Brexit What Happens Next Thread ---multiple merged threads.

[macca13]

1 hour ago, thecrashingisles said:

So where did we vote to put the customs border with Ireland? 

I would have another vote.. 

option 1: sit on the roof of the train to get to work (remain and let 500’000 people in per year until we run out of food and water)

option 2: stand in the carriage with your face pressed into someone else’s arm pit. (Leave and allow current migrants to stay but stabilise population at already overpopulated levels) 

There is nowhere for anyone to live, everyone is divided, the air is unbreathable, sea is full of plastic, we’ve killed most of the wildlife.. I don’t see how any remain voter can honestly hand on heart can say that more of the same is going to make the country better.. you must be bat shjt crazy! More people will cause more resentment.. people in the streets beating each other to death.. remainders can say.. I blame Brexit.. ? instead of seeing the route cause.. years of diminishing standards of living caused by population increase.. 

 

Edited January 12, 2018 by macca13

[Confusion of VIs]

1 hour ago, macca13 said:

I would have another vote.. 

option 1: sit on the roof of the train to get to work (remain and let 500’000 people in per year until we run out of food and water)

option 2: stand in the carriage with your face pressed into someone else’s arm pit. (Leave and allow current migrants to stay but stabilise population at already overpopulated levels) 

There is nowhere for anyone to live, everyone is divided, the air is unbreathable, sea is full of plastic, we’ve killed most of the wildlife.. I don’t see how any remain voter can honestly hand on heart can say that more of the same is going to make the country better.. you must be bat shjt crazy! More people will cause more resentment.. people in the streets beating each other to death.. remainders can say.. I blame Brexit.. ? instead of seeing the route cause.. years of diminishing standards of living caused by population increase.. 

 

What makes you think Leaving the EU will reduce immigration. 

If the government actually wanted to do this they could have long ago. One of the Leave campaign promises was that without FoM they could ease up on restrictions on immigration from the sub continent and the Caribbean.

 

[OnionTerror]

4 hours ago, pig said:

Currently it looks like the options are whatever deal the government comes up with or if parliament votes against it it’s WTO.

While on the face of it that seems insane - and there are Brexiters genuinely stupid enough to be happy with those options - logically what other stance could the government offer the EU ?

If they tell the EU ‘give us a shit deal and we’re back’, well, they’ll give us a shit deal.

If you put to one side the Batshit Brexiters will o’ the sheeple, concern that the government is simply weak and incompetent and frankly the whole sorry mess, surely the best scenario for the UK is  to get to point where we have a  choice between  the best deal in the EU and the best deal out of the EU and a ‘second’* referendum, or debate and vote in parliament for the UK to choose between them. 

* in reality it would be the first with an actually informed choice.

 

 

I certainly know what a shite deal will look like for the next 5 -10 years...the "interim" years, whilst we argue over an inferior FTA where we will still have the EU acquis on statute book, in order to sell into the single market...of which we will have no say in shaping...Ironically, under the EEA, we'd have been out in March 2019...

...all you have to do, is to read the EU's communique's...

https://ec.europa.eu/commission/sites/beta-political/files/annex_commissions_recommendation_20-12-2017.pdf

...aka..the vassal state...

Quote

In line with the European Council guidelines of 29 April 2017 and the first set of negotiating directives of 22 May 2017, any time-limited prolongation of the Union acquis requires existing Union regulatory, budgetary, supervisory, judiciary and enforcement instruments and structures to apply, including the competence of the Court of Justice of the European Union.

 

Edited January 12, 2018 by Dave Beans

[Steppenpig]

3 hours ago, Confusion of VIs said:

Oh yes it does.

The wiki article is misleading in that, it doesn't properly describe link between a referendum result and the Act that authorised the referendum.  

The referendum on the alternative vote in 2011 was binding.  It was binding because the Act that contained it said so, describing what would be implemented in the event of a Yes vote. 

