtered for their meat.

Canada Goose is a Canadian firm trying to change this: https://www.canadagoose.com/uk/en/fur-and-down-policy/fur-and-down-policy.html

B@stards.

[rollover]

There we go - environmental policies.

 

Quote

 

Fracking planning laws should be relaxed say ministers

The government has proposed a relaxation in the planning laws which apply to fracking.

Under the plans, preliminary drilling could be classed as permitted development - the same law that allows people to build a small conservatory.

 BBC

 

 

[Confusion of VIs]

2 hours ago, highYield said:

IIRC, the Japanese distiller who learnt his craft that led to a Japanese Whisky winning some world prize learnt his craft in the UK, in Scotland. One would have to be a professional distiller, or Whisky geek, to really taste the difference. It's clear that a tariff reduction on Japanese (Scottish derived) Whisky would hurt the UK/Scottish industry - but why would the EU care about that?

edit: isn't it a little odd to complain about Chinese copies of Indian JLR cars, yet applaud Japanese copies of Scottish Whisky?

You two certainly love your imports

No. But it is a rather odd argument you are making here. Whisky is a generic product that versions of were produced in lots of places going back to ancient times. 

Quote

Whisky is made via distillation of fermented grain and first records of that process was found in the archeological digs of millennia BC Babylon and Mesopotamia.

Just responding to Grizzly's point.  I don't often drink Japanese whisky, too expensive, or American whisky, don't much like it. 

 

Edited May 17, 2018 by Confusion of VIs

[Confusion of VIs]

1 hour ago, GrizzlyDave said:

Not tried it - I’ve had Thai Mekong which was a bit rough.

we’re gonna get that cheap whiskey - Hotel California mate.

It definitely not rough, generally reckoned to be the best in the world and priced as such. Sadly I doubt the tariff reductions will being it down to what I would regard as an affordable level.

[Guest]

32 minutes ago, Confusion of VIs said:

No. But it is a rather odd argument you are making here. Whisky is a generic product that versions of were produced in lots of places going back to ancient times. 

Cars are a generic product that go back to quite old times, stemming from the invention of the wheel combined with the internal combustion engines of the 1700/1800s 

The Japanese automotive industry was based on ripping of western modern car designs, but continuously improving them through Kaizen

I don't see any big difference between the Chinese appropriating JLR's car designs, from the Japanese nicking our car designs decades before, to the Japanese copying & improving Scottish Whisky.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-30682239

Quote

Jessie Roberta Cowan, from Kirkintilloch, had little idea how much her life was going to change when a young Japanese man took up lodgings at her family home in 1918.

Masataka Taketsuru had come to Scotland to study the art of whisky-making, taking up chemistry at Glasgow University before becoming an apprentice at Longmorn Distillery in Speyside and later at Hazelburn Distillery in Campbeltown.

edit: all hail the Great British university knowledge exporting industry!

Edited May 17, 2018 by Guest

[thehowler]

2 hours ago, highYield said:

Grasping at straws here, matey.

Govey Govey biodegradable straws no doubt!

[GrizzlyDave]

19 minutes ago, Confusion of VIs said:

It definitely not rough, generally reckoned to be the best in the world and priced as such. Sadly I doubt the tariff reductions will being it down to what I would regard as an affordable level.

Jap whiskey - yeah I head it’s the business. But trust my Mekong is rough as a barn door.

https://www.thewhiskyexchange.com/p/4923/mekhong-thai-spirit

[thehowler]

1 hour ago, HairyOb1 said:

They inject hormones growth hormones in their beef, they ask chicken carcases with chlorine, and they use genetically modified grain.

I know it's dull to point out but this is minimum standards stuff you're talking about, always rolled out for effect. The Brit consumer could pay more for American beef under any future FTA - some of it rivals the best on the planet.