Brexit What Happens Next Thread ---multiple merged threads.

[kzb]

British alcohol and chocolate companies in high spirits after CPTPP sales soar

Latest figures show luxury British staples such as Scotch Whisky, chocolate and sparkling wine are being ordered en masse by CPTPP countries including Singapore, Japan, Mexico and Malaysia. Over the past year, UK chocolate exports to Singapore have increased by 220% in current prices to over £26 million while UK sparkling wine exports to Japan have increased by 140% to over £26 million.   

Scotch Whisky continues to dominate the Singapore market, with over £380 million worth of Scotch Whisky exported from the UK to Singapore over the last year, an increase of 31% (£90 million) in current prices on the previous year. Its huge popularity extends to other markets in CPTPP, with a 43% (£11 million) increase of Scotch Whisky exports to Malaysia over the past year. 

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/british-alcohol-and-chocolate-companies-in-high-spirits-after-cptpp-sales-soar

Happy New Year

[Bob8]

40 minutes ago, kzb said:

OK I thought you meant the country.

Firstly I don't believe this survey for the reasons above.  But I have to say, given the anti-Brexit bias on all TV channels (with exception of GB News possibly), it is surely my duty to bring the other side of the story.

The BBC and Channel 4 did not tell us about this climb down on the rules of origin.  But they certainly told us about it a few months back, when they presented it as the EU getting one over on the UK.  When the real story was that it was going to punish their own car industry also, and it was inevitable it would get postponed.

I told you this, and the BBC did not.  So I am providing a valuable service.

What would you say the main concrete positive contributions of brexit have been? Real, solid things that are better than if we have been in the EU?

Perhaps an industry that has benefitted to balance out those that are worse off?

Perhaps that our immigration is more multi-cultural than it would have been in the EU?

[dugsbody]

On 31/12/2023 at 10:40, Huggy said:

I don't quite follow? Are you saying that it was the Leavers that stopped us from leaving? That's quite a bold claim if so.

It's not a bold claim, it's on record.

[Huggy]

22 minutes ago, dugsbody said:

It's not a bold claim, it's on record.

You do believe that, blimey. I'm not aware of this record I'm afraid, but i will try and take a guess what it is.

Is it that Leavers were not able to explain further the answer to following (agreed by everyone who matters) question?

"Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?"

With the two answers being Remain or Leave.

Therefore, because Leavers couldn't give more details, the (ulta-Remain) parliament were forced to block it?

As I don't fancy playing a yes/no game, had too much of that over Christmas ("Am I in movies?" etc etc etc etc), please feel free to expand on any answer, especialy if any point there is wrong

[Bob8]

1 hour ago, Huggy said:

You do believe that, blimey. I'm not aware of this record I'm afraid, but i will try and take a guess what it is.

Is it that Leavers were not able to explain further the answer to following (agreed by everyone who matters) question?

"Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?"

With the two answers being Remain or Leave.

Therefore, because Leavers couldn't give more details, the (ulta-Remain) parliament were forced to block it?

As I don't fancy playing a yes/no game, had too much of that over Christmas ("Am I in movies?" etc etc etc etc), please feel free to expand on any answer, especialy if any point there is wrong

We are not a member of the EU.

We have also left the customs union and single market, even though that was not voted on.

I thought you would know this.

[MonsieurCopperCrutch]

5 hours ago, Bob8 said:

We are not a member of the EU.

We have also left the customs union and single market, even though that was not voted on.

I thought you would know this.

Sounds like another of the clowns that didn’t know what they were voting on. 

[winkie]

10 hours ago, Bob8 said:

We are not a member of the EU.

We have also left the customs union and single market, even though that was not voted on.

I thought you would know this.

How many Brits who can have applied for a second European passport they would not have done otherwise if we were still a member of the EU or the deal was not so hard, so can  continue to freely move within the Schengen areas, bringing back the freedom and choices that were removed? 

[dugsbody]

11 hours ago, Huggy said:

You do believe that, blimey. I'm not aware of this record I'm afraid, but i will try and take a guess what it is.