This Act that set up the EU referendum contained no reference to what should be done in the event of a Yes or No vote so in legal terms it was just a large expensive opinion poll.  

Fair point.

[macca13]

1 hour ago, Confusion of VIs said:

What makes you think Leaving the EU will reduce immigration. 

If the government actually wanted to do this they could have long ago. One of the Leave campaign promises was that without FoM they could ease up on restrictions on immigration from the sub continent and the Caribbean.

 

Hey I know the government are corrupt but if Tony Blair says Brexit is bad that in itself tells me it must be good! That man has never done anything that’s was for the good of the people! 

Human rights act that allowed illegal immigrant rapists to stay if they had a pet cat. Tony Blair.. why? Because his wife owns a human rights law firm.. makes a few quid so who cares about a few rapes, murders and bombs.. makes him rich it’s all good.. 

illegal war. Why? Who knows, maybe he likes blowing people up, or maybe he had shares in a weapons manufacture.. 

The mans evil.. 

Evil man says remain, we have to leave!

[ccc]

7 hours ago, Confusion of VIs said:

Legally it carries no more weight is a factual statement.

It was advice not a decision, that's another factual statement 

There is no evidence that there is a majority for any specific type of Brexit. How could there have been when 18 months after the vote the government still doesn't know what sort of Brexit it wants/will get, so it's another factual statement 

Clearly you are getting a bit upset now that a second referendum is looking likely. But don't worry if you are right Leave will win again.

 

7 hours ago, Confusion of VIs said:

Says the man making everything up 

To repeat it was an advisory referendum.

Advisory referendum produce advice not decisions.

A binding referendum would have produced a decision, but it wasn't one so it didn't.

 

 

 

  

Second referendum is fine with me. It's a total joke but if it gets you lot finally stopping whinging then at least that's a postive. 

No evidence that the majority for any type of Brexit.

Amazing. Truly amazing. Incredible. 

You just don't live in reality. 

[ccc]

5 hours ago, thecrashingisles said:

So where did we vote to put the customs border with Ireland? 

What ? 

Seriously - what is wrong with you people ? 

Are you honestly saying we should have had the vote with 47 pages of all the potentially detailed end results of negotiations from the vote - and it was up to individuals what one of the 376 options they voted for - and we take it from there ? 

The vote was simple. Yes or no. 

The detail of what happened after that is up to those in government to deal with.

We have gone through this numerous times on here already.

What's so difficult to understand ? 

[ccc]

7 hours ago, Confusion of VIs said:

There is no evidence that there is a majority for any specific type of Brexit.

Just in case anyone missed it. This is a remainer view on what a referendum means.

Binding, non binding, advisory , legal , non legal. Whatever.

Apparently it doesn't even constitute evidence any more.

Truly, truly incredible.

It's so lame. The vote was clear. Yes or no. 2 options.

Didn't get their way. So now after the vote - "soft" and "hard" options have been magicked up from nowhere.

So now we do little polls with more options than the simple yes or no that we actually voted for.

And lo and behold. We can now say - oh but look !! There is no actual majority for any TYPE of Brexit ! Aren't we so smart !!

Because now we have made up "types" since the vote which means there are now 3 options instead of 2 - which pretty much guarantees any poll on this will never result in a majority over 50%.

It's truly shameful fiddling around the edges. 

Stop comparing polls that have different options and questions to the actual vote that took place.

It's ridiculous.

[HairyOb1]

Ah Magic.  Farage knows he's an irrelevance if we do leave the EU, he's a busted flush, a spent penny. If however, like me, he believes the result would be the other way around come 2019/2020/2021, just due to demographics, not just people changing they minds, then it gives him a further few years milking the MSM until he retires, probably trying more desperately for the knighthood he so desperately wants. It also gives him some more fans from the die hard brexiteers left who will need a figurehead.  It's actually fairly smart.  The result he needed in the previous referendum, he'll probably get in the next one.

