Riedquat Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 52 minutes ago, Confusion of VIs said: How, as John2 says it is a creeping Americanisation that is driving this. Leaving the EU and the inevitable cozying up to the US will only speed things up. And the EU is helping it succeed in doing that, to its members as a whole. The rest, get voting for someone not so keen on bending over to take it from whatever big money is on offer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccc Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 17 hours ago, IMHAL said: A sniper, who specialise in rubishing a posters input without addressing the substantive points and who uses various tools like 'you must be foreign' tag to discredit you. Does not respond to logic, uses distraction and other methods to derail conversations that do not accord with their views. When really pushed, comes back with trite responses with no substance or real meaning. Prevents any discussion from being advanced. A negative influence on honest discussion and a bad inflence on other posters as they get sucked into backbiting and tit for tat brawls which consume time and effort needlessly. In short, a waste of zero's an one's on the internet. Best not to feed.....hope for atrophy. I don't know if the above is the definition of a troll....... but it sounds like it might be. . Absolutely priceless. You know what ? I am now going to go through and find the last 20 posts by Rollover. Lets see it all laid out in black and white. Lets see if they have any 'substantive points' to make in this random selection of the last 20 posts. Give me a wee while and you may wish to admit that perhaps my opinions on Rollover are spot on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dryrot Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 (edited) 20 hours ago, IMHAL said: Thank, I've been away for a few days. Will read your feedback and link carefully, hopefully we will also get some more examples from octapus and maybe some more from copydude. I am really keen to see what this 'wresting back control' from the EU really really means (ie the biggies!). It would be good to get them all out on the table before responding piecemeal. Cheers. Equally (and sorry I called you "Imgur" on the last quote -typo !) For more on the EU Commission, and law-making, (and immigration!) https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/11698/mass-migration-european-commission "Dimitris Avramopoulos, the European Commissioner for Migration, Home Affairs and Citizenship, recently published a startling opinion, advocating for more immigration as an inescapable reality to which European citizens should just adapt without any further discussion. The article illustrates much of what is wrong with European institutions, in particular the European Commission, a mixture of bureaucratic arrogance, false creed based on dogma rather than facts, and a disdain for democratic debate. The Commission, based in Brussels, is not elected but, according to EU treaties, it has a monopoly -- yes, a monopoly -- on initiating legislation at the European level. Each Commissioner is an appointed bureaucrat, one for each member state -- often a former top politician, now sidelined in his country of origin, therefore with very little democratic legitimacy. "It is time to face the truth.... The only way to make our asylum and migration policies future-proof is collectively to change our way of thinking first," wrote Avramopoulos. Does he think that grass-roots citizens do not think? Like Zeus -- another Greek -- on Mount Olympus, the truth comes from the upper floor of the Berlaymont building, the official headquarters of the European Commission in Brussels, as a top-down process. Hey, stupid dudes who want to control immigration, just listen the new self-proclaimed God-bureaucrat and shut up because: "we cannot and will never be able to stop migration". Period." This is not how i want to be governed. (And, as anyone bar the more deranged-Remainers can see, the last series of EU country elections shows that no-one else wants to be governed that way either) EDIT: add linky to Commissioners paper: https://www.politico.eu/article/europe-migration-migrants-are-here-to-stay-refugee-crisis/ Edited January 8, 2018 by dryrot add linky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccc Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 18 hours ago, rollover said: Back with the usual trolling? On 07/01/2018 at 11:59 AM, rollover said: Quite gloomy explanation of the VAT changes post-Brexit by Richard Murphy. On 07/01/2018 at 10:17 AM, rollover said: Very good article with charts. The 759 agreements are described as essential. On 06/01/2018 at 11:31 PM, rollover said: It's going to be a big blow to the hopeful. On 06/01/2018 at 8:36 PM, rollover said: Well ..., Brexit Secretary David Davis is expected to stay in post after next week reshuffles. Telegraph On 06/01/2018 at 8:29 PM, rollover said: Boris Johnson sees super-charged' brexit role as demotion On 05/01/2018 at 9:45 PM, rollover said: No, In the view of "a hard Brexit". On 05/01/2018 at 9:40 PM, rollover said: Yes you're correct and I have to agree with you again. Hard Brexit is not a viable option at all. On 05/01/2018 at 9:15 PM, rollover said: I agree with you, there's a multitude of obvious problems with soft Brexit. But hard Brexit is not viable option at all. On 05/01/2018 at 7:55 PM, rollover said: It's clear that Philip Hammond sees soft Brexit as the only possible option how to go out from the disorganization. PS: Thanks for correcting my spelling mistake. On 04/01/2018 at 10:16 PM, rollover said: I would like to share hard Brexiters optimism on post Brexit trade paradise. On 04/01/2018 at 9:21 PM, rollover said: Team for trade talk is not ready, cabinet doesn't know clearly what it wants, time is running