Is it that Leavers were not able to explain further the answer to following (agreed by everyone who matters) question?

"Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?"

With the two answers being Remain or Leave.

Therefore, because Leavers couldn't give more details, the (ulta-Remain) parliament were forced to block it?

As I don't fancy playing a yes/no game, had too much of that over Christmas ("Am I in movies?" etc etc etc etc), please feel free to expand on any answer, especialy if any point there is wrong

The brexiters in parliament voted several times against deals that would have taken us out of the EU. You are aware of that, I'm positive, so I don't think I'm the one playing games.

[Bob8]

47 minutes ago, dugsbody said:

The brexiters in parliament voted several times against deals that would have taken us out of the EU. You are aware of that, I'm positive, so I don't think I'm the one playing games.

He seems to change his claim on whether the UK is in the EU or not quite regularly.

[Huggy]

12 hours ago, Bob8 said:

We have also left the customs union and single market, even though that was not voted on.

So? Those in parliament, that costs over £100m pa, can deal with those little bits. This year, we'll do another vote and no more details are needed than Tory, or Labour, or LD or whoever. They're paid to make those decisions and they can do it without my help.

1 hour ago, Bob8 said:

He seems to change his claim on whether the UK is in the EU or not quite regularly.

You're mistaken, we left in 2020. Links please to back up this claim...

1 hour ago, dugsbody said:

The brexiters in parliament voted several times against deals that would have taken us out of the EU. You are aware of that, I'm positive, so I don't think I'm the one playing games.

Yes, I remember the no deal is better than a bad deal stuff. Their 'help' in stopping us from leaving is inconsequential to the actions of the rest of them though. Possibly split as low as 15/85 (at the very most) in terms of blame.

Just look at the end result if you don't believe me. Parliament changed massively on a 'Get Brexit Done' ticket and we left 6 weeks later. None of the big mouths, Sourberry, Grieving, the 'What is a woman?" Lib Dem girl survived that. Our exit was a breeze then.

Accepting the 15/85 split, I mostly blame Leavers in Parliament for the delay.

Edited January 2 by Huggy

[pig]

22 hours ago, kzb said:

OK I thought you meant the country.

Firstly I don't believe this survey for the reasons above.  But I have to say, given the anti-Brexit bias on all TV channels (with exception of GB News possibly), it is surely my duty to bring the other side of the story.

The BBC and Channel 4 did not tell us about this climb down on the rules of origin.  But they certainly told us about it a few months back, when they presented it as the EU getting one over on the UK.  When the real story was that it was going to punish their own car industry also, and it was inevitable it would get postponed.

I told you this, and the BBC did not.  So I am providing a valuable service.

Suffice to say I don't really believe you. I think you just want to support Brexit and so have resorted to the 'fake news' method of response (again). Its getting a little tired now as a rhetorical method.

Tbh still wanting to support Brexit in itself is actually OK, but the claptrap just gets in the way of you explaining the core reason why.  Is it a 'nationalist' thing for example ? Do you trace your family back to King Aethlered and see the EU as a furrener invasion poisoning the purity of Albion ? 

[kzb]

On 01/01/2024 at 15:04, Bob8 said:

What would you say the main concrete positive contributions of brexit have been? Real, solid things that are better than if we have been in the EU?

Perhaps an industry that has benefitted to balance out those that are worse off?

Perhaps that our immigration is more multi-cultural than it would have been in the EU?

A few weeks back Bob I thought you were improving.  I seem to recall you coming out with something relatively sensible on one occasion.  But now you parroting "that question" again.  Round and round the circle we go.

However, I do have something additional to present.  And that is the EU has ignored its own treaties and is borrowing vast sums of money to dish out.

Over the Christmas period they have dished out €38.2 billion in borrowed money to France, Italy and several other countries (including Turkiye, which isn't even in the EU).

The total borrowing under this scheme will come to €730 billion.

The UK would have been on the hook for about 13% of that debt, in the region of €95 billion.

So I think we have dodged a big bullet there.