Happy days.  I do expect some serious bed wetting on here in the next few months as this finally draws to th inevitable conclusion we need a second referendum.  Then we stay.

[HairyOb1]

31 minutes ago, ccc said:

Just in case anyone missed it. This is a remainer view on what a referendum means.

Binding, non binding, advisory , legal , non legal. Whatever.

Apparently it doesn't even constitute evidence any more.

Truly, truly incredible.

It's so lame. The vote was clear. Yes or no. 2 options.

Didn't get their way. So now after the vote - "soft" and "hard" options have been magicked up from nowhere.

So now we do little polls with more options than the simple yes or no that we actually voted for.

And lo and behold. We can now say - oh but look !! There is no actual majority for any TYPE of Brexit ! Aren't we so smart !!

Because now we have made up "types" since the vote which means there are now 3 options instead of 2 - which pretty much guarantees any poll on this will never result in a majority over 50%.

It's truly shameful fiddling around the edges. 

Stop comparing polls that have different options and questions to the actual vote that took place.

It's ridiculous.

It was an advisory, not binding in law.

The next One, I assume will be, but with the knowledge of the deal on offer from the EU, which will be, if they're bright,which I assume they are,spectacularly bad for us.

I said a while ago, a part of me believes May and Davis are deliberately heading us down the no/bad deal route in order, when it is presented to the public, no sane person will vote for it, so we don't end up leaving at all.

Seems I might not be too far from what's going to happen.

I actually hope it's a 52/48 split in favour of remain.  That would genuinely make me chuckle - The people have spoken, but this time from a position of actually knowing the facts.

Pop corn at the ready for the next 12 months.

[HairyOb1]

10 hours ago, Far Canal said:

Second Referendum sounds fine and this could be the only possible question?

Leave the EU with the Deal agreed by the Government

Leave the EU with no Deal

Sounds easy enough to set up doesn't it?

Nah, I'd suggest:

Leave the EU with the Deal agreed by the government

Stay in the EU and renegotiate (but obviously with more capable people doing the negotiating.

Then Barnier et al, can make sure we can a tremendously bad deal, which no sane person would accept.  

That way it's win/win, as we see who votes for it, and keep them away from sharp things, and stay in.

[IMHAL]

3 minutes ago, HairyOb1 said:

Nah, I'd suggest:

Leave the EU with the Deal agreed by the government

Stay in the EU and renegotiate (but obviously with more capable people doing the negotiating.

Then Barnier et al, can make sure we can a tremendously bad deal, which no sane person would accept.  

That way it's win/win, as we see who votes for it, and keep them away from sharp things, and stay in.

I like it.

Option 1: Hard Brexit: (Border with Ireland: Border with Independant Scotland and under WTO, with the additional payments to the EU for access to the single market for 5 years and the say-so of the EU on any deals done whilst under the EU acquis)

Option 2: New Deal with The EU  (dedicated body to improve relationship with the EU, set up a problem solving body, address the concerns of the people, yada yada yada).

That sounds like a fair referendum to me.

Option 1 is clear.

Option 2 is a bit fuzzy, a journey, open-ended, a catch-all, it can mean anything and everything, it is a wide net, it may even deliver rainbows and unicorns - rather like the option for Brexit in the original referendum .

 

 

[tomandlu]

4 hours ago, ccc said:

 

Second referendum is fine with me. It's a total joke but if it gets you lot finally stopping whinging then at least that's a postive.

A remainer here. Don't count on it. Here's my conversation with another remainer over at the Grauniad:

Quote

Me: Remain voter here - if Leave wins again, does everyone promise to STFU about reversing brexit?
Them: No. Leaving will always be the wrong thing to do on every level.
Me: So, basically no point in another referendum. That's a shame.
Them: No, basically no point in leaving. There, that wasn't hard, was it.
Me: I agree - however, what you are saying is that you will ignore a democratic decision until you get the answer you want, at which point, presumably, you would regard it as sacrosanct. That is undemocratic and hypocritical.