out ..... What could possibly go wrong? On 04/01/2018 at 8:01 PM, rollover said: I agree as well that Brexit is a safetly valve. Most people except of some hard brexiteres will be finally relieved. Too early? I thought it's already too late. On 04/01/2018 at 7:51 PM, rollover said: ccc is this your life motto? On 03/01/2018 at 8:34 PM, rollover said: You are not serious, Britain would need to import masses of foreign workers to do the jobs. On 02/01/2018 at 6:28 PM, rollover said: I know you have different opinion about Brexit, but this kind of abuse from your side while disagreeing with someone and try to prove your point at any costs is simply too much. You are on my ignore list now! On 02/01/2018 at 3:52 PM, rollover said: On 02/01/2018 at 3:52 PM, rollover said: This your question was unrelated to the point, you've just willfully thrown it in. and your second point: "The universe is running out of time." is hilarious comparisons with Brexit. On 02/01/2018 at 3:14 PM, rollover said: Now, you're just being silly. Isn't it? On 02/01/2018 at 2:23 PM, rollover said: There is not much time left for Brexit to be negotiated and implemented. For that reason the outcomes are already limited. On 02/01/2018 at 1:37 PM, rollover said: Britain sliding down a ranking of top destinations is worrying and not something to cheer up. Lesser skills quality of migrants and not less migrants will be the Brexit outcome. On 02/01/2018 at 11:24 AM, rollover said: And what if they screw Brexit up spectacularly? On 02/01/2018 at 11:14 AM, rollover said: No, that's what you are saying. Once again, we discussed xenophobia and the end result (Brexit) yesterday. On 02/01/2018 at 10:22 AM, rollover said: Too slow for Brexit. On 02/01/2018 at 9:50 AM, rollover said: You tried to be right again? And everyone else who do not agree with you is wrong? It's difficult to defeat someone with languorous arguments during a discussion and pretend you are right. On 02/01/2018 at 1:31 AM, rollover said: Isn't David Davis to be sidelined in reshuffle? But surely the best way to achieve DD idea is to stay in the EU. On 02/01/2018 at 12:43 AM, rollover said: If you add the know factor time, on which side the signs of strain appear? Really, really slowly could be too slow. On 02/01/2018 at 12:30 AM, rollover said: ccc was that you who did that? On 01/01/2018 at 11:08 PM, rollover said: And what if you miscalculated? 29 posts. Most of them single line. Some at the most two lines. 14 links to various other sites. I did think previously either bot or foreign troll / paid to put up links. However there was one spelling mistake corrected and I don't think bots have got to that stage yet. So foreign troll / link maker it is. IMO. Everyone else is free to make up their own minds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonb2 Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 52 minutes ago, kzb said: It's a simple yes/no referendum question. Vote yes or no to a house price crash. Simple yes/no answers to multi-dimensional questions are idiotic. Which is why we have Brexit. If you want a house price crash - which we all believe in - make sure you have the employment security to purchase. The likelihood of which is doubtful as Brexit causes the isolation against world trade and decline in solid investment here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccc Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 I would vote for a house price crash. However its a pretty pointless question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confusion of VIs Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 19 minutes ago, Riedquat said: And the EU is helping it succeed in doing that, to its members as a whole. The rest, get voting for someone not so keen on bending over to take it from whatever big money is on offer. How? There is no obvious logic in your position, in fact by rejecting TTIP and having enough clout to stand up to the huge US tech firms it is slowing the creeping Americanisation. On the other hand it is pretty obvious that we will be bending over far further once we are out of the EU and desperate to get new trade deals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonb2 Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 52 minutes ago, kzb said: It's a simple yes/no referendum question. Vote yes or no to a house price crash. Simple yes/no answers to multi-dimensional questions are idiotic. Which is why we have Brexit. If you want a house price crash - which we all believe in - make sure you have the employment security to purchase. The likelihood of which is doubtful as Brexit causes the isolation against world trade and decline in solid investment here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kzb Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 1 hour ago, ccc said: I would vote for a house price crash. However its a pretty pointless question. We are on the house price crash forum. Presumably posters on here believe in a HPC. A house price crash would be very bad for individuals in the south east who bought in years ago. Also the mainstream economists would say it's bad for "the economy". Would persons vote for a house price crash, even when they have a vested interest in NOT having a HPC, as a house owner, and when the experts tell them it will be a disaster for the economy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccc Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 3 minutes ago, kzb said: We are on the house price crash forum. Presumably posters on here believe in a HPC. A house price crash would be very bad for individuals in the south east who bought in years ago. Also the mainstream economists would say it's bad for "the economy". Would persons vote for a house price crash, even when they have a vested interest in NOT having a HPC, as a house owner, and when the