 

[kzb]

5 hours ago, pig said:

Suffice to say I don't really believe you. I think you just want to support Brexit and so have resorted to the 'fake news' method of response (again). Its getting a little tired now as a rhetorical method.

I gave you the Reuters link for the rules of origin story.  And I still get accused of lying.  I think you need to apologise.

[pig]

16 minutes ago, kzb said:

I gave you the Reuters link for the rules of origin story.  And I still get accused of lying.  I think you need to apologise.

I do not believe you think Brexit is popular. I think you try to rubbish polls that point out its unpopularity, while referencing some petition for another referendum as a means of trying to evade a reasonable understanding of the current situation. 

Assuming my belief is correct its more interesting knowing why, as that understanding is part of understanding Brexit itself.

[kzb]

5 minutes ago, pig said:

I do not believe you think Brexit is popular. I think you try to rubbish polls that point out its unpopularity, while referencing some petition for another referendum as a means of trying to evade a reasonable understanding of the current situation. 

Assuming my belief is correct its more interesting knowing why, as that understanding is part of understanding Brexit itself.

I never said that Brexit is popular.  I said that survey (not a poll) would obviously be biased against Brexit.

It's actually you that needs to gain understanding, not me.

The real situation is much more equal.  Also nobody wants another Brexit referendum, that seems plain.  So we are were we are, why not accept and go with the majority decision.

[pig]

6 minutes ago, kzb said:

I never said that Brexit is popular.  I said that survey (not a poll) would obviously be biased against Brexit.

It's actually you that needs to gain understanding, not me.

The real situation is much more equal.  Also nobody wants another Brexit referendum, that seems plain.  So we are were we are, why not accept and go with the majority decision.

Then let me try to clarify. I would like to understand why an individual would obsessively put up perverse arguments in defence of Brexit.  Nearly a decade later, picking apart said arguments over and over again is considerably less interesting than understanding your motivation in trying them on in the first place.

My impression over that period is that actually you couldn't care less about democracy or economics or any reasonable take on reality - which of course to be fair always has to be provisional. It might simply be stubborn habit, but I've asked you if its a form of 'nationalism' , as that tends to be irreducible to rational debate. An alternative might be that like Sunak and the next election, the idea is to keep on going as long as possible in the hope that something turns up. But then that just begs the question what is the motivation in the first place ? For the conservatives its power. For you its what ? You are wedded to idea of Brexit in a fuzzy nationalist way and hope that somehow the reality eventually resolves itself into something beneficial to the country ?

[NorthamptonBear]

Brexit was a religion, a mass hysteria, form of rebellion, rabble roused.

I liken it to communism in the 1930s. 

Popular amongst many until reality bit.

Still some believers in the 1950s (some democratic communist government representation), but many disillusioned - just caught up in it.

Now, a certain level of support but democratically irrelevant and laughable.

 

[pig]

28 minutes ago, NorthamptonBear said:

Brexit was a religion, a mass hysteria, form of rebellion, rabble roused.

I liken it to communism in the 1930s. 

Popular amongst many until reality bit.

Still some believers in the 1950s (some democratic communist government representation), but many disillusioned - just caught up in it.

Now, a certain level of support but democratically irrelevant and laughable.

 

Its as if we're in the Cold War again but with the politics flipped from Left to Bight...

[kzb]

On 02/01/2024 at 18:53, pig said:

Then let me try to clarify. I would like to understand why an individual would obsessively put up perverse arguments in defence of Brexit.  Nearly a decade later, picking apart said arguments over and over again is considerably less interesting than understanding your motivation in trying them on in the first place.

My impression over that period is that actually you couldn't care less about democracy or economics or any reasonable take on reality - which of course to be fair always has to be provisional. It might simply be stubborn habit, but I've asked you if its a form of 'nationalism' , as that tends to be irreducible to rational debate. An alternative might be that like Sunak and the next election, the idea is to keep on going as long as possible in the hope that something turns up. But then that just begs the question what is the motivation in the first place ? For the conservatives its power. For you its what ? You are wedded to idea of Brexit in a fuzzy nationalist way and hope that somehow the reality eventually resolves itself into something beneficial to the country ?