 

[Futuroid]

11 hours ago, macca13 said:

What a load of bullox.. the economy is crap because of immigration not because we don’t have enough of it.. slave labour and stagnant wages only benefit the elites.. That’s why 15 BTL properties, financed by big business Tony Blair wants it stopped.. more slaves, more poverty, worse living standards.. he loves it.. 

pay a low life like Blair enough money, put your hand your his bum and move his lips! 

 

Poor Tone was just following Michael Foot's (father of Corbyn) manifesto. Before he was even an MP he probably found it was a bit tricky to influence the Labour Party Election manifesto 

[winkie]

.....you can checkout anytime you like.........

[Futuroid]

14 hours ago, DarkHorseWaits-NoMore said:

I think he knows a second vote of some kind is inevitable and is jumping early on that reality.

Yes, when thinking about his rationale for this move overnight two things popped into my mind:

1 - He knows that the longer they leave it, the worse the economic situation will be and the more compelling a change to remain will become for some people. Get the second vote done quickly before more economic consequences become evident and then it's locked in for "a generation". 

2 - The use of the words "for a generation" got me thinking about average voter age. He and his acolytes must know that their voter base is mostly comprised of people who were born before the existence of the EEC and that in general the younger voters favour remain. The longer you leave it to have a second vote, the fewer leave voters left alive and the more new remainers arrive on the electoral register.

[jonb2]

11 hours ago, macca13 said:

We will implement what you decide! Unless we don’t like the result.. then it’s best of 2.. Or 3 or 4 until we win! 

You still want to hand on responsibility for your future to THIS government???

They seem to be doing so well don't they?

They came up with the idea - you believed them. And you STILL believe them??

Jesus wept!

[jonb2]

6 hours ago, macca13 said:

Hey I know the government are corrupt but if Tony Blair says Brexit is bad that in itself tells me it must be good! That man has never done anything that’s was for the good of the people! 

Human rights act that allowed illegal immigrant rapists to stay if they had a pet cat. Tony Blair.. why? Because his wife owns a human rights law firm.. makes a few quid so who cares about a few rapes, murders and bombs.. makes him rich it’s all good.. 

illegal war. Why? Who knows, maybe he likes blowing people up, or maybe he had shares in a weapons manufacture.. 

The mans evil.. 

Evil man says remain, we have to leave!

Totally agree about Blair Macca.

Point me to others that YOU do believe in to run this place please.

[Confusion of VIs]

5 hours ago, ccc said:

 

Second referendum is fine with me. It's a total joke but if it gets you lot finally stopping whinging then at least that's a postive. 

No evidence that the majority for any type of Brexit.

Amazing. Truly amazing. Incredible. 

You just don't live in reality. 

Clearly one of us doesn't.

Perhaps you would like to explain exactly which type of Brexit would command a majority, and what the evidence is that supports your view.  

[Insane]

6 hours ago, ccc said:

What ? 

Seriously - what is wrong with you people ? 

Are you honestly saying we should have had the vote with 47 pages of all the potentially detailed end results of negotiations from the vote - and it was up to individuals what one of the 376 options they voted for - and we take it from there ? 

The vote was simple. Yes or no. 

The detail of what happened after that is up to those in government to deal with.

We have gone through this numerous times on here already.

What's so difficult to understand ? 

+ 1

[ccc]

7 hours ago, HairyOb1 said:

It was an advisory, not binding in law.

The next One, I assume will be, but with the knowledge of the deal on offer from the EU, which will be, if they're bright,which I assume they are,spectacularly bad for us.

I said a while ago, a part of me believes May and Davis are deliberately heading us down the no/bad deal route in order, when it is presented to the public, no sane person will vote for it, so we don't end up leaving at all.

Seems I might not be too far from what's going to happen.

I actually hope it's a 52/48 split in favour of remain.  That would genuinely make me chuckle - The people have spoken, but this time from a position of actually knowing the facts.