experts tell them it will be a disaster for the economy? There are plenty of folk on here over the years - and no doubt today - who would personally 'lose' money in a HPC but fully support it happening. They realise that how much their house is 'worth' on paper doesn't mean a huge amount if their kids are royally ******ed. No doubt the exception though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IMHAL Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 (edited) 4 hours ago, kzb said: Here we are on the House Price Crash forum. Persons on here wish to see house prices vastly reduced, and for it to happen on a very short time scale. A house price crash literally. However, economic experts will tell you this would be disaster for the wider economy. So much so that the full range of media and government effort is deployed to prevent this happening. Indeed all mainstream effort is directed at increasing property prices, against the wishes of the vast majority of young people. SO the question is, knowing that it would be portrayed as a disaster for the wider UK economy, would you vote for a House Price Crash? You have shown in a very simple and relevant way is why the Brexit referendum was not a good idea. Lets take this idea a little further, we could have a referendum that asks 'would you vote for a free house' or 'would you vote for a million pounds to be given to you'. All of these referenda come with very real negative consequences, including voting for an instantaneous hpc and potentially Brexit. EDIT: I should add that they all look attractive superficially and I suspect that the average bod will look no further that what is in it for him/her in the short term without bothering to look at the long term effects.. Edited January 8, 2018 by IMHAL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rollover Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 1 hour ago, ccc said: 29 posts. Most of them single line. Some at the most two lines. 14 links to various other sites. I did think previously either bot or foreign troll / paid to put up links. However there was one spelling mistake corrected and I don't think bots have got to that stage yet. So foreign troll / link maker it is. IMO. Everyone else is free to make up their own minds. You are wrong, as usual. Your trolling remarks are usually unrelated to the Brexit (what happens next) and only distracting other posters discussion. I think you have to be paid troll, paid per volume regarding what rubbish you post. Something like cold caller. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kzb Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 1 hour ago, IMHAL said: You have shown in a very simple and relevant way is why the Brexit referendum was not a good idea. Lets take this idea a little further, we could have a referendum that asks 'would you vote for a free house' or 'would you vote for a million pounds to be given to you'. All of these referenda come with very real negative consequences, including voting for an instantaneous hpc and potentially Brexit. No it's not quite the same as your ideas. No-one on here has campaigned to be given a free house or to be given a million pounds. HPC, of the size and speed that most on here want, would trash GDP, lead to huge bankruptcies, job losses and a deep recession. The experts would advise this would certainly happen. I would tend to believe them in this case, at least in the short term. Despite this, people on here want a sizable and rapid reduction in house prices. We all know it needs to happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccc Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 1 hour ago, rollover said: You are wrong, as usual. Your trolling remarks are usually unrelated to the Brexit (what happens next) and only distracting other posters discussion. I think you have to be paid troll, paid per volume regarding what rubbish you post. Something like cold caller. Great response You've been had. No point denying it. I'm not the only one who has clocked you. Your English is terrible. You clearly are not from this country. So why are you coming on here to tell us all how bad a decision Brexit was ? Bit of a cheek no ? I find that incredibly rude. How about you tell us where you are from. I will start putting up links to stories from that country and comment on them ? Only fair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rollover Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 3 minutes ago, ccc said: Great response You've been had. No point denying it. I'm not the only one who has clocked you. Your English is terrible. You clearly are not from this country. So why are you coming on here to tell us all how bad a decision Brexit was ? Bit of a cheek no ? I find that incredibly rude. How about you tell us where you are from. I will start putting up links to stories from that country and comment on them ? Only fair. Again, unrelated to the topic. I think you are paid troll. I'm not the only one who has clocked you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkHorseWaits-NoMore Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 Reminisce: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thecrashingisles Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 6 hours ago, debtlessmanc said: and 800 years since Magna Carta. The UK is hurtling towards oblivion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rollover Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 Is not ccc cup of tea, but Quote Half of British voters say May is incapable of getting the right Brexit deal Reuters Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 6 hours ago, Confusion of VIs said: That view is now pretty out of date. The changes already/being made to mortgage lending criteria/capital requirements and the impending demise of BTL will deliver large house price falls. What the government is trying to do is to manage the process over a long enough timeframe to avoid both stalling housebuilding and tipping us into a recession that would result in them being kicked out at the next GE. I doubt they will manage it. past history shows that markets don't move smoothly and Brexit is an additional complicating factor. The impending House Price Crash has nothing to do with Brexit? But the guy who ran our economy, the ex-chancellor, who after all introduced S24 etc, told us that Brexit would cause a 20% fall in house prices. Was he just scaremongering / making stuff up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rollover Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 3 minutes ago, highYield said: The impending House Price Crash has nothing to do with Brexit? But the guy who ran our economy, the ex-chancellor, who after all introduced S24 etc, told us that Brexit would cause a 20% fall in house prices. Was he just scaremongering / making stuff up? Brexit haven't happened yet. It's simply too early to say, you have to wait till 2021 or beyond. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IMHAL Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 4 hours ago, kzb said: No it's not quite the same as your ideas. No-one on here has campaigned to be given a free house or to be given a million pounds. HPC, of the size and speed that most on here want, would trash GDP, lead to huge bankruptcies, job losses and a deep recession. The experts would advise this would certainly happen. I would tend to believe them in this case, at least in the short term. Despite this, people on here want a sizable and rapid reduction in house prices. We all know it needs to happen. You are correct, my taking it further ideas are different, thet are meant to be, to illustrate a point. I should just point out that there is no campaign for a hpc either. People want a hpc on here no doubt, i would also posit that they would want a free house or a million pounds too. Voting for a hpc is unrealistic and damaging, as is voting for a free house, a million pounds or (as was my original point) Brexit! I am not trying to be awkward - just trying to illustrate the point that Brexit falls into the same category as voting for all these three - and people voted for it, except I'd say that they voted for it because initially they thought that they would be better off (at least originally). Now and in hindsight, they may have rationalised and justified it as "it will be worth it in the long term". I really believe that soon, even this narrative will shift to "I'd rather live poor than under EU control". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittlePig Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 (edited) 18 minutes ago, IMHAL said: You are correct, my taking it further ideas are different, thet are meant to be, to illustrate a point. I should just point out that there is no campaign for a hpc either. People want a hpc on here no doubt, i would also posit that they would want a free house or a million pounds too. Voting for a hpc is unrealistic and damaging, as is voting for a free house, a million pounds or (as was my original point) Brexit! I am not trying to be awkward - just trying to illustrate the point that Brexit falls into the same category as voting for all these three - and people voted for it, except I'd say that they voted for it because initially they thought that they would be better off (at least originally). Now and in hindsight, they may have rationalised and justified it as "it will be worth it in the long term". I really believe that soon, even this narrative will shift to "I'd rather live poor than under EU control". Yawn. Insane HPI is great for the economy and individuals within it. Right, right? Just jealous of the Mad Gainz Activate Venger ! Edited January 8, 2018 by LittlePig Paging Venger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccc Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 3 hours ago, rollover said: Again, unrelated to the topic. I think you are paid troll. I'm not the only one who has clocked you. 3 hours ago, rollover said: Is not ccc cup of tea, but 2 hours ago, rollover said: Brexit haven't happened yet. It's simply too early to say, you have to wait till 2021 or beyond. Actually I take it back. You could still be a bot afterall. Brilliant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confusion of VIs Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 3 hours ago, highYield said: The impending House Price Crash has nothing to do with Brexit? But the guy who ran our economy, the ex-chancellor, who after all introduced S24 etc, told us that Brexit would cause a 20% fall in house prices. Was he just scaremongering / making stuff up? I agree it was already baked in by Osborne's changes to BTL taxation and revisions to mortgage lending criteria. That said Brexit will have some impact whether by continuing low interest rates delaying price corrections or worries about the future bringing them forward. IIRC Osborne/OBR actually predicted that houses would go up 10-18% less over the coming years than if we voted remain, as prices were forecast to go up by 30% this did not translate into a prediction of falling prices. However, sloppy reporting translated this into a headlines saying prices will fall by 18%, so yes it was made up but not by Osborne. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IMHAL Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 23 minutes ago, LittlePig said: Yawn. Insane HPI is great for the economy and individuals within it. Right, right? Just jealous of the Mad Gainz Activate Venger ! I think you may have the wrong end of the stick. I am all for house prices falling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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