There's nothing complicated about it.

It's simply a feeling that we are better off having control over our own affairs.  Then there are the economics, why be stuck in a Soviet Union style protectionist bloc when we don't need to be.

These are the motivations.

[Huggy]

5 hours ago, NorthamptonBear said:

Brexit was a religion, a mass hysteria, form of rebellion, rabble roused.

I liken it to communism in the 1930s. 

Popular amongst many until reality bit.

And I liken Remain to the French Revolution where second confirmatory peoples' votes got bits chopped off publicly in a more or less permanent manner

Remainers weren't even as bad as communism, their authoritarian power lasted 3.5 years. Worst. Revolution. Ever.

Edited January 7 by Huggy

[pig]

1 hour ago, kzb said:

There's nothing complicated about it.

It's simply a feeling that we are better off having control over our own affairs.  Then there are the economics, why be stuck in a Soviet Union style protectionist bloc when we don't need to be.

These are the motivations.

"Soviet Union style protectionist bloc" 😂

If you were stuck in a fantasy then, you will still be stuck in a fantasy now...

[kzb]

3 hours ago, kzb said:

I would like to understand why an individual would obsessively put up perverse arguments in defence of Brexit.

They are only "perverse" on here, in the sense I am in a minority in this thread.

Yes there is an element in me that likes to go against the grain and challenge peoples' assumptions.  Particularly when I see a big open goal.  I don't like groupthink and have a very questioning nature.  Perhaps I'd do better if I just went along with things, but it is just the way I've always been.

Now onto the obsessive.  Surely I'm no more obsessive than other old hands on this thread, on the other side.  Persons such as yourself for example.  So you only have to look at yourself to understand that one.  Yes we are probably both a little more obsessive than we should be, but that goes for both of us.

 

[simon99]

8 hours ago, kzb said:

They are only "perverse" on here, in the sense I am in a minority in this thread.

Yes there is an element in me that likes to go against the grain and challenge peoples' assumptions.  Particularly when I see a big open goal.  I don't like groupthink and have a very questioning nature.  Perhaps I'd do better if I just went along with things, but it is just the way I've always been.

Now onto the obsessive.  Surely I'm no more obsessive than other old hands on this thread, on the other side.  Persons such as yourself for example.  So you only have to look at yourself to understand that one.  Yes we are probably both a little more obsessive than we should be, but that goes for both of us.

 

The only two polls which matter are the big ones, we had the referendum, then we had the GE a few years later which cemented the referendum. This forum is not representative of the real world, like much of social media. Look at the poll on the HPC Forum Census thread, over 30% claim to earn over 126k, almost half claim to earn over 80k, which is pretty astonishing really. 

Edited January 8 by simon99

[yodigo]

On 02/01/2024 at 07:30, dugsbody said:

The brexiters in parliament voted several times against deals that would have taken us out of the EU. You are aware of that, I'm positive, so I don't think I'm the one playing games.

That's actually true. But they saw May's deal as BRINO, rightly or wrongly.

[kzb]

3 hours ago, simon99 said:

The only two polls which matter are the big ones, we had the referendum, then we had the GE a few years later which cemented the referendum. This forum is not representative of the real world, like much of social media. Look at the poll on the HPC Forum Census thread, over 30% claim to earn over 126k, almost half claim to earn over 80k, which is pretty astonishing really. 

Well, on here currently, they seem to believe most people who voted Leave have changed their minds since.  

The survey presented as evidence of this is clearly just an exercise in bias, to arrive at a pre-ordained result.  Which they can then trumpet as if it means something.

Many times I think why am I bothering.  But I have this sense of duty that I have to highlight things like this for the rubbish they really are.  Otherwise, innocent readers might be mislead, particularly because there will often be no-one presenting the other side of the argument on here.  That is the "obsession" I have if anything.  The thread can be a completely one-sided echo chamber.

This after 7.5 years, and they say I am the obsessive one !