Pop corn at the ready for the next 12 months.

It is entirely possible that our Politicians are taking the absolute piss. No argument there.

They are probably just being useless though.

3 hours ago, tomandlu said:

A remainer here. Don't count on it. Here's my conversation with another remainer over at the Grauniad:

 

Incredible. Like toddlers. Literally like toddlers.

And yes not all remain voters are like this. Many are not. I know a fair few. But the hissyfit ones really do give the rest a bad name.

2 hours ago, Confusion of VIs said:

Clearly one of us doesn't.

Perhaps you would like to explain exactly which type of Brexit would command a majority, and what the evidence is that supports your view.  

Type of Brexit ? Sorry - I must have missed that being mentioned BEFORE the vote.

You have thousands of posts on this subject. Go and find me just a single one where you mention 'Types' of 'hard' or 'soft' Brexit PRIOR to the vote.

If you cannot do that - then you are just full of post vote loss hissy fitting.

The vote was for two choices. Not three. There is no 'type' of Brexit in regards to the vote.

[macca13]

3 hours ago, jonb2 said:

You still want to hand on responsibility for your future to THIS government???

They seem to be doing so well don't they?

They came up with the idea - you believed them. And you STILL believe them??

Jesus wept!

Course I don’t.. short of pitch forks and baseball bats there is no good option.. I’ve never voted Labour and the thought of Dianne Abot anywhere near power scares me.. But Corbyn has some good policies, his party keep trying to vote him out so maybe he is not your average Westminster I’m alright jack scumbag.. So dare I say it, next election could be my first Labour vote ever.. Teresa May is a remain voter, Corbyn has voted against EU policy changes throughout his political life.. so watch what they do not what they say..  

[pig]

1 hour ago, ccc said:

It is entirely possible that our Politicians are taking the absolute piss. No argument there.

They are probably just being useless though.

Incredible. Like toddlers. Literally like toddlers.

And yes not all remain voters are like this. Many are not. I know a fair few. But the hissyfit ones really do give the rest a bad name.

Type of Brexit ? Sorry - I must have missed that being mentioned BEFORE the vote.

You have thousands of posts on this subject. Go and find me just a single one where you mention 'Types' of 'hard' or 'soft' Brexit PRIOR to the vote.

If you cannot do that - then you are just full of post vote loss hissy fitting.

The vote was for two choices. Not three. There is no 'type' of Brexit in regards to the vote.

Well lets leave the EU and keep immigration the single market and the customs union - simples.

Why are you getting your knickers in a twist lol ?

[Confusion of VIs]

36 minutes ago, ccc said:

 

Type of Brexit ? Sorry - I must have missed that being mentioned BEFORE the vote.

You have thousands of posts on this subject. Go and find me just a single one where you mention 'Types' of 'hard' or 'soft' Brexit PRIOR to the vote.

If you cannot do that - then you are just full of post vote loss hissy fitting.

The vote was for two choices. Not three. There is no 'type' of Brexit in regards to the vote.

No you didn't miss anything, the Leave campaign deliberately didn't discuss which of the many possible Brexit options they supported. That's actually the point I was making.

 Not really surprising that none of my posts on a thread started after the vote were made before the vote 

Your argument is that all of the 52%, would support any type of Brexit.  So everyone would be happy with anything from a complete no deal (North Korea) Brexit. To a Brexit in name only (Norway) that costs us £40bn to leave the EU and we then continue to pay £10bn a year for access to the single market.

That is so obviously nuts that even you cannot believe it    

[ccc]

18 minutes ago, pig said:

Well lets leave the EU and keep immigration the single market and the customs union - simples.

Why are you getting your knickers in a twist lol ?

I'm just pointing out the hilarity of many of the comments on here.

In terms of the above ? Sorry - no go. Every single political party agreed before the vote [Correct me if I am wrong] that a vote to leave the EU would be a vote to leave